Have You Ever Tried to Open a Zoo? Why You Are not Trying?

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Giant Panda said:
(Which is in Devon, of course.)
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Nevertheless at least a lot closer to the truth than Dortmund...;)

As for the book: yeah, a must-read how NOT to do it...
And there are differences in regard to sheep and fallow deer husbandry.

I remember an older thread answering many of the questions raised so far; it might be useful for those intestered to look it up.
 
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Nikola Chavkosk said:
Also, all this would mean that people must first practice to keep, and then to obtain even exotic pets, as they are too, wild and exotic animals - but that doesn't make sense, right?
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Yeah, this doesn’t make sense; but this might be the result of your incorrect syntax. ^^
As advised again and again and again and..., you should first start with gaining any actual, monitored husbandry experience with “low-maintainance“ species before getting lost in pipe dreams. But given your stated current financial status, you might want to concentrate on a financially sustainable career first before starting any husbandry.
 
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Nikola Chavkosk said:
I just asked several questions, most of you are telling other things. Ok. I have experience in zoo, practicing, 2 months. Also I am vet, and most of you are not. Veterinary medicine scope is very wide.
Also, all this would mean that people must first practice to keep, and then to obtain even exotic pets, as they are too, wild and exotic animals - but that doesn't make sense, right?
I don't agree with most of you on most of your statements by the way, you are making things very complicated - and there is no need for such thing, in my opinion.
Can you really just answer if you don't mind the questions I have asked initially (or with other words don't set this thread in other direction); if this is not interesting or it is borring, as Giant Panda wrote, then you don't need to reply here and the thread will stay empty - because it is borring.
For example, keeping fallow deers is not very different than keeping goats, if you want. :)

Please don't get angry, but many of you seem like a toxic or pessimistic people, killing every enthusiasm, and it looks like the forum is place for more people that wants to work/to own a zoo, but don't succeded in that, than is for people actually working in zoos/owning them/are very optimistic to establish one. :)
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Are you working as a vet Nikola, or you are just trained as a vet, as these would make quite a difference? And you enthousiasm is recommendable but at the same time you show you lack the experience and knowledge, which would put you in a junior role if you want to pursue a zoo career. I would not even consider opening a zoo till you got yourself familiar with the complexity of running a zoo, which include collection management, husbandry but as well accounting, legal matters and human resource management. Benjamin Mee's story shows how not to do it and he took over a zoo with staff that had experience. And people here are passionate about zoos so someone opening one that would become a disaster is something most people here want to avoid. One of the challenges in this that you are convinced that you are an expert while your answers show you are not, which is not an uncommon feature of people that are finishing or just finished their university studies, but one that in this case is not tempered by a real work situation ensuring that you would realise how limited your knowledge is and started to build upon and grow further.

To give you a very easy question that any European zoo vet can answer (and Macedonia is a candidate for EU membership so therefore it is relevant for you) and put your knowledge in perspective in the field you claim to be an expert: Why is 92/65/EEC so important for zoos and how does it benefit them?
 
jbnbsn99 said:
Remember this, the greatest artists, musicians, athletes, actors, etc. spent years developing their craft, learning every skill involved in their field, before making it big. Someone wanting to open a zoo who has never worked in a zoo is like a beginning clarinetist wanting to play in a top symphony orchestra with having put in all the years of training.
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But possibilities that I can ever get a job at zoo is almost nil, and wouldn't that be too much time, before finaly open a zoo? I know there are practical courses organised at various basis, but they can be too costly. If I start with low-maintainance species (like fallow deers or ring-tailed lemurs are?) that doesn't mean that I will not seek help from more experienced keepers, volounteers at zoo, or zoo vets, I would definitively want that.
 
Owning a Zoo and Starting one is a hard job. First of all, you'd need degrees or at least a bit of knowledge in financial management, entrepreneurship, economics, human resource management, marketing, Zoology, and vetinary studies, then you'd STILL probably need 5-10 years of working at a zoo in some different areas to get a good look on how the zoo runs. And you need the funds and planning permission from the government. Then you could probably do it if you had a small investor. Plus, how would you acquire the animals if they weren't normally available? I've seen the hate zoos can get if they want to open or, in the case of Bergen County Zoological Park in NJ, just when they want to upgrade the exhibits and expand the zoo with new ones. People will say "Why do we need a zoo here? There's one (insert distance here) away. And it might be taking away Park land, which people will object to for some reason when you are opening A ZOOLOGICAL PARK
 
Batto said:
As advised again and again and again and..., you should first start with gaining any actual, monitored husbandry experience with “low-maintainance“ species before getting lost in pipe dreams. But given your stated current financial status, you might want to concentrate on a financially sustainable career first before starting any husbandry.
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Aren't fallow deers or ring-tailed lemurs, or gray wolf considered as ''low-maintainance'' species according you Batto?
Actually 300 euros is almost average income here, I don't think so I will be able to concentrate on financially sustainable career; But please bear in mind that these 300.0 euros are equivalent of maybe some 1700.0 euros in Sweden - approaching average wage.

DDcorvus said:
Are you working as a vet Nikola, or you are just trained as a vet, as these would make quite a difference? And you enthousiasm is recommendable but at the same time you show you lack the experience and knowledge, which would put you in a junior role if you want to pursue a zoo career. I would not even consider opening a zoo till you got yourself familiar with the complexity of running a zoo, which include collection management, husbandry but as well accounting, legal matters and human resource management.

To give you a very easy question that any European zoo vet can answer (and Macedonia is a candidate for EU membership so therefore it is relevant for you) and put your knowledge in perspective in the field you claim to be an expert: Why is 92/65/EEC so important for zoos and how does it benefit them?
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Unfortunately I have limitied experience actually working as vet, partially because I don't want to work with domestic species since I don't feel great affinity to practice veterinary medicine with domestic species, and particularly dogs or cats, though I should be quite successfull. The other reason is that I have graduated in 2014, and finished post-graduate practicing in 2015.
I don't think that opening/maintaining a zoo with several species of ''low maintainance'' (like fallow deers, ring-tailed lemurs, wolves, parrots? I am not speaking for rare zoo animals or animals like apes, gibbons, elephants, many others), would be very difficult if you have enough funds?
I am familliar with 92/65/EEC yes and it is mandatory to implement it in our legistlative too. But can you imagine how many zoos there are in EU that not fully meet the requirements? (please don't understand me wrong that I don't want to meet the requirements). In respect to that, I would be ready to seek help from more experienced staff; I will not discuss for living conditions and diets - I would fully meet requirements in those regards.
 
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Nikola Chavkosk said:
Aren't fallow deers or ring-tailed lemurs, or gray wolf considered as ''low-maintainance'' species according you Batto?
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Even a dog can be a high maintenance species if something unexpected happens....

Nikola Chavkosk said:
Unfortunately I have limitied experience actually working as vet, partially because I don't want to work with domestic species since I don't feel affinity to practice veterinary medicine with domestic species, and particularly dogs or cats.
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This is precisely what others in this thread have highlighted before, you will first have to practice and improve your skills on the "basics" and for a vet this are domestics.... There won't be a zoo vet who has not worked for a prolonged period with domestics only.... Not being willing to do this disqualifies you immeadeatly.

Nikola Chavkosk said:
And that's abolition of human rights I think... without possibility to do entrepreneurship or such proffesion.
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It is not, even entrepreneurs will have to know what they are doing (which you are not) to avoid complete failure of their business.

I advise you to read the quote that Hix has as his signature, then read this thread again and wait a day or 2 before posting on it again.
 
lintworm said:
Even a dog can be a high maintenance species if something unexpected happens....


This is precisely what others in this thread have highlighted before, you will first have to practice and improve your skills on the "basics" and for a vet this are domestics.... There won't be a zoo vet who has not worked for a prolonged period with domestics only.... Not being willing to do this disqualifies you immeadeatly.
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Regarding dogs: That doesn't mean that people can't keep dogs.

Regarding zoo vet-proffesion: Seek help from experienced zoo vet of course I will not do more complicated veterinary things alone, other than daily visual check of animals or minor procesures like oral deworming. :)
 
Nikola Chavkosk said:
Regarding dogs: That doesn't mean that people can't keep dogs.

Regarding zoo vet-proffesion: Seek help from experienced zoo vet of course I will not do more complicated veterinary things alone, other than daily visual check of animals or minor procesures like oral deworming. :)
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You are not reading what is being said and only reply to insignificant details, please see the bigger picture many people here are trying to make clear to you...
 
lintworm said:
You are not reading what is being said and only reply to insignificant details, please see the bigger picture many people here are trying to make clear to you...
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Can you help me please to see that picture, seriously. I only see stating that without experience, you can't open a zoo - answer that I don't like to hear and want some alternative.
 
You did not answer my question Nikola and it seems your information is incomplete the directive is not mandatory for zoos to implement, it is just strongly recommended. There are many small zoos that are not approved under 92/65/EEC and it is actually quite well implemented. You as a visitor can actually not judge how the compliance is as most of the important elements are not visible for you.

And the big picture is that you lack the knowledge and experience to open a zoo. Get yourself a pair of Chincillas and work on their husbandry. Save up money and go volunteering for one year in a zoo. Try to get yourself a veterinary apprenticeship and start your career. Do another study in Europe that is more oriented on zoos and do that. And accept that you won't be qualified to be a zoo director or owner till 20 years from now. It actually took me 10 years to get where I am now and to be qualified for the role I have now. So it took me 10 years of working my ass of and building experience till I got the job I wanted.
 
Nikola Chavkosk said:
Can you help me please to see that picture, seriously. I only see stating that without experience, you can't open a zoo - answer that I don't like to hear and want some alternative.
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Then you have already started seeing the picture people are giving you as a response. The fact that that is not the encouragement you had hoped for, does not mean that it is less true or not relevant to listen to this and eventually learn from it. Take DDcorvus advice to heart if you really are as serious as you claim to be and accept that fulfilling your dreams takes up a lot of hard work and making many sacrifices.
 
@DDcorvus: I need carefully to read again the 92/65/EEC, the directive for zoos from 1999, and BALAI-legistlative - I am not very clear who is who from all these, last time I read them before more than a year.
I read that some of these rules are not implemented in zoos from Publication of Born Free foundation from their survey of European (EU) zoos.
 
I would not use BornFree as a source for information as their goal is to close all zoos and therefore their publications are tools towards that goal.
 
DDcorvus said:
as their goal is to close all zoos and therefore their publications are tools towards that goal.
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I know, but that doesn't mean we should not support them in their attempts/calls for improving very bad conditions (like living in small concrete enclosures) some zoos offers to their animals.
 
FelipeDBKO said:
Hey, how much money do you think that someone should reserve before opening a zoo with some animals like Ring-tailed lemurs, Fennecs, Meerkats, Kangaroos/Wallabies, Marmosets/Tamarins, Birds and Reptiles? What if these animals needed to be exported from other country?
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It depends from many things FelipeDBKO. As far as I know, you can buy one Eastern green mamba or a Indochinese spitting cobra for about 150 US dolars/per individual from pet or wild animals dealers. On the other hand, one Hyacinth macaw costs from 5,000 to 10,000 US dollars, but one Blue-and-yellow macaw - 700 US dollars; I suppose you can get red-necked wallabies, ring-tailed lemurs, and other common zoo animals for free from many zoos, if you have your own zoo with appropriate enclosures - and that is very resourcefull; Zoos (and countries like for example Brazil) should widely distribute their wild animals to other zoos with appropriate enclosures.
 
lintworm said:
You are not reading what is being said and only reply to insignificant details
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This!! = quintessence of this and many other previous threads by Nikola (and his minions), put in a nutshell. Thank you.
Since all reason and advice so far has been in vain, I see no sense in replying to any more of this nonsense.
“Human rights“?
 
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