Lafone
Well-Known Member
No, 4 new males plus the existing one.
Of the now 5, 4 are staying, 1 is on loan.
It will depend on whether there’s a natural alpha or maybe they will split into this and another location if they onboard some hens.
ZSL Whipsnade Zoo ZSL Whipsnade Zoo News 2022
- Thread starter Lafone
- Start date
No, 4 new males plus the existing one.
Of the now 5, 4 are staying, 1 is on loan.
It will depend on whether there’s a natural alpha or maybe they will split into this and another location if they onboard some hens.
You don’t often see big groups of Ostrich so hopefully the future will be interesting!
Hopefully something else gets added too
Addax would be cool but that was just speculation
I do wonder if Tahli ( woeburn) would ever be allowed to leave and join whipsnade… as she is 9 this year. Currently with her mum dad and 2 aunts so can’t breed from her dad .. and it’s unlikely now they will have another baby at woeburn, so she is genetically valuable . Would she be accepted into the whipsnade herd.. like Karishma was many years ago…
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
I highly doubt Tarli would be sent to Whipsnade, and even if she did she would not alone she would be sent along side her mother Damini as zoos will send matrilineal lines to other zoos.
One wonders though why the move is not expedited
I happen to agree it’s unlikely woeburn will give up two elephants leaving 2 females and a male .. but for the best of Tarli I hope they consider her reproductive years are now and she can’t stay where she is.. unless they go down the AI route again!!
Also, the risk of bringing in new blood is that the zoo then have a potential outcome of two opposing groups/individuals who don’t get on re. Mya and Kaylee. However, I don’t know the Woburn character dynamic.
Having said that, with the Karishma situation and Kaylee and Lucha essentially retired, it might have to be a risk worth taking. Hopefully Donna’s labour won’t be as traumatic as the last, but your hedging your bets on the longevity of this group on this and another young cow (Elizabeth) who’s years away from breeding.
Having said that, with the Karishma situation and Kaylee and Lucha essentially retired, it might have to be a risk worth taking. Hopefully Donna’s labour won’t be as traumatic as the last, but your hedging your bets on the longevity of this group on this and another young cow (Elizabeth) who’s years away from breeding.
If sent on her own, I’d be optimistic of her chances of being accepted into the herd. She’d be subordinate to the adult cows, which was the point of contention in Whipsnade’s herd when they previously tried to integrate mature cows who competed for dominance.
However, to follow husbandry guidelines for this species which advise against breaking up matrilineal lines, she’d likely only come with her mother which could create management issues within the herd.
Although not ideal, I think the best way forward is to breed from Donna and Elizabeth and hope for an absence of EEHV and retained foetuses.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
Personally I think that some of Dublin Zoo's Heard should move to Whipsnade. I think moving Asha,Avarni and Zinda would be wise. With regards to Tarli she should remain at Woburn with her Mum and Aunties. In regards to Woburn I would send Raja elsewhere and bring in an unrelated Bull.
Dublin's herd will already be split when Yasmin, Anak, and their sons head to Cincinnati next year, I doubt they'll want to send more of their cows out.
In my opinion, Whipsnade's herd should be just fine with Donna and Elizabeth breeding. It should also be noted that Karishma being reproductively viable is still not out of the question, so let's have our fingers crossed she'll be able to continue breeding as well. I feel like bringing in more cows is not only unnecessary but like others said, would also lead to (unnecessary) issues within the herd.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@IndianRhino As has been repeatedly mentioned Karishma has a retained foetus inside her womb. This makes chances of her having further Calf's remote. Having only Donna and Elizabeth as breeding Cowes will slow the Herds breeding. With response to new Elephants wobbling the herds hierarchy this isn't strictly correct. Back in 2006 Karishma arrived from Twycross Zoo. Karishma slotted in seamlessly. Information to note is that Karishma arrived with no relatives. In fact Karishma was transferred to Whipsnade as she was troublesome in her maternal herd. If a troublesome lone Elephant can fit into the already established Whipsnade Heard surely a well adjusted elephant could.
Tbf @IndianRhino said it’s not out of the question Karishma is unviable for reproduction. She may still expel the retained foetus as many elephants do after a year or so. Retaining one for the time Lucha has is statistically unusual.
Karishma was a lone adolescent female. She was able to assimilate into the herd by not challenging the senior cows. If Tahli came to Whipsnade, she’d be coming with her mother - which would likely create the issues I outlined in my post above. They’re not gonna split up a mother and daughter.
Whipsnade could do with having Elizabeth and Donna as their breeding cows at least for now, although Elizabeth won't be breeding for at least another four to five years. There's no need to attempt to import another female, at least for now.
Karishma does have a retained fetus (which was conceived through natural mating shortly before Emmett's departure in 2019). The calf would've been born last year, so considering it was not that long ago, there is still a chance she may pass the fetus soon. Fingers crossed.
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The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
I’m sure the keepers have seen worse things in a Harry Potter movie.
In all seriousness, they would probably be relived she had passed it as this would be the first step towards breeding from Karishma again and encouraging news from the perspective of the zoo’s breeding programme.
Given it’s been 20 years, I doubt Lucha will ever pass her retained foetus. The two decades of non reproduction have likely rendered her sterile regardless by now.
I agree with @Zoofan15. The keepers will likely be very glad to have the fetus passed as it will enable Karishma to hopefully breed once again. Although she isn't necessarily genetically valuable, she is still only 23 years old and has many reproductive years ahead of her.
I also doubt Lucha would finally pass the fetus as its approaching almost two decades now. Being 40 too, there's no real chance of her ever being able to breed again.
Also, is anyone aware of why Kaylee hasn't breed since Donna in 2009?
[QUOTE="Jamb Also, is anyone aware of why Kaylee hasn't breed since Donna in 2009?[/QUOTE]
No reason, age maybe? I think there was an attempt to breed with the new bull to see if she was still viable, but no pressure from the keepers.
No reason, age maybe? I think there was an attempt to breed with the new bull to see if she was still viable, but no pressure from the keepers.