ZooChat Cup finals: Beauval vs Plzen

[Penshet]

I voted 3-0 Beauval initially because I hadn't heard of anything noteworthy for Plzen. With the arguments that have been made, I think I'd rather visit Plzen than Beauval for their aquatic exhibits. Hence, I changed my vote to 2-1 for Plzen.

 

[NSU42]

Far too many of the exhibits being put forward for Plzen are thoroughly ordinary. I often wonder how many of the people who swing to Plzen after @TeaLovingDave does one of his photo essays would regret their new position if they could actually stand in the zoo and see some of the exhibits with their own eyes.

For me at least (I assume this goes for a few other voters as well), I have not visited either zoo, so I can't even say that I really liked this zoo and someones argument isn't enough to sway me to the other side. All I have to go off of is arguments placed here in this thread and anything I may already know about the zoo, which normally isn't much. That being said, their hasn't really been anything said about Beauval. The entire argument (as most of this thread has been dedicated to whether the manatees count or not) can be summarized by this one post:

Beauval has a wonderful hippo exhibit, probably up there with the best in Europe and even the world, a great penguin exhibit accompanying a good sea lion pool and a large and lush manatee pool mixed with around 8 species of Amazonian fish and other river species. There is also an exhibit for Ocellate river stingrays in the Gorilla house, a very large flamingo exhibit and finally a pelican exhibit with multiple lakes. Beauval also has multiple tanks of Great Barrier reef fish in their Australian house.

As someone that hasn't been to either zoo, a quick description of exhibits is not enough to compete with the information that @TeaLovingDave has provided, which shows that Plzen has a significant and unique complex that relates to the category (the Czech River Complex), along with Underground World, and then quite a few other species to go along with it. As you said, the last group of exhibits do appear to be ordinary or average overall, but at some point average enclosures in quantity outweigh less than a dozen exhibits of high quality, at least for me. Three (or four if we count manatees, which I would say are off show from our knowledge) exhibits are not enough to compete with what Plzen has to offer. No matter how good they may be (the Hippo enclosure at Beauval looks beautiful!).

You are absolutely right, if I visit both zoos it may be a different story, but for now, all I have to go off of is arguments and other peoples' thoughts. Of which, their isn't much said here about Beauval to make me think it deserves the win. In fact, you have given the most compelling argument so far, by saying what isn't so great at Plzen! That, however, is not enough for me to switch back currently, as I just don't know enough about Beauval.

Anyone, as TeaLovingDave has already said multiple times, feel free to provide more information and get me to switch back!

 

[lintworm]

Yeah, I saw that post earlier this month too; looks like @lintworm making an educated guess that they might end up with two groups, rather than stating it is indeed the case?

It was indeed an educated guess, but from what I gather with my French is that all 9 manatees are actually together in the new dome now, but what is in the old tank, I don't know...

 

[FunkyGibbon]

It was indeed an educated guess, but from what I gather with my French is that all 9 manatees are actually together in the new dome now, but what is in the old tank, I don't know...

Then we should not consider the old pool.

@NSU42 I fully sympathise with your position. Indeed I am halfway there myself, as I haven't visited Beauval, and am loathe to go looking for photos in the gallery.

What I am going on is my experience of Plzen. Plzen has many strengths, and is in many ways a lovely zoo. However, statements like the one below always make me bristle a little because too often exhibits are quite the opposite of spacious.

In Plzen, who has a lower budget by far, they managed to make simple yet spacious and pleasant exhibits for both people and animals.

(which is not to say that Rayane shouldn't vote for Plzen, their reasons seem perfectly sound otherwise)

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I fully sympathise with your position. Indeed I am halfway there myself, as I haven't visited Beauval, and am loathe to go looking for photos in the gallery.

And, as one might guess from the way my vote has shifted over the last day or so, this is roughly my position too my gut feeling was that Beauval would be superior, but between reminding myself of Plzen's strengths and the continued lack of any actual case being made for Beauval my thinking changed. But I'm still open to shifting back if/when an actual case is made for Beauval that doesn't feel like people voting for the default opinion of "obviously X must be better, because it isn't Plzen and we all know Plzen is backwards and overcrowded" which I think is often unfairly overstated. Not that I think everyone (or even most of those) voting in favour of Beauval is doing so along these lines, but I suspect some *are* doing so.

Plzen has many strengths, and is in many ways a lovely zoo. However, statements like the one below always make me bristle a little because too often exhibits are quite the opposite of spacious.

"Too often" in the sense that any amount of exhibits being small or overcrowded is an issue..... but also increasingly less often the case, as I've made the case for several times during the Zoochat Cup. Certainly the overcrowding issue was vastly less in evidence in October 2019 than it was in June 2017.

That said, most of the exhibits I've specifically highlighted for this category *are* on the better end of the scale - the definite exception being the indoor enclosure for the Pygmy Hippopotamus, although the high quality of the outdoor exhibit does help to balance this out.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

But I'm still open to shifting back if/when an actual case is made for Beauval that doesn't feel like people voting for the default opinion of "obviously X must be better, because it isn't Plzen and we all know Plzen is backwards and overcrowded" which I think is often unfairly overstated. Not that I think everyone (or even most of those) voting in favour of Beauval is doing so along these lines, but I suspect some *are* doing so.

Given the continued lack of anyone bothering to do this nearly 48 hours after I first asked - and the pointed silence from the remaining two voters who seem to think Plzen has no redeeming qualities in this category but somehow can't manage to explain why - I have the strong suspicion that this *is* going on.

A pity; Beauval is still going to win this one anyway and always was, so it costs nothing to engage in a little good faith and have the decency to at least make the case for the win given the effort I put into detailing the counterargument.

 

[Mr. Zootycoon]

Given the continued lack of anyone bothering to do this nearly 48 hours after I first asked - and the pointed silence from the remaining two voters who seem to think Plzen has no redeeming qualities in this category but somehow can't manage to explain why - I have the strong suspicion that this *is* going on.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I can explain my vote (if I can't I won't vote anyway).

Firstly, I have not visited either zoo. My vote is purely based on arguments here, pictures in the gallery and the species list on ZTL. My first impression was that Beauval should win, based almost solely on the hippo exhibit, which is at the very top of my "must see"-wishlist. In simply looks spectacular.

The argument for Plzen as put forward by yourself made we rethink my vote. The Czech River Complex is especially compelling as an argument for Plzen, as is the aviary with gulls (a soft spot of mine). I thought Plzen would have the edge, but arguments put forward by @FunkyGibbon in particular made we doubt again and look better in the gallery.

My (subjective and certainly incomplete) view is that outside the top-tier exhibit of either zoo (river complex and hippos), both are relatively ordinary. However, I found that Beauval's exhibits for e.g. otters, penguins and cichlids have the edge over what Plzen has to offer (even if they have gulls!). I did not take the manatee pool into consideration to be on the save side, but all things considered I think Beauval is just ahead of Plzen in this category.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

My (subjective and certainly incomplete) view is that outside the top-tier exhibit of either zoo (river complex and hippos), both are relatively ordinary. However, I found that Beauval's exhibits for e.g. otters, penguins and cichlids have the edge over what Plzen has to offer (even if they have gulls!). I did not take the manatee pool into consideration to be on the save side, but all things considered I think Beauval is just ahead of Plzen in this category.

Thanks for the feedback and photographs even if I'd contest the suggestion that Underground World at Plzen is "relatively ordinary"!

In a way I wish it *was* relatively ordinary for collections to have exhibits like Underground World, as it would be a net gain for the zoo world

 

[CGSwans]

Hi all, just a note that @sooty mangabey ’s vote is not being counted for this one, unfortunately. The revised score is 52-38 to Beauval.