Howletts Wild Animal Park Misinformation at Howletts

[johnstoni]

So did they have hybrid Ocelots? It does say in their guidebook that they have released Ocelots back into the wild :S

To my knowledge, none of the ocelots in the UK are pure subspecies. Interestingly, the Rare Species Conservation Centre list Brazilian ocelot but they are not shown on ISIS to be any different to the rest of the UK population. If there is any collection likely to bring in pure animals it will be them.

The same was true with the few remaining Margay in Britain in the early 90's until the Ridgeway trust in Sussex recieved some rescued 'pure' animals from south America. These imports reflect the current moderate population of Margay in the UK, including those at Port Lympne, as I think the founder animals originated from the ridgeway trust. Strange though that ISIS doesn't list UK margay as a particular subspecies....as for ocelots, unless pure subspecies come in from rescue centres or the few in North American collections of known origin, I suspect the UK ocelot population was at that time and will remain generic, hence the inappropriate (and not repeated) release of ocelots by John Aspinall.

Yes, Pertinax is right about a very similar situation with the Woolly monkeys in Cornwall, again a release which was not thought through fully. It was when it became apparrent that the whole group must remain in captivity indefinitely due, in part to their mixed ancestry, that the sanctuary instigated the 'no breed' policy, although the group have naturally gravitated towards producing male offspring as the gene pool decreased, with only the one adult female left I think. I think it is a good thing they are concentrating on capuching rehabilitation these days, although educationally i hope there is always a place in the UK where you can see a thriving, multi-generational group of woolly monkeys in a semi-natural setting, regardless of their subspecies status....

 

[johnstoni]

yeah, yeah, its okay, I know it wasn't serious...but if you did it it would ruin the chances of getting any serious information...

Oh but imagine it though, the shame of being on a day out with friends and being asked to leave for disrupting a talk on the basis of factual innaccuracies

 

[Pertinax]

I'm hazarding a guess you may be a curious Howletts or PL keeper? Many people on this forum have been keepers, or still are, or involved in captive animal conservation/management, and will have a certain level of knowledge already, plus if you have a long memory and have read annual reports or IZN over the years you will often remember events no longer publicised by a collection or, in contrast, still very much publicised but incorrectly so.

I'd like to add that I've been visiting Howletts(& PL) for very many years- my first couple of visits to Howletts being before it was ever open to the public.
The majority of people working in the zoos tend to be younger and perhaps without the longterm knowledge that some of us have accumulated over many years. Obviously though they should have a better knowledge than outsiders of exactly what is currently going on in the places they work and this is where their input is valuable, to quash any misdirected speculation or innacuracy if it arises...

 

[Pertinax]

Oh but imagine it though, the shame of being on a day out with friends and being asked to leave for disrupting a talk on the basis of factual innaccuracies

sometimes I've felt like taking over the talk myself....

 

[Pertinax]

So they came claim more misdirected information. Like them returning Sumatran Rhinos to the wild! (Semi-wild more like it)

yes, that was not good. I felt they were very wrong to suggest it, given they lost two females and Torgamba was being returned to a captive sanctuary, and it lost them some credibility in my opinion. But of course it sounds good...maybe that's why they continue the 'myth' of the lions as another example of their conservation work- but they do have several genuine reintroduction projects- gorillas, rhino etc etc so I don't understand why they would need to. Easier than disbanding them?

 

[johnstoni]

the most bizarre during those 'dodgy release' years would have to be the 'Burmese python release'.....done completely unilaterally, and remarkable in part because pythons were the first and only reptiles at the parks, so Howletts was not exactly renowned for its forays into reptile conservation. I don't know how scientific the release was, or how much follow-up or ecological impact data was gathered, it really came across as an opportunistic release of surplus python hatchlings from howletts rather than a long-term goal to repopulate asia with 'endangered' pythons.

I agree....it is astounding and impressive that the JAF has release rhino and lowland gorilla, with those credentials I often wonder why they maintain the less watertight claims apart from maybe to have a long list to speak of.

 

[Pertinax]

I agree....it is astounding and impressive that the JAF has release rhino and lowland gorilla, with those credentials I often wonder why they maintain the less watertight claims apart from maybe to have a long list to speak of.

It sounds better if you reel of a list of 'successes' rather than just with two species. In fact the earliest gorilla reintroductions were problematic too- the first two males sent from Howletts both died, and possibly others from a later group too I think. It was kept quiet until the head gorilla keeper at the time publicly 'came out' in an article in the press and quickly 'left' the parks soon after.

I believe those earliest gorilla releases may have been rather rushed, possibly because old Aspinall wanted to see it happen before he died... They seem to have been more successful since, and the black rhinos appear an ideal subject for this type of scheme. Port Lympne could almost singlehandedly make a real difference in Black Rhino conservation, I think, though I'm not sure if the Gorilla reintroductions are that worthwhile- too much against them?

 

[johnstoni]

It is very much a symbolic conservation move, as in the richer north we are still completely blind to the simple relationships between the mineral wealth we plunder from those central african nations, and way in which the resulting poverty causes conflict and a misappropriation of their natural resources, let alone the desire to protect. But, as far as pointless symbolic conservation moves go, it is nonetheless pretty impressive and way ahead of that of many other establishments.

 

[Pertinax]

, as far as pointless symbolic conservation moves go, it is nonetheless pretty impressive and way ahead of that of many other establishments.

If they didn't remove and send out groups of young Gorillas to Africa, Howletts would have to stop breeding them now- or build more additional accomodation, or make them more available to other zoos.. I've heard that the existing enclosures aren't being added to with any new ones, but some of their groups (particularly in the original kitchen garden area) are overcrowded, particularly those still using the original run of cages which housed the first group of gorillas they ever had- so that's about fifty year old accomodation now and rather archaic. In a public zoo this would no doubt engender critisism (as at Chessington, despite that being a much larger enclosure) but Howletts seem to be able to get away with it on the strength of their reputation- "Howletts breed more Gorillas than anywhere else, so it must be okay..."

 

[JamesB]

going back to the music festival, dont west midlands safari park do the same thing over there, it must have some stress on the animals.

and reading the whole of this forum, it seems such a shame to educate the british public with unreliable and false information, one of the main reasons for taking children to the zoo is to educate them, but if the zoos are giving out the wrong information, maybe we shouldnt bother.

i remember when i was little at a zoo they told me that a turtle was an amphibian and i refused to listen to information whcih would not benefit my education. what do they teach zookeepers at training courses now days?

 

[johnstoni]

a knowledgeable zoologist isn't necessarily analagous to being a brilliant keeper. It's a recent change in many collections that keepers are expected to give talks...and those higher up the staff tend to be old school people who didn't get a degree first and maybe just went into it straight from school. In my experience, undermining or correcting someone higher up the level of command is a most cardinal of sins in the zookeeping world, people having worked for a pittance for years to get where they are. I'm sure many of the keepers giving the talks just say what they are told to. Or, in some situations, it may be a case of Junior keepers ad libbing and the senior staff regarding the talks as an unnecessary irritation and not taking a great deal of interest in the factual inaccuracies. Bear in mind also that some collections train seasonal staff specially to give these talks, and so these people have even less experience with animals.

 

[zooman]

The finaces of Aspianlls.

John Aspinall set up a trust to finaces the ongoing care of his collections. This is runing out of funds far sooner than was hoped for. He left little in his will by comparison a much smaller amount to his children. Damian, his eldest son there is an elder sister, half-brother and two step-brothers. Thank god his Damiann who created his own fortune. Who Mr John Aspinall was very proud of the fact that he did this. Is in charge now of this amazing and important legacy.

The hard facts are that Aspinalls parks need to at least break even at some point to continue with there work. So if Damian decides that he wants to have a go at achieving that let god speed his work.

Stuart

 

[Tim Brown]

Following my criticisms of Aspinall jnr`s anti-zoo outbursts in the Autumn Zoo Grapevine I had an email from Damian today. He accuses me of being "a zoo fanatic with a completely misguided zoo centric view of the world"...he goes on to say that "this thinking is a disease and as a result these poor animals are paying the price and suffering terribly by being imprisoned for human entertainment" There`s much more ,and he`s asked me to print his missive in our publication(which we will do), suffice it say that myself,and by implication,all of you, are causing animal suffering on a massive scale by liking/being interested in/working in, zoos. In response i suggested that if that is his view of the zoo community, then his zoos should resign from EAZA. It would be hypocritical of him to remain alongside people/institutions he despises.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Following my criticisms of Aspinall jnr`s anti-zoo outbursts in the Autumn Zoo Grapevine I had an email from Damian today. He accuses me of being "a zoo fanatic with a completely misguided zoo centric view of the world"...he goes on to say that "this thinking is a disease and as a result these poor animals are paying the price and suffering terribly by being imprisoned for human entertainment" There`s much more ,and he`s asked me to print his missive in our publication(which we will do), suffice it say that myself,and by implication,all of you, are causing animal suffering on a massive scale by liking/being interested in/working in, zoos. In response i suggested that if that is his view of the zoo community, then his zoos should resign from EAZA. It would be hypocritical of him to remain alongside people/institutions he despises.

That email will make an interesting read! Very much look forward to ZG - as always.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

"this thinking is a disease and as a result these poor animals are paying the price and suffering terribly by being imprisoned for human entertainment"

Whilst of course Damien playing with animals and using the photographs for publicity purposes is something totally different, and not an indication of utter hypocrisy in the slightest......

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

And yet, I came away from a wonderful visit with a real grumpiness raging inside. And this came from the keepers' talks I endured. I'm not a fan of such talks usually - how many of us have ever heard anything we did not already know? - but these took the biscuit. I was told that anteaters had thick fur to deter attacks from "jaguars and leopards". A slip of the tongue, maybe, but you expect better.

Seriously!? Leopards in South America !?

I know that to the general public this isn't cause for concern but I am certain that hearing a comment like that would irritate me too.

Especially considering how important education is and that the Aspinall parks from what I gather pride themselves on their educational role. If they are going to talk the talk then kindly walk the walk with regards to implementing environmental education. Looking at some of the other comments here which are to the effect of "It isn't a big deal public pays and zoo benefits" , I agree up to a certain extent. Good on the Aspinall parks for their contributions to conservation but I find it a little disappointing to hear about their crappy delivery of environmental education.

I have to admit in your place I would probably have not been able to restrain myself from interjecting / correcting them with " NOT leopards..jaguars and pumas". Moreover, I think they are confusing their South American mammals as it is the lowland tapir which is hypothesized to have that bristled mane as defence against jaguar attacks. The anteater has that bristly fur / pelt and the bushy tail for warmth at colder times of the year and temperature drops at night because of its odd thermoregulatory needs and metabolism.

It is disappointing really because they could have given so many genuinely interesting trivia points or correct annecdotes about giant anteaters (their astounding ability to defend themselves , their knuckle walking being convergent to great apes, their sense of smell , thermoregulation , their tail giving the name "flag anteater" in Portuguese etc. ) but instead they just delivered some cobbled together nonsense that could have come out of a medieval bestiary.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

a knowledgeable zoologist isn't necessarily analagous to being a brilliant keeper. It's a recent change in many collections that keepers are expected to give talks...and those higher up the staff tend to be old school people who didn't get a degree first and maybe just went into it straight from school. In my experience, undermining or correcting someone higher up the level of command is a most cardinal of sins in the zookeeping world, people having worked for a pittance for years to get where they are. I'm sure many of the keepers giving the talks just say what they are told to. Or, in some situations, it may be a case of Junior keepers ad libbing and the senior staff regarding the talks as an unnecessary irritation and not taking a great deal of interest in the factual inaccuracies. Bear in mind also that some collections train seasonal staff specially to give these talks, and so these people have even less experience with animals.

Well I somewhat disagree with your point about a knowledgeable zoologist not being analagous to a brilliant keeper. A keeper may not have a brilliant zoological knowledge about the natural world, however, they should IMO at least be acquianted (or try to be) with the very basic concepts of where the animals under their care originate from, basic aspects of their ecology, and just a general sense of biogeography (Tigers are from Asia , lions from India and Africa , Leopards are African and Asian, Jaguars are from the Americas etc).

If the keeper in question is a senior employee (and even if they entered the field without a degree) then I would be even more concerned about their lack of knowledge and would tactfully and diplomatically try to broach it , though this may indeed be difficult to do. In regards to zoo educators I have no idea how this is done in UK Zoos but from what I have observed it takes a very particular kind of person to be a zoo educator and to engage with the public (frankly it is almost as tough if not more than working with the animals) while delivering meaningful educational content about the natural world. Employing seasonal educators is a recipe for disaster in my opinion as the better option is to have permanent and trained educators and their volunteers working within a permanent and adequately funded (and institutionally appreciated) environmental education programe.

If the keeper happens to be a young person who has recently graduated then that is to me indicative of the fact that in todays world getting an education usually is a consumption good and (from what I've observed) often doesn't equate with being a truly educated person. The scary thing is that this can and does continue right up to the level of the PhD system in many instances. I've met PhD students who were uneducated in wider bases of natural history or general knowledge outside of their narrow specializations in an almost disturbingly autistic manner and didn't appear to even recognise ethical behaviour or anything other than cuthroat and sociopathic conduct.

In Latin America many keepers arrive at work without college degrees and often lacking basic education but through hard work and gaining experience through careful observation of / and forming bonds with the animals under their care they often become very authorative on the behaviour of a species in captivity and know the individual animals quirks and character inside out (I guess this is how it once was in the UK and Europe before getting a degree became a mandatory requirement for zoo work).

I think that this valuable experiential knowledge combined with maybe some encouragement to do reading on the side and to begin an "autodictat" type self education can produce even better quality keepers and when this is encouraged tactfully it doesn't necessarily have to diminish or bruise the self esteem of anyone.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Following my criticisms of Aspinall jnr`s anti-zoo outbursts in the Autumn Zoo Grapevine I had an email from Damian today. He accuses me of being "a zoo fanatic with a completely misguided zoo centric view of the world"...he goes on to say that "this thinking is a disease and as a result these poor animals are paying the price and suffering terribly by being imprisoned for human entertainment" There`s much more ,and he`s asked me to print his missive in our publication(which we will do), suffice it say that myself,and by implication,all of you, are causing animal suffering on a massive scale by liking/being interested in/working in, zoos. In response i suggested that if that is his view of the zoo community, then his zoos should resign from EAZA. It would be hypocritical of him to remain alongside people/institutions he despises.

Is not DA somewhat like an antropocentric with a zoofanatic approach 360 degrees in the opposite direction?

He is both as contradictory as the next person and sometimes his wordings are a complete misrepresentation of reality (does this equal "lying" in public?), allthough on some points he is kinda …. Vale (a Latino expression), particularly on their more audacious and unconventional field operations that do / do not produce surprising results and have unexpected benefits over conventional field conservation and research.

 

[Jennings]

Following my criticisms of Aspinall jnr`s anti-zoo outbursts in the Autumn Zoo Grapevine I had an email from Damian today. He accuses me of being "a zoo fanatic with a completely misguided zoo centric view of the world"...he goes on to say that "this thinking is a disease and as a result these poor animals are paying the price and suffering terribly by being imprisoned for human entertainment" There`s much more ,and he`s asked me to print his missive in our publication(which we will do), suffice it say that myself,and by implication,all of you, are causing animal suffering on a massive scale by liking/being interested in/working in, zoos. In response i suggested that if that is his view of the zoo community, then his zoos should resign from EAZA. It would be hypocritical of him to remain alongside people/institutions he despises.

The obvious inference from this is that he doesn't like competition. If he meant what he said then would put his money where his mouth is and stop exhibiting such conservation priorities as Meerkats and Domestic Water Buffalo. Moreover, if he truly believed this twaddle, why would he continue to send animals to other collections and participate in breeding programmes?

 

[Andrew Swales]

(I guess this is how it once was in the UK and Europe before getting a degree became a mandatory requirement for zoo work).

A degree is not a mandatory requirement for zoo work, far from it...