ZSL Whipsnade Zoo ZSL Whipsnade Zoo 2021

Pertinax said:
London did have Owl-faced monkeys in the 1990's- at that time the Sobell pavilions exhibited a much more comprehensive display from all the main Primate groups- macaque, guenon, baboon etc. in about eight to a dozen enclosures in seperate 'blocks'. Sadly the building of Gorilla Kingdom reduced the available monkey enclosures to around four, so they are compromised for space now. Apart from the modernised(outside) Mangabey area, the other enclosures are now very dated. Its not a very good situation overall. But I don't think one can expect any more exhibits, given the general malaise there.
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I remember visiting for the first time in the 1990's (about 1997 or 1998) and seeing the old Sobell pavilion and I think I remember seeing the owl monkeys during this time.

I don't remember having seen any baboons at all though.

What I definitely remember having seen were the Sulawesi macaques, the Diana monkeys, the Hanuman langurs, some chimpanzees (which presumably went to Whipsnade?) and gorillas too (both in old school enclosures with hay littering the floor and with bamboo climbing structures).
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
I don't remember having seen any baboons at all though.
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By baboon I was referring to Mandrills*- they had a good group at the time. There was also a large group of Pig-tailed Macaque* also South American spider monkey- I can't remember the rest now. But the Owl-faced numbered around 4- a pair plus offspring. The main all female group of Chimpanzees went to Dudley and the final few they kept were elderly- I think the last two (Jonny and Koko) joined the small group at Whipsnade when London discontinued them. They escaped later on and Jonny had to be shot as he went on a rampage and was leaving the park grounds. Koko was led back. It was never revealed how they had escaped.

* Both these groups were derived from stock held in the old Monkey House which pre-dated the Sobell Pavilions-most of the other singles & pairs housed in it never made the cut in the transfer, but in the case of the Mandrills a sibling pair were the founders while outside blood was later added by exchange with the small Southport Zoo in Lancashire.. The PT Macaques were originally a group of 2.3. Other groups were obtained from elsewhere to fill the other Sobell cages.
 
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pipaluk said:
The only possibility I can think of is building a house and bridge onto the Squirrel monkey island. I really hope they aren't thinking of the Chimp or Sloth Bear enclosures, they aren't a big enough animal and will be too far from the visitors. I really hope nothing will leave, but don't see where the money will come from for a new enclosure, so this may not be good news at all!!
Sea Lion exhibit?
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The Sloth bear paddock makes sense considering they could “retire” Colombo to the neighbouring off-show paddock that previously held his mother, Lanka, when the bears arrived from London. I’d imagine he’s quite elderly now and not quite as “showy.” Quite right, it’s a large area for the macaques but I doubt ZSL will replace the Sloth bears-that’s what you get for procuring Sri Lankan individuals!:rolleyes:

The macaques may be too clever for Squirrel Monkey island but the sealion area is an interesting option.
 
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Panthera1981 said:
The Sloth bear paddock makes sense considering they could “retire” Colombo to the neighbouring off-show paddock that previously held his mother, Lanka, when the bears arrived from London. I’d imagine he’s quite elderly now and not quite as “showy.” Quite right, it’s a large area for the macaques but I doubt ZSL will replace the Sloth bears-that’s what you get for procuring Sri Lankan individuals!:rolleyes:

The macaques may be too clever for Squirrel Monkey island but the sealion area is an interesting option.
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There's a nice little island in the centre of the park that Chimps once used and sealions more recently. It would need a house and bridge though. But its more to the scale of their size...
 
Pertinax said:
There's a nice little island in the centre of the park that Chimps once used and sealions more recently. It would need a house and bridge though. But its more to the scale of their size...
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The island in question currently houses otters and is probably too small in its current format. However I’ve always wondered if it was feasible to connect this exhibit (via overhead ropes/tunnels) together to the Red panda exhibit and Squirrel monkey island to create one “super enclosure.” This would mean sacrificing the Red pandas, but imagine the possibilities!

There is, of course, another paddock that could house the macaques which is of good size. It’s a triangular-shaped area next door to the Red-crowned cranes facing out towards the cafe and tigers. It did house Hog deer (which I’ve never seen in all my visits!)
 
Pertinax said:
A few years ago they seemed to have a stab at 'refreshing' some of the hoofstock that had disappeared- bringing in Thomson's Gazelle, Impala, Nilgai, fresh Blackbuck females for the lone male of their previous stock and maybe another species I've omitted? While the Nilgai have prospered, the Tommies failed, I don't know if there are still any Impala(?)left, and the five female blackbuck have remained male-less for several years since the last old male died.
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@Pertinax . As a long term visitor would you have any idea as to why the Thompson's Gazelle had failed there when one considers there outstanding breeding record and maintenance for the species for decades? :confused:
 
Zorro said:
@Pertinax . As a long term visitor would you have any idea as to why the Thompson's Gazelle had failed there when one considers there outstanding breeding record and maintenance for the species for decades? :confused:
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The gazelles failed because the zoo failed the gazelles!

Upon their arrival, they were quarantined in the Bongo stables, with the eventual plan to have both species share the paddock. However, the appropriate improvements never materialised as the zoo purged their in-house ground staff and outsourced to agency who had other plans. Thus, the thommies never made it off their hardstanding.

A damn shame, and waste imho as for the short time they were there they did successfully breed.
 
Panthera1981 said:
The gazelles failed because the zoo failed the gazelles!

Upon their arrival, they were quarantined in the Bongo stables, with the eventual plan to have both species share the paddock. However, the appropriate improvements never materialised as the zoo purged their in-house ground staff and outsourced to agency who had other plans. Thus, the thommies never made it off their hardstanding.

A damn shame, and waste imho as for the short time they were there they did successfully breed.
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And there's one of the key factors why some zoos today are failing, The outsourcing to outsiders. The management who would be making these blunders are likely to still be there ready to make more of the same mistakes. With the mindset of LZS its going to take a long time if at all before there's any real change for the better!
 
Pertinax said:
By baboon I was referring to Mandrills*- they had a good group at the time. There was also a large group of Pig-tailed Macaque* also South American spider monkey- I can't remember the rest now. But the Owl-faced numbered around 4- a pair plus offspring. The main all female group of Chimpanzees went to Dudley and the final few they kept were elderly- I think the last two (Jonny and Koko) joined the small group at Whipsnade when London discontinued them. They escaped later on and Jonny had to be shot as he went on a rampage and was leaving the park grounds. Koko was led back. It was never revealed how they had escaped.

* Both these groups were derived from stock held in the old Monkey House which pre-dated the Sobell Pavilions-most of the other singles & pairs housed in it never made the cut in the transfer, but in the case of the Mandrills a sibling pair were the founders while outside blood was later added by exchange with the small Southport Zoo in Lancashire.. The PT Macaques were originally a group of 2.3. Other groups were obtained from elsewhere to fill the other Sobell cages.
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I don't remember the mandrills being there, but it was a long time ago and I only have faint memories anyway.

I do remember the spider monkeys, these were red faced black spider monkeys and I saw a pair were still there outside the Clore when I visited in 2019.

Yes, these two chimps would have been the ones that I saw and I do remember that they looked like elderly animals. What a shame that the male was shot !
 
Strix said:
I hope they move their diana monkeys in there and add more individuals to the group, because their current enclosure is too small and would fit better as an aviary or enclosure for small mammals.
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Yes, I would agree with you there, it did look rather small and I'm sure they would appreciate having more space (though they looked like they were quite elderly animals to me).
 
Strix said:
I hope they move their diana monkeys in there and add more individuals to the group, because their current enclosure is too small and would fit better as an aviary or enclosure for small mammals.
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I think London should focus on the Dianas more as there are very few groups in the UK now and they are only currently breeding at Twycross, while Port Lympne are evidently phasing them out with only one(?) left. But it would mean bringing in additional animals .
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
I don't remember the mandrills being there, but it was a long time ago and I only have faint memories anyway.
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In the Sobells the Mandrills occupied one of the two longer parallel cages which were on the site of what is now the more modern Mangabey outdoor enclosure. Their indoor area faced the main lawn.

Another species they kept at the time was Sooty Mangabey.
 
Pertinax said:
I think London should focus on the Dianas more as there are very few groups in the UK now and they are only currently breeding at Twycross, while Port Lympne are evidently phasing them out with only one(?) left. But it would mean bringing in additional animals .
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I agree, but what are the chances of them doing that ?

As I stated before I don't really see any kind of long-term thinking when it comes to ZSL and much of its mammal collection (I think there is when it comes to ex-situ of its amphibians and reptiles though) so I think it is likely that the Dianas will just be phased out eventually.

Pertinax said:
In the Sobells the Mandrills occupied one of the two longer parallel cages which were on the site of what is now the more modern Mangabey outdoor enclosure. Their indoor area faced the main lawn.

Another species they kept at the time was Sooty Mangabey.
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I can't remember having seen mandrills or sooty mangabeys, but I think I remember one of those longer parallel enclosures holding Sulawesi macaques.
 
Mattaki said:
Fantastic replacement for the sea lions ;):p
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Combine this with Crazy Golf and the zoo’s quids in!:p

Despite what some of us may think about them, Dinos bring in footfall and most importantly money! Whether these were planned for this year or not, they could prove to be a financial winner.

Separately, the zoo states that it’s macaque group will be one of the largest in the UK. I’m assuming the current largest group is Chester?
 
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