ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2024

[tennisfan]

At the time this was one statement in support of the new facility.

"The existing tortoise facility, whilst not at the end of its life, is an example of where research and husbandry have moved and evolved. The best practice now for keeping these animals is within an indoor climate controlled facility that allows better all year round husbandry of the animals which is something that the current current facility cannot provide. Nor can it be modified or extended in its current location."

 

[Kalaw]

Does anybody know why/if there was a reason for the tortoises to move to their upgraded enclosure? And does anyone know if they have outdoor access in their current enclosure?

Part of the reason was the departure of the zoo’s male to Crocodiles of the World, where, after failing to breed at London for some time, he immediately became responsible for a UK first breeding of the species. The main goal with this new enclosure is to offer a ‘retirement home’ for the remaining three females - not entirely sure why this merited an entirely new exhibit, but I suspect it is more that it has been on the cards for some time, and that not having to worry about the extra space and separation options that a male would demand made it a more realistic option.

 

[Panthera1981]

Glad to hear the Mountain Chicken frogs are finally on show. They need all the attention they can get: a 2023 survey found only 21 wild individuals, down from a previous estimate of 100 in 2017

 

[Reptile House]

Can the new enclosure not share with any other animal?

 

[Kalaw]

Glad to hear the Mountain Chicken frogs are finally on show. They need all the attention they can get: a 2023 survey found only 21 wild individuals, down from a previous estimate of 100 in 2017

I agree thoroughly with this statement - not only are they onshow, but they have very detailed signage detailing their conservation urgency, and seem to be very popular among visitors. A combination of their large size and comical name proved to be very amusing for most spectators.

Can the new enclosure not share with any other animal?

It certainly can, and indeed I would love to see London try this - for example with some smaller free-flying birds, who would also no doubt appreciate the heat of the house. The only issue here being that the scarcity of Galapagos birds in captivity meant that any free-fliers would through geographical accuracy out the window.

 

[oflory]

I agree thoroughly with this statement - not only are they onshow, but they have very detailed signage detailing their conservation urgency, and seem to be very popular among visitors. A combination of their large size and comical name proved to be very amusing for most spectators.It certainly can, and indeed I would love to see London try this - for example with some smaller free-flying birds, who would also no doubt appreciate the heat of the house. The only issue here being that the scarcity of Galapagos birds in captivity meant that any free-fliers would through geographical accuracy out the window.

I would love to see free flying birds too, it feels really empty as a building currently.

I'd suggest that they could do something clever with birds from around the world with different beak shapes and other adaptations and use them as an illustration of Darwin/Voyage of Beagle etc...

 

[Gabriel Furr]

Part of the reason was the departure of the zoo’s male to Crocodiles of the World, where, after failing to breed at London for some time, he immediately became responsible for a UK first breeding of the species. The main goal with this new enclosure is to offer a ‘retirement home’ for the remaining three females - not entirely sure why this merited an entirely new exhibit, but I suspect it is more that it has been on the cards for some time, and that not having to worry about the extra space and separation options that a male would demand made it a more realistic option.

I do think their enclosure needed an upgrade, especially when it comes to an indoor area. I think the new facility is beautiful and a good upgrade for them but it's a shame they don't have outdoor access

 

[Laboratory 7]

I do think their enclosure needed an upgrade, especially when it comes to an indoor area. I think the new facility is beautiful and a good upgrade for them but it's a shame they don't have outdoor access

Why when giving them outdoor access would comprise their health because the UK is too cool and not humid enough for them, but you obviously seem to think different so I might have got the wrong end of the stick of the new husbandry guidelines for the species.

 

[Tim Brown]

Ah yes...I remember in 1870 when it was too cold in London to ever let monkeys go outdoors I`m sure the science on the matter of giant tortoises in northern climes is well investigated and researched. ZSL would not have taken the decision otherwise..but did the same principles also mention enclosure size I wonder? And where does it leave Komodo Dragons ? I recently saw these reptiles outdoors at Faunia in Madrid - however,I doubt that the Madrid climate replicates that of Indonesia (in fact it doesnt). Yet these animals had been given a choice (indoors or outside) and quite evidently opted for the latter.

 

[Tim Brown]

Personally...given the non-breeding situation of the giant tortoises at ZSL I would have left them in the former enclosure (they were hardly suffering lets be honest) and made a dedicated amphibian house instead of a giant tortoise house. I remember the two-day conference about the Amphibian Ark at ZSL where it was said that a mixture of reptiles and amphibians in one house was potentially dangerous for critically endangered amphibians due to disease concerns. Yet that is exactly what has happened.

 

[Gabriel Furr]

Why when giving them outdoor access would comprise their health because the UK is too cool and not humid enough for them, but you obviously seem to think different so I might have got the wrong end of the stick of the new husbandry guidelines for the species.

Most zoos that have giant tortoises in the UK give them outdoor access, it's the best way for them to get uv in the summer and eat some natural grass. Some zoos have outdoor areas for other reptiles like komodos

 

[Kalaw]

Most zoos that have giant tortoises in the UK give them outdoor access, it's the best way for them to get uv in the summer and eat some natural grass. Some zoos have outdoor areas for other reptiles like komodos

Regarding the UV exposure, the roof of ‘Giants of the Galapgos’ lets light in so I hardly see this being an issue. The grass is a valid point, but I assume part of it comes down to the individuals in question - I visited London Zoo fifteen or so times before the tortoises moved to their new enclosure, and I believe I saw them use the outdoor area a grand total of one time. You also mention Komodos, which London does provide outdoor access, but on 22 visits to the collection, with the zoo housing at least one Komodo on all but one of those visits, I have never seen them use this outdoor space once. Perhaps the zoo decided that outdoor access would be wasted on them, and given the fact that, as mentioned, the temperature within the House replicates that of their natural environment far better than most zoos and certainly far better than their former enclosure, I doubt the tortoises even notice.

 

[Lafone]

Tortoises always seem to behave pretty sensibly heading outdoors if they have the space when it suits when the weather is nicer - CWP and Hamerton’s spring to mind - or on colder days found under their lamps etc.

If they have a good area to roam about in (and the texture underfoot is right) and they have enough food and heat and light I doubt they notice they are indoors though the amount of time some spend out at some places indicates at least a few of them quite like it.

I’ve rarely seen CWPs indoors once the Spring comes along. I’m sure CWP have as much welfare in mind as London and both sets of tortoises will be getting on just as well despite the difference in holding.

 

[Reptile House]

They could’ve put them in the rainforest exhibit.

Then used that space to built a bigger and better reptile house with many more species. Instead of the disaster that has just opened.

 

[dillotest0]

They could’ve put them in the rainforest exhibit.

From what I understand giant tortoises, which require unobstructed land to move around much, aren't particular rainforest denizens...

 

[ajmcwhipsnade]

They could’ve put them in the rainforest exhibit.

Then used that space to built a bigger and better reptile house with many more species. Instead of the disaster that has just opened.

Again, we must have very different definitions!

 

[cornu aspersum]

They could’ve put them in the rainforest exhibit.

Then used that space to built a bigger and better reptile house with many more species. Instead of the disaster that has just opened.

I could be wrong, but won't the species count be the same regardless of where the reptile house is?

 

[Kalaw]

They could’ve put them in the rainforest exhibit.

Then used that space to built a bigger and better reptile house with many more species. Instead of the disaster that has just opened.

The new Giant Tortoise house is considerably larger than the ground portion of Rainforest Life, which in my opinion would be far too small for three giant tortoises. Additionally, as mentioned upthread, the plants which the other species in that building so love would not last long!

Would you care to explain why you actually don’t like SLoRA? In your initial post, you went from praising the quality of the King Cobra enclosure and how it is nice to see certain species, to labelling it as ‘dreadful’ and declaring that ‘the best part is the exit sign,’ with no real explanation as to why other than that you found it difficult to locate the animals (which is odd, partly as I saw every species in the building barring the geckos, and partly as surely offering retreats and areas to hide from public view is part the criteria of a good zoo exhibit) and that there weren’t enough species in there (which is again odd, as it is surely the largest reptile house in the country by species numbers - I definitely agree that it would be nice to have more species but as it is now it is hardly a ‘disaster’ or ‘dreadful’). At the moment, it really does seem that you are, as @Maguari said, criticising something for the sake of criticising something.

 

[Maguari]

For me it matters because getting things right is important, these days more than ever when so many in public life have such a casual relationship with the truth.

I feel that accuracy and education should permeate everything the world’s oldest scientific zoo does. An organisation’s values and mission should be reflected in all forms of communication and publications.

This reflects a lack of attention to detail and a lack of scientific rigour.

In this case it particularly bothers me because this isn’t a generic bird symbol, it’s a very specific bird with a specific conservation story.

And the fact that this crested ibis is so iconic and so limited in both range and captive holdings makes it all the more inappropriate to have on the map when a completely different species is held.

To me it’s like replacing the black and white colobus with a golden snub-nosed monkey icon and saying “well it’s still a monkey”.

So whilst I respect, if don’t entirely understand, why some might find it an acceptable error, I still find it inexcusable that this error occurred.

EDIT: I’m not a habitual ZSL-basher and welcome lots of the recent progress but for me this stands out as being an unacceptable and sloppy error which someone really should have picked up on.

I think the wording I would use is 'forgivable error', rather than 'acceptable'. I can see how it happened, and I can well imagine that the zoo's marketing team wouldn't necessarily spot it until it was too late to easily change it. Unfortunately any organisation of sufficient size is more or less required to employ people who don't have the organisation's main concerns as their personal interest. In this case, possibly people who have barely heard of an ibis, let alone two species of crested ibis and their differences. And I do think it's different to the intentionally misleading statements we see so many of!

And while I get your monkey example, the fact remains that for 95% or more of the zoo's visitors, as long as there were a monkey there it probably really wouldn't matter which species was shown. Though such a swap would cause chaos on here..!

Maybe it'll get fixed next time the map is updated. I hope so.

 

[Tetradactyla]

If anyone is interested, the Journal of Zoological and Botanical Gardens published a paper looking at the possible benefits that the new Galapagos tortoise house has had on ZSL's group, suggesting that behavioral concerns may have been a factor in the decision to move them:

An Improvement in Enclosure Design Can Positively Impact Welfare, Reduce Aggressiveness and Stabilise Hierarchy in Captive Galapagos Giant Tortoises

"Agonistic behaviour is expected in both wild and captive Galapagos tortoises, but is most often observed between males, at low frequency (<1% of the time), and to express dominance. Conversely, the hyperaggressive animals at ZSL were the females—they engaged in agonistic behaviours almost four times more often than is expected in males."

The authors conclude that having a larger space has, in fact, lessened the aggressive encounters, simply by reducing the amount of time the tortoises spend in proximity to each other. This would line up with the fact that the tortoises have always been very spread out throughout the new house whenever I've visited - as opposed to in the old "Giants and Dragons" exhibit, where they tended to be shoulder-to-shoulder in the indoor area (nearly) every time I saw them.