ZSL Whipsnade Zoo ZSL Whipsnade Zoo 2021

Pertinax said:
I would certainly agree with that part...
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I mean its a common constructive criticism on this site when it comes to ZSL and the zoos that they seem to have lost a viable vision / narrative of the future and sleep walking.

Not counting the excellent conservation work they do with the EDGE species and other programmes (which I think are excellent) it seems that it has become an organization that has become trapped in the past and perhaps sunk by a technocracy of "bull **** jobs" as the late and great David Graeber used to say about this kind of institutional dead weight.

I'm a conservationist first and foremost and so as I've said I really admire their programmes and work with in-situ conservation and training conservationists but that is no valid reason in my opinion for the zoos to be neglected.

Perhaps it has been in a terminal decline for a long time though, I mean didn't Desmond Morris have trouble when he tried to reform the zoo and promote innovation back in the 60's ?
 
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FBBird said:
Absolutely. The langur is a higher conservation priority.
I just like Blackbuck, which can be used to tell a story about how a once very abundant species is now sadly reduced. And they’re extremely pretty.
Also, I’m sure they could find room for both.
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Oh yes I agree and not only that but I believe that a major theme of Whipsnade is Asiatic hoofstock so yes it is a shame.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
I mean its a common constructive criticism on this site when it comes to ZSL and the zoos that they seem to have lost a viable vision / narrative of the future and sleep walking.

Not counting the excellent conservation work they do with the EDGE species and other programmes (which I think are excellent) it seems that it has become an organization that has become trapped in the past and perhaps sunk by a technocracy of "bull **** jobs" as the late and great David Graeber used to say about this kind of institutional dead weight.

I'm a conservationist first and foremost and so as I've said I really admire their programmes and work with in-situ conservation and training conservationists but that is no valid reason in my opinion for the zoos to be neglected.

Perhaps it has been in a terminal decline for a long time though, I mean didn't Desmond Morris have trouble when he tried to reform the zoo and promote innovation back in the 60's ?
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I believe you correct, It would be a fair living for a few in the management stream. Some perhaps not really too interested in what they do and perhaps not the best people for those jobs. As has been stated before by some of the long term visitors its been a big decline over the years and it appears to be speeding up, I use to really like this zoo but just wonder now how far it slide down hill from here?
 
It's a shame whenever the zsl posts get added to it so often turns to a zsl bashing. I've been going to whipsnade for over 30 years so yes I know it's not at its best now, but really do we have talk about its decline all the time.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Oh yes I agree and not only that but I believe that a major theme of Whipsnade is Asiatic hoofstock so yes it is a shame.
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A few years ago they seemed to have a stab at 'refreshing' some of the hoofstock that had disappeared- bringing in Thomson's Gazelle, Impala, Nilgai, fresh Blackbuck females for the lone male of their previous stock and maybe another species I've omitted? While the Nilgai have prospered, the Tommies failed, I don't know if there are still any Impala(?)left, and the five female blackbuck have remained male-less for several years since the last old male died.
 
I think management is losing it: You have a massive outlay enabling Whipsnade to do what London ZSL Regent's Park cannot do and maintain large herds of ungulates in a grassland hilly setting. All Whipsnade seems to be doing is copying the curatorial behaviours from ZSL central.

What is the long term plan, one wonders? Is there a plan, one wonders?
 
Pertinax said:
A few years ago they seemed to have a stab at 'refreshing' some of the hoofstock that had disappeared- bringing in Thomson's Gazelle, Impala, Nilgai, fresh Blackbuck females for the lone male of their previous stock and maybe another species I've omitted? While the Nilgai have prospered, the Tommies failed, I don't know if there are still any Impala(?)left, and the five female blackbuck have remained male-less for several years since the last old male died.
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I am surprised the Tommies failed, You might remember back in the 70s they had quite a large herd of them all of them home bred!
 
pipaluk said:
They moved there from London when the new lion exhibit was being built, never to return.
They were held behind the old kudu/ impala paddock at one point, opposite side of road from the bottom hippo pool. Not sure if that's where they are now though
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Interesting, I never knew there was an off-show area there.

For anyone whose interested, while checking on Google Maps for this, I noticed an odd looking building near there, which upon research I found was once a summer home for Lubetkin that he designed himself. Must have been a pretty great place to stay back then, not sure what would have been in the Kudu paddock at the time but I’m sure the private views would of been awesome!
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
I think management is losing it: You have a massive outlay enabling Whipsnade to do what London ZSL Regent's Park cannot do and maintain large herds of ungulates in a grassland hilly setting. All Whipsnade seems to be doing is copying the curatorial behaviours from ZSL central.

What is the long term plan, one wonders? Is there a plan, one wonders?
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Honestly I don't think there is a plan, it is just sleepwalking.

Zorro said:
I believe you correct, It would be a fair living for a few in the management stream. Some perhaps not really too interested in what they do and perhaps not the best people for those jobs. As has been stated before by some of the long term visitors its been a big decline over the years and it appears to be speeding up, I use to really like this zoo but just wonder now how far it slide down hill from here?
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I agree, a huge administrative bloat and many "bull **** jobs" , but it would appear to be quite a lucrative profession for those who manage to make it into the rarified heights of the organization.

Somewhere on the forum someone posted how much some of these people are being paid and it is quite shocking actually and sort of reminds me of the kind of salaries that you see with vice chancellors and senior managers at universities (while the keepers probably barely survive on their wages).

Pertinax said:
A few years ago they seemed to have a stab at 'refreshing' some of the hoofstock that had disappeared- bringing in Thomson's Gazelle, Impala, Nilgai, fresh Blackbuck females for the lone male of their previous stock and maybe another species I've omitted? While the Nilgai have prospered, the Tommies failed, I don't know if there are still any Impala(?)left, and the five female blackbuck have remained male-less for several years since the last old male died.
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I wonder why they have these periodical returns to focusing on the collection or what prompts them ?
 
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sparkes12 said:
It's a shame whenever the zsl posts get added to it so often turns to a zsl bashing. I've been going to whipsnade for over 30 years so yes I know it's not at its best now, but really do we have talk about its decline all the time.
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Sorry about that, guilty as charged of "ZSL bashing".

But I think it is worth mentioning that those of us who do "bash" ZSL do so constructively and because we know that the organization is capable of so much more.
 
Tim May said:
Indeed Whipsnade had a thriving group of Thomson's gazelles from the 1950s until the 1990s; I remember when the herd numbered more than twenty individuals.
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I remember them well, and their paddock, but not the exact location though it was somewhere near the Giraffe area- is it still there now in some form?
 
Pertinax said:
I remember them well, and their paddock, but not the exact location though it was somewhere near the Giraffe area- is it still there now in some form?
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Ah yes I remember seeing the Thomson's Gazelle in 2014 at the hardstanding behind the Bongo House
 
Pertinax said:
I remember them well, and their paddock, but not the exact location though it was somewhere near the Giraffe area- is it still there now in some form?
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If you walk down the road "Miss Joan's Ride" (named in memory of Joan Procter, ZSL's Curator of Reptiles) towards the Whipsnade Downs, with the Giraffe Paddock on your right, then the Thomson's gazelles were just past the giraffes, in one of the enclosures on the opposite side of the road.
Jedd Cullinan said:
Ah yes I remember seeing the Thomson's Gazelle in 2014 at the hardstanding behind the Bongo House
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That's right. That's where the most recent Thomson's gazelle were housed
 
ajmcwhipsnade said:
According to the latest issue of Wild About, the Sulawesi Macaques are moving from London to Whipsnade. Really excited about that :)
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This is interesting. Wonder where they will be put? Are the Macaques hardy enough for Whipsnade?
 
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