ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2022

I prefer the path taken by Plzen Zoo, which has a mix of ABC and XYZ species. I understand that many visitors may prefer to see 'popular species', but some of these species are often inactive on visits. Zoos should use audio-visual information promote lesser known species that can be just as interesting.
I totally agree. In fact, I travel to see rare species, so seeing typical species doesn't really fascinate me. But it seems a too big sacrifice for most zoos to give up keeping gorillas, lions or elephants, even if they can't give them a good life. I think that's because keeping lesser popular species will attract fewer visitors, just like that.
 
lets face it there would be some ready to make a huge amount of money building luxury units or homes for the elite in central London. I truly hope this wouldn’t happen

Well, that’s one use for the Mappins!

Sadly, I think time, mobility and current thinking are rapidly catching up with London. And it hasn’t helped itself with some decisions-you can only kick the can so far down the road.

Time: London is hamstrung by it’s listed buildings, thus exacerbating the limited space it already has (which it hasnt utilised as well as it should have). Also, casual visitors have an expectation of what the site should have, e.g elephants (which still get asked about to this day some 25 years since their departure!) based on visits they took with their parents, grandparents who remember rhino, elephants, polar bears etc.

Mobility: people are more than prepared to travel for a good day out, so once where Chester (for example) may have been seen as excessive, it no longer is. Good PR and prominent media presence (Secret Life of the Zoo) also help-easy publicity money can’t buy. This is where Whipsnade really should be stepping up.

Current Thinking: London is a Victorian zoo, and there’s only so long you can trade off of nostalgia, history etc. I’ve lost count on the number of times I’ve heard the words “Tired” or phrases like “Not what it once was” uttered. London have been playing catch up with places like Jersey and Chester for some 30+ years now!

Would I be upset if London closed? Yes I’d be devastated, initially. But if SIGNIFICANT investment is given to Whipsnade, I don’t think the casual visitor would bat an eyelid if it closed. I honestly think the situation at Bristol may well have given some food for thought. In the current climate, can any of us truly say they can see London Zoo in existence in 50+ years time?

It’s a difficult thing to think of but I’ve made peace with that thought, but again I sincerely hope I’m proved wrong.
 
I think the last few posts have missed the point raised further up this thread by redpanda36.

Under new legislation currently being introduced by the UK Government (called at the moment a 'consultatation' process), and publically supported by posters on here - it will not be legal for the public to enter an enclosure with Colobus.

The same goes for almost all Old World monkeys, such as macaques - so entry into Trentham Money Forest will be stopped too.

All these bigger Old World Monkeys, including Colobus, are potentially dangerous anyway. If the intention was for this to be a walkthough, it seems this new legislation may kill it before it even opens. So you'll just have the revamped Snowden aviary with the Colobus inside and the visitors outside?
 
Honestly (and this is my opinion) I can see a Bristol-type scenario happening with London, maybe within the next ten years...
.... some might even saying that the land which the zoo is currently sitting on is worth a truly massive amount of money and some could say it reaches a point that a Bristol type situation happens, lets face it there would be some ready to make a huge amount of money building luxury units or homes for the elite in central London.....
The Zoological Society of London, though, doesn't own the Regent's Park site so comparisons between London Zoo and Bristol Zoo, together with suggestions that London Zoo might adopt a "Bristol-type scenario" are not really valid.
 
All these bigger Old World Monkeys, including Colobus, are potentially dangerous anyway. If the intention was for this to be a walkthough, it seems this new legislation may kill it before it even opens. So you'll just have the revamped Snowden aviary with the Colobus inside and the visitors outside?

Absolutely.

Walk-through Macaque exhibits/zoos also look doomed in the UK. Something else we'll all have to visit Europe for...?
 
The Zoological Society of London, though, doesn't own the Regent's Park site so comparisons between London Zoo and Bristol Zoo, together with suggestions that London Zoo might adopt a "Bristol-type scenario" are not really valid.

Thankyou for the clarification Tim.

Could ZSL’s hand be forced though?
 
I think there is almost no possibility of turning over the London Zoo site to housing. Opposition would be huge, it may well be impossible in terms of planning permissions and the site would present enormous challenges.

London Zoo might not be going in the direction everyone on here would like but I don’t see it struggling for survival any time soon.

The nature of development can be debated but I don’t think anyone can credibly argue that there is any kind of stagnation.


Absolutely.

Walk-through Macaque exhibits/zoos also look doomed in the UK. Something else we'll all have to visit Europe for...?

The UK is part of Europe.
 
Would I be upset if London closed? Yes I’d be devastated, initially. But if SIGNIFICANT investment is given to Whipsnade, I don’t think the casual visitor would bat an eyelid if it closed. I honestly think the situation at Bristol may well have given some food for thought. In the current climate, can any of us truly say they can see London Zoo in existence in 50+ years time?

It’s a difficult thing to think of but I’ve made peace with that thought, but again I sincerely hope I’m proved wrong.

As just a general thought, I think the negativity has far out of proportion. While I agree with the disappointment with regards to the thinning of the collection and the loss of the aviaries on the other side of the canal, I don't think equating London to Bristol is in any way a logical step from this, not least since the two societies are nothing alike and the sites on which they operate are completely different. London Zoo is within a Royal Park - ZSL do not own the land in any way, and housing (at least not in the way people are envisaging) cannot be constructed there.

London isn't flagging financially. ZSL actually had a net profit across 2020-21 of 1.3 million, despite that year being the toughest for zoos around the globe ever in terms of the obstacles they had to overcome. The situation is not in any way similar to that in which Bristol found itself having to close earlier this year, other than that there is a 'back-up' collection in the outskirts.

For the management, there is no problem. They were profitable in 20-21 coming off a net deficit in 19-20, especially impressive given they lost out on over 700,000 visitors due to the virus. In fact had the zoo been open throughout, attendance would likely have been around 1.3 million, a record. From a business point of view, the zoo has been nothing but successful over the past year or so given the situation at hand. From a research point of view, the zoo has been nothing but successful. From a conservation point of view, the zoo has been nothing but successful. There is absolutely nothing indicating the zoo is flagging financially or in terms of conservation output, so the comparisons to Bristol are entirely unfounded.

With regards to the post quoted above, what you say is objectively wrong. Whipsnade receives very, very few visits from tourists. Almost nil. And I'd be very inclined to say that, despite having no figures to back me up, the majority of visitors to London Zoo do not live in London. The zoos are polar opposites in terms of where the visitors come from (NB: this is not the case in Bristol, where neither the zoo nor WP get many foreign visitors). So claiming that visitors would not bat an eyelid is just not true. Whipsnade is hellish to get to by public transport - even were the zoo to close (not an eventuality there is any reason in considering anyway) Whipsnade's visitation would hardly increase, and the input of money from tourism into ZSL would all but vanish.

As for your question on whether people see London Zoo still existing in 50 years' time: absolutely. If you think London is struggling financially, read their statements - they tell the opposite story. A decrease in collection size possibly correlates vaguely with financial troubles generally speaking, but that isn't the case here.

Just to be clear, I don't like the direction London is going in. I think there is masses of wasted space and that management have made poor decisions in the past. But that doesn't mean they're struggling. And people saying they're going to close because the owl aviaries are no longer there are getting vastly carried away.
 
I've said it before and don't want to be a killjoy, but I don't think this will be quite the exhibit being hoped for. I have seen Colobus groups at many zoos- a lot of the time they spend being inactive, often huddled together in a group high up & resting, while any windy or bad weather will send them indoors- if they are allowed the access. So periods of classic activity- jumping/leaping/feeding etc, may well be very limited I fear.

I do agree especially with the current group. Although next generations born within the walk through will likely be more bold and adventurous, from growing up in that environment rather than a traditional enclosure, as seen before with other primate walk through.

Current plan is the group of colobus move at the end of this month to the Showdon to allow for a 2-3 month settling in period. Initially after opening of the Snowdon there will be no other enclosures on the North Bank with the path across not fully open until later on.
 
Honestly (and this is my opinion) I can see a Bristol-type scenario happening with London, maybe within the next ten years. Certainly not in the short term but I don’t see any long term vision, at either ZSL site!

I am happy to be proved wrong of course!

A new "master plan" for both sites will be available soon, currently being shared with staff. I am sure fellows and patrons will see it soon after. Its certainly visionary and I am sure the agency they got involved did well out of the commission, but maybe didn't quite know the limitations of London Zoo :) Popcorn at the ready for the thread on ZooChat.
 
The following species are found at both ZSL sites, according to ZTL:
Dyeing dart frog, Titicaca water frog
Annam leaf turtle, Chinese crocodile lizard, corn snake, McCord's snake-necked turtle, Williamm's electric blue gecko
African sacred ibis, common barn owl, common emu, Congo grey parrot, crested partridge, Edwards's pheasant, Emei Shan liochichla, great white pelican, hyacinth macaw, marbled teal, orange-headed ground thrush, purple glossy starling, red-crested turaco, red-tailed laughing thrush, silver-eared mesia, southern Sulawesi hornbill, Sumatran laughing thrush, wrinkled hornbill
African wild dog, Asian small-clawed otter, Bolivian squirrel monkey, giraffe, lion, meerkat, pygmy hippopotamus, Reeves' muntjac, red-necked wallaby, ring-tailed lemur, tiger

Domestic animals and breeding forms: Alpaca, Bactrian camel, domestic ferret, domestic rabbit, West African pygmy goat
 
The UK is part of Europe.

I suppose that depends on how you define 'Europe'? I tried to edit the post to insert 'the mainland of' in front of the word, but I had been timed out.
I find it sad that both new exhibits and whole zoos will be closed by the UK Government, and also sad that this is the the only comment the subject receives on here.
I expected to find a whole section discussing something so important.
 
I do agree especially with the current group. Although next generations born within the walk through will likely be more bold and adventurous, from growing up in that environment rather than a traditional enclosure, as seen before with other primate walk through.

Current plan is the group of colobus move at the end of this month to the Showdon to allow for a 2-3 month settling in period. Initially after opening of the Snowdon there will be no other enclosures on the North Bank with the path across not fully open until later on.

How can you keep calling it a walk-through, when ALL public contact with Category 1 animals (including, hand-feeding through the wire) is to be banned by the Government?
 
Forgive my ignorance but what category do lemurs come under?
All lemurs are Category 2, along with Sakis, Titis, Squirrel Monkeys and 'below' - all other New World monkeys (Capuchin, Howler 'up) and ALL Old World monkeys (except Talapoin) are Category 1.
 
How can you keep calling it a walk-through, when ALL public contact with Category 1 animals (including, hand-feeding through the wire) is to be banned by the Government?

To be fair I am just referring to it as a walk through as that is how it will be marketed/promoted. Based on the plans it is a "protected walk through" in that direct contact will not be possible. If that fails any future law then I wouldn't know (and no one will for certain until when/if it becomes law).
 
To be fair I am just referring to it as a walk through as that is how it will be marketed/promoted. Based on the plans it is a "protected walk through" in that direct contact will not be possible. If that fails any future law then I wouldn't know (and no one will for certain until when/if it becomes law).
The proposals are that ALL contact with category 1 animals will be prohibited even escorted, protected, feeding by the public from outside the enclosure, but through the wire, bars or mesh. No dispensation for protection is mentioned.
 
I suppose that depends on how you define 'Europe'? I tried to edit the post to insert 'the mainland of' in front of the word, but I had been timed out.
I find it sad that both new exhibits and whole zoos will be closed by the UK Government, and also sad that this is the the only comment the subject receives on here.
I expected to find a whole section discussing something so important.

Well by whatever definition you chose to use the UK is part of Europe. It isn’t in North America or Africa and it isn’t its own continent despite what some of its inhabitants might think.

On the subject of walk-throughs, I am not especially concerned by this legislation (I don’t know of it’s a risk status or likelihood of becoming law) and am rather wary of having larger monkeys in walk-through enclosures.
 
Well by whatever definition you chose to use the UK is part of Europe. It isn’t in North America or Africa and it isn’t its own continent despite what some of its inhabitants might think.

On the subject of walk-throughs, I am not especially concerned by this legislation (I don’t know of it’s a risk status or likelihood of becoming law) and am rather wary of having larger monkeys in walk-through enclosures.

As I said, I attempted to clarify it for you, but was out of time for the edit. Thank you very much for pointing out that the UK is not part of North America or Africa; I might have missed that.

I was not supporting such exhibits as is/was/might-be proposed at London, or used at Trentham and other European zoos not controlled by the UK Government; merely echoing the question asked by redpanda36 and subsequently rather buried.

The proposals are indeed being taken very seriously - at some levels at least.
 
I suppose that depends on how you define 'Europe'? I tried to edit the post to insert 'the mainland of' in front of the word, but I had been timed out.
I find it sad that both new exhibits and whole zoos will be closed by the UK Government, and also sad that this is the the only comment the subject receives on here.
I expected to find a whole section discussing something so important.

What whole zoos would be closed by the legislation? Can’t say I agree with it and frankly I detest the government itself but with the exception of walkthroughs there’s nothing in it that suggests the U.K. government intends to close all zoos.
 
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