ZSL Whipsnade Zoo ZSL Whipsnade Zoo News 2025

[Kalaw]

I'd agree and just add there is an obvious difference between constructive criticism and bashing the collections for the sake of it. Statements like nothing is interesting or been added of interest in 10 years or hoping visit numbers tank (and therefore the collections go bust and shut down) don't seem to have much evidence or fairness behind them.

Clearly the decision on the hippos is disppointing and I have to say actually astonishing in terms of removing a large landmark species from a zoo which has always focused on housing large landmark species in the best ways. But the zoos shouldn't shut down if they go, in my opinion anyway.

As far as I can see everyone is entitled to their (reasonable and constructive) opinion without being abused for it and there will always be corrections when things are wrong for the sake of it, either way.

ZSL is far from perfect but I agree there is still much to enjoy in what it is doing and we are, in general terms across both zoos, more on the upward than downward trend.

This sums up my thoughts pretty nicely. Nowhere is above criticism and the decision not to get more hippos is a poor one, but there are times on this forum when that criticism just feels unfair and unwarranted, especially when, as @Gavialis said, the past few years for ZSL have mostly been very prosperous and have seen a revival of sorts.

We should not be celebrating or rejoicing in declining visitor numbers just because an old favourite species left, but luckily we don’t have to because that isn’t going to happen and any suggestion that it will misunderstands the interests of most zoo visitors, in my opinion. Everyone loved the hippos, but there are still elephants, two species of rhino, bears, big cats, chimpanzees, giraffes etc, and the zoo is still an easy day trip from London, especially if you own a car. I believe the complaints and decline in popularity referred to earlier was describing a much older phenomenon being described which got misinterpreted.

 

[ZooNews2024]

I have just scrolled quickly through the last 3 pages of posts above and have missed the ones which are calling for ZSL visitor numbers to drop and the collections close. I did so VERY quickly and must have missed them.
I would say though, that (perhaps, give the organisations history and locality) it has always appeared to consider itself the 'centre-of-the-wheel' and rather superior to everywhere else. This attracts people to work there who fit with this ethos. This is still the case today, and could be considered as 'market-leader-arrogance', a term I have heard used and seems to fit here, as it does in other industries and sectors, and it often allows other more nimble and open-minded rivals to rise around them.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I’m sorry to have to message like this but people who apparently are rejoicing at some lower visitor numbers are just absolutely ridiculous,

But to suggest that it is no longer a 'collection of interesting herbivores,' and that people should stop visiting as a result of this, is in my mind grossly unfair and provably incorrect.

hoping visit numbers tank (and therefore the collections go bust and shut down) don't seem to have much evidence or fairness behind them.

Much like @ZooNews2024 , I've gone through the last month or so of posts and can't find any posts expressing a hope that visitor numbers plummet and the ZSL collections close down whatsoever.

The closest that anyone has come is the following by @Zorro :

One can not blame the public for complaining they pay their money while the zoo slowly deletes one species after another, Whipsnade use to have a wonderful collection of interesting herbivores now many are long gone, How bad does it have to be before many people just do not visit?

...which I would tend to suggest is the expression of a fear that visitor numbers will drop, and NOT the hope that they will... much less a hope the collections "go bust and shut down" as Lafone put it.

 

[Lafone]

Much like @ZooNews2024 , I've gone through the last month or so of posts and can't find any posts expressing a hope that visitor numbers plummet and the ZSL collections close down whatsoever.

The closest that anyone has come is the following by @Zorro :



...which I would tend to suggest is the expression of a fear that visitor numbers will drop, and NOT the hope that they will... much less a hope the collections "go bust and shut down" as Lafone put it.

I disagree with the reading of that myself given the tone of the comments but everyone is free to interpret as they choose (when it comes to comments I have made, for example, that's been the case without correction). I think some people would be content for the collections to do badly, but that's one of those things. If people want to call those who like the collection management suck ups aas has been said in this thread, they are also free to do that but it doesn't mean anyone has to like it.

 

[Kalaw]

Much like @ZooNews2024 , I've gone through the last month or so of posts and can't find any posts expressing a hope that visitor numbers plummet and the ZSL collections close down whatsoever.

The closest that anyone has come is the following by @Zorro :



...which I would tend to suggest is the expression of a fear that visitor numbers will drop, and NOT the hope that they will... much less a hope the collections "go bust and shut down" as Lafone put it.

It was indeed that comment that I, and presumably most others, was referring to. Really, I was just frustrated at the blatantly untrue statement that the zoo is ‘deleting one species after another’ (which I have already disproven strictly within the context of the ‘interesting herbivores’ that he referred to, although of course once you factor in all walks of life, with the aquarium, things are even more positive). The suggestion that people will stop visiting on the basis of said deletion of species therefore came across to myself and others as Zorro attempting to say that people should stop visiting in order to protest said decline, even when there isn’t a decline in the first place.

I would like to apologise to Zorro if I did misinterpret your comment and it did indeed come from a good place, although I stand by the fact that you are completely wrong in your claims that the zoo is ‘deleting one species after another,’ and that people will ever stop visiting as long as the likes of elephants, rhinos and bears remain.

 

[JoB198]

Had a squiz at the emu enclosure as we went by yesterday. I noticed there were quite a few saplings planted in there. Hadn't noticed them before (the emu was always down by the fence line when I saw him/her so didn't need to look 'up-paddock'). Are they new?

 

[Tim May]

I believe the two 'twinned' paddocks that now hold the Visayan pigs/phillipine deer and G.O.H.R were originally built for pairs of Black and White Rhino..

Indeed those two exhibits were originally constructed for Whipsnade's first black rhinos, which were acquired in 1960, and Whipsnade's first southern white rhinos, which were acquired in 1962.

 

[TSW]

I have no intent on stopping visiting or cancelling my membership but if you were to ask the average visiting family with children if they would rather see the 8 species listed a page or 2 ago, or Sea Lions and Hippos the answer would be the same everytime, to most children any type, quantity or multiple varieties of deer is still just deer.

Not trying to be anti the zoo but it does make me agree with with Gavialis comments about how the resources are managed

 

[Maguari]

I have no intent on stopping visiting or cancelling my membership but if you were to ask the average visiting family with children if they would rather see the 8 species listed a page or 2 ago, or Sea Lions and Hippos the answer would be the same everytime, to most children any type, quantity or multiple varieties of deer is still just deer.

Not trying to be anti the zoo but it does make me agree with with Gavialis comments about how the resources are managed

While I get your point, the cost of replacing the housing for the sea lions or hippos is a very different level to the initial spend on setting up most of those ungulate species, even the relatively few of those that went into brand new exhibits. It's not like dropping those (even if we include the macaques and langurs as well) would have freed up enough money to rehouse even one of those two species - probably not by a long way.

 

[TSW]

very true, but the additional revenue that will/would come in over the coming years from mroe ungulates vs an updated exhibit would also be large. Hopefully the management have balanced forecasted profits and not just the now costs and came to the right decision.

 

[Pertinax]

Indeed those two exhibits were originally constructed for Whipsnade's first black rhinos, which were acquired in 1960, and Whipsnade's first southern white rhinos, which were acquired in 1962.

I remember the Black rhinos better, Bwana Mkubwa(male) and Mama Kidogo (female). They produced I think five calves at Whipsnade but only one or two survived to maturity after they were sent elsewhere. During this time Bwana also fathered three calves at London Zoo after their own male Paul died, meaning he was moved back and forth between the two zoos several times.

The White pair were later added to the 20 strong herd that was imported(date?). I remember seeing them in the big paddock where I noticed how they usually stayed seperate from all the others, still moving around and grazing together as a pair.

 

[Zorro]

I remember the Black rhinos better, Bwana Mkubwa(male) and Mama Kidogo (female). They produced I think five calves at Whipsnade but only one or two survived to maturity after they were sent elsewhere. During this time Bwana also fathered three calves at London Zoo after their own male Paul died, meaning he was moved back and forth between the two zoos several times.

The White pair were later added to the 20 strong herd that was imported(date?). I remember seeing them in the big paddock where I noticed how they usually stayed seperate from all the others, still moving around and grazing together as a pair.

The import date was 1970

 

[Lafone]

While I get your point, the cost of replacing the housing for the sea lions or hippos is a very different level to the initial spend on setting up most of those ungulate species, even the relatively few of those that went into brand new exhibits. It's not like dropping those (even if we include the macaques and langurs as well) would have freed up enough money to rehouse even one of those two species - probably not by a long way.

Indeed and at the time the sealions were going there doesn't appear to have been the funding or desire to redevelop that whole area as a facility for any form of aquatic creatures. Whipsnade were applying for planning for and starting Monkey Forest around the same time (and YWP were building what is an amazing facility). Whipsnade have been moving to what has become a different set of animals and focus in geography terms with a greater emphasis on Asiatic species in the newer part of the collection.

In terms of famillies and kids, while I think deer are probably just deer for most zoo visitors, given the dwell time at most exhibits is minutes and it's hard to see most people caring much at all what they are actually looking at, I am not sure that sealions were drawing people to the zoo more than any other animal.

In terms of hippos it seems there is a trend to a smaller number of hippo holders in the UK and if those holders want great facilities Whipsnade don't seem to have had the financial stomach for it. In a sense what's happened with the Hippos is what happened with the Sealions. Both going at the end of their old exhibits to new places who have invested in new ones. I'd have preferred both in place at Whipsnade with wonderful new spaces to see them in for the next 20 years and I think both are a real loss, but the outlay to do those 2 species vs the rest of the zoo is probably what they had to balance as you say.

 

[Tim May]

...The White pair were later added to the 20 strong herd that was imported(date?)....

The import date was 1970

And the white rhino herd arrived at Whipsnade on 5th August 1970

 

[JoB198]

I have no intent on stopping visiting or cancelling my membership but if you were to ask the average visiting family with children if they would rather see the 8 species listed a page or 2 ago, or Sea Lions and Hippos the answer would be the same everytime, to most children any type, quantity or multiple varieties of deer is still just deer.

Not trying to be anti the zoo but it does make me agree with with Gavialis comments about how the resources are managed

To be flippant, most visiting families with children (especially those with memberships) seem very keen on the free soft play.

Evidence: my own social circle.

 

[Kalaw]

I have no intent on stopping visiting or cancelling my membership but if you were to ask the average visiting family with children if they would rather see the 8 species listed a page or 2 ago, or Sea Lions and Hippos the answer would be the same everytime, to most children any type, quantity or multiple varieties of deer is still just deer.

Not trying to be anti the zoo but it does make me agree with with Gavialis comments about how the resources are managed

Of course, there can be no arguing with that. I just think that while there are still so many other beloved animals, many of which can’t be seen at London with Whipsnade being a day trip for most Londoners, people will continue to visit. I feel fairly certain in saying that if they can keep the elephants, visitor numbers won’t dip noticeably any time soon, but perhaps I am wrong.

There won’t be anyone (except maybe us enthusiasts) visiting solely for the deer, but there certainly weren’t many people visiting solely for the sea lions either.

 

[rjh]

A new deer, Tufted Deer? see photo, was in the enclosure at the start of Monkey Walk which used to hold the Emu. As mentioned in a previous post a large number of saplings have been newly planted in the enclosure.



The Macaques were outside and it looked like there has been another recent birth with one Macaque carrying a baby with very pink arms, legs and head.

Another Yak has been born in the last couple of weeks so now a herd of thirteen.

A gate has now been added to the new wooden fence around the Warty Pigs yard so the pigs can be given access to the outside enclosure while the Spotted Deer are shut indoors. Today all the Warty pigs and the Spotted Deer were shut in the outside enclosure while keepers worked inside.

 

[Kalaw]

A new deer, Tufted Deer? see photo, was in the enclosure at the start of Monkey Walk which used to hold the Emu. As mentioned in a previous post a large number of saplings have been newly planted in the enclosure.

Excellent to have that confirmed and to know whereabouts they're onshow. Quite a nice chain of Asian hoofstock paddocks we have going now. I wonder what this means for the Emu - it would be a most peculiar mixed species exhibit if they were to remain. Am I wrong in imagining that at one point the emu were kept in a semi-offshow paddock behind the elephants, visible from the Jumbo Express?

 

[JoB198]

A new deer, Tufted Deer? see photo, was in the enclosure at the start of Monkey Walk which used to hold the Emu. As mentioned in a previous post a large number of saplings have been newly planted in the enclosure.

View attachment 794007

The Macaques were outside and it looked like there has been another recent birth with one Macaque carrying a baby with very pink arms, legs and head.

Delighted my observation wasn't in complete vain.

Also saw the baby macaque the other day and assumed it was new - tbh, there were 2 very little ones racing around who seemed reasonably new as well. They put in a brief appearance outside and vanished indoors again at the weekend.

 

[ZooNews2024]

Indeed and at the time the sealions were going there doesn't appear to have been the funding or desire to redevelop that whole area as a facility for any form of aquatic creatures. Whipsnade were applying for planning for and starting Monkey Forest around the same time (and YWP were building what is an amazing facility). Whipsnade have been moving to what has become a different set of animals and focus in geography terms with a greater emphasis on Asiatic species in the newer part of the collection.

In terms of famillies and kids, while I think deer are probably just deer for most zoo visitors, given the dwell time at most exhibits is minutes and it's hard to see most people caring much at all what they are actually looking at, I am not sure that sealions were drawing people to the zoo more than any other animal.

In terms of hippos it seems there is a trend to a smaller number of hippo holders in the UK and if those holders want great facilities Whipsnade don't seem to have had the financial stomach for it. In a sense what's happened with the Hippos is what happened with the Sealions. Both going at the end of their old exhibits to new places who have invested in new ones. I'd have preferred both in place at Whipsnade with wonderful new spaces to see them in for the next 20 years and I think both are a real loss, but the outlay to do those 2 species vs the rest of the zoo is probably what they had to balance as you say.

I dont personally think that the loss of these two species will have any impact on the number of visitors Whipsnade gets, and if most of the demographic is families with young children, few if any will know what used to be kept there in the past, or be vaguely interested in the losses and gains.
What will affect numbers is the quality and breadth of what is offered today (including non-animal facilities such as toilets, catering, shops and play-areas; and the perceived value for money, ie time spent in relation to funds expended. If any place is visibly contracting and in obvious decline, with clearly uninhabited enclosures - that will certainly not help.