Let me start by saying that I understand the logic behind the way objectives were prioritized by the SG and I completely agree with the rationale. Captive breeding is not a higher priority than objectives that solve the root problem: reducing demand, raising awareness, protecting wild strongholds, etc. However, they do list it as a priority, with its own cost and timeframe. It seems that they intend to include it as one component of the overall plan, and that's how I see it as well: captive breeding should supplement other forms of pangolin conservation, not replace them or even overshadow them.
Perhaps captive breeding will not be what saves pangolins; perhaps it will not even help them. But if their numbers continue to drop and the other conservation measures that are being developed are not enough to keep wild populations from collapsing, ex situ management may become increasingly necessary. Should we wait until then to develop protocols and husbandry expertise for captive breeding?
Apologies if my previous post was unclear on this point. Developing conservation breeding protocols is a component of the plan (although assigned the lowest priority rating), but at "established conservation centres". That's one thing. Extending those efforts to new locations, including zoos in Europe and the US, is quite another. No mention is made of this in the plan, hence Leipzig's import is not recommended.
Surely advocates of a pangolin breeding program (namely you and TeaLovingDave) should be arguing that the resources to put pangolins on display in Europe would be better utilized improving established conservation centres, as recommended by the Pangolin Specialist Group. There's no reason the ex situ work you want to see couldn't be carried out solely in Asia.
Why exactly is Taipei's breeding record "iffy"? (Even if it is, I would not be surprised; they are the premier institution that is developing husbandry protocol for them. Much of that is usually done through trial-and-error, and the word error is part of that phrase for good reason.)
Taking the last decade into account, and assuming TeaLovingDave will correct my figures if they're wrong, the zoo had 8.8 pangolins in 2007 and currently has >20. During that time, only four were conceived and born at Taipei. Certainly a step forward (as are the efforts of Nandankanan, Singapore, and a few other places), but hardly a solid basis for a sustainable captive population.
I also thought this development was odd given how recently the PAX Tag recommended against it. Without knowing who spearheaded the import and what justifications they had, all I would have to offer is conjecture on that front.
Likewise. Given the circumstances, I think my conjecture is best avoided.
Although housed within the Elephant House - the main body of which could fairly be termed high-traffic - the basement area in which the pangolins are displayed is *much* quieter and encounters rather lower levels of footfall; when I visited the collection, the area in question was entirely empty when we initially entered in order to find out when the feeding time would be, and even when the advertised "elephant bathing" and pangolin feed happened there were perhaps only a dozen people in the basement. As such, I suspect the pangolin exhibit was the *quietest* part of the zoo!
I addressed most of your post above, but some specific points…
Your experience of the Elephant House sounds time-specific; the situation in summer is rather different. Nonetheless, given that you didn't challenge the rest of that sentence, I assume you'd concede my point: that conditions aren't ideal for the conservation breeding program you're imagining. To state the obvious, the quietest part of the zoo would have been off-exhibit.
As discussed in the below thread, the Vaquita looks doomed if captive breeding programmes are not established or, having been established, fail; however I believe this will be too little, too late for the species as the wild population really *is* too low to allow for trial and error.
Captive Breeding for Vaquitas?
In other words, if we want a depressing example of what happens if you leave any attempt at starting a captive breeding programme until the very last minute *after* in-situ programmes have failed, with no husbandry expertise having already been developed, I fear that we will be able to point to the Vaquita in years to come.
These cases are non-equivalent in just about every way (direct exploitation vs. bycatch, one country vs. bilateral, small vs. declining pop. paradigm, etc.). However, if your analogy was supposed to illustrate that conservation efforts sometimes start too late… Well, duh.
Since we're on the topic, even your hindsight isn't a wonderful thing. If the Mexican government enforced a total ban on gillnets in the 1990s, the vaquita's predicament probably wouldn't be hopeless. This is a prime example of the failure of in situ conservation. Attempting to establish an ex situ breeding program would have been unnecessary, expensive, deeply controversial, near-impossible logistically, potentially detrimental to in situ efforts, and unlikely to succeed. It would also (and does also) raise serious welfare concerns. This is something I wish you considered before writing off losses as "trial-and-error" and celebrating the import of every new husbandry-challenged species for vacuous notions of "conservation". If nothing else, it makes your derision of @Bib Fortuna's purported dogmatism more than a little hypocritical. Speaking of Bib, he does have a habit of disappearing when challenged, doesn't he?
The long and short: ex situ conservation requires better justification than "the wild population's falling, let's give it a go". Returning to pangolins, I think the authorities cited above are more convincing than your faith in half-baked breeding programs. And you never responded about that beer
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