ZooChat Cup finals: Bronx vs Vienna

[CGSwans]

No biggie, this. Only outright top spot and Cup favouritism on the line. Grasslands and Deserts.

 

[lintworm]

Vienna has a wonderful desert house, not huge, but certainly a good size and across the zoo are plenty of grassland species in appropriate to great enclosures. From what I gather Bronx does fine on the grassland component, but not so much on the desert side....

 

[twilighter]

Vienna has strong desert card with the North African house, Bird house and Desert house and nice grassland appearance with mixed hoofstock in Chitwan park, the new Giraffe and Hippo houses and various African birds and antelopes around the Pavilion. The South American pampas are also very well presented. The Elephant park got some criticism here, but I don't feel is too bad. I will try to find some photos later tonight.

 

[nczoofan]

Reviewing what the Bronx Zoo has for these categories. Bronx has a great selection for grasslands, but also has a fairly good desert collection (just spread around the zoo).

• African Plains with exhibits for giraffe, ostrich, nyala, Thomson's gazelle, crowned crane, marabou stork, slender-horned gazelle, grevy’s zebra, spotted hyena, african wild dog, african lion, aardvark, white-faced scops owl, and, dwarf mongoose.
• Wild Asia Monorail has mongolian wild horse, blackbuck, sambar, barasingha, hog deer, indian rhino, nilgai (all in exhibits over an acre in size)
• The Spiny Forest in Madagascar would in my opinion count as its part of the desert/xeric biome. Its got vasa parrot, ring-tailed lemur, collared lemur, radiated tortoise, among other species.
• Also American Bison, prairie dog, White Rhino, and fennec fox scattered around the zoo.
• Several species in the mouse house (sinai spiny mouse, short-eared elephant shrew, cactus mouse,...)
• Several species of reptile (gila monster, Mexican giant horned lizard, pancake tortoise, eastern-diamondback rattlesnake, spiny-tailed monitor, spider tortoise, israeli spur-thiged tortoise, african spurred tortoise, shield-tailed agama, chuckawalla, Madagascar-spiny tailed iguana, sonoran-gopher snake,...)
• In World of Birds there are 2 African savannah exhibits on the first floor. One holds 2 species of bee-eater, while the other holds a wide variety of birds including vulturine guineafowl, weaver bird, and northern red-bishop .

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I'm assuming semi-desert habitats are lumped in either with deserts or grasslands.

Desert species-wise, Bronx keeps about 13 species of rodent, Screaming Hairy Armadillo, Slender-Horned Gazelle, Nubian Ibex, Markhor, various birds such as Burrowing Owl, Buff-Crested Bustard, two African bee-eater species, and Emu among others, and a lot of herps including 5 species of tortoise, various Southwest American, North African, and Australian lizards, and six rattlesnake species.

Grasslands are a bit more obvious, with their 16 species of African/Asian grassland ungulates, 11 species of carnivore, Giant Anteater, and many birds including four crane species and various African savanna birds including Ostrich. Herp-wise I'm sure there's quite a bit of overlap with the species I listed already.

Indian grasslands/Asian steppe:
Bronx Zoo- Nilgai/ Indian Muntjac/ Formosa Sika Deer - ZooChat
Wild Asia - ZooChat
Indian Rhino Enclosure - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Mongolian Wild Horse Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo 2010 - Przewalskis Horse exhibit in Wild Asia - ZooChat
Himalayan Highlands- White-Naped Crane Exhibit - ZooChat

African savanna:
African Plains- Grevy's Zebra Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- African Plains- N'yala Exhibit (Springtime) - ZooChat
https://www.zooc
hat.com/community/media/slender-horned-gazelle-enclosure.375655/
Thomson's Gazelles - ZooChat
Bronx zoo- Giraffe Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx zoo- Giraffe Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- African Lion Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo 2010 - Another part of African Wild Dog exhibit - ZooChat
African Plains- Spotted Hyena Exhibit - ZooChat
African Plains- Dwarf Mongoose Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo - Dwarf mongoose exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- World of Birds- Part 2 of Mixed Desert Exhibit - ZooChat
Bee-eaters exhibit 031215 - ZooChat

Great Plains:
Bronx Zoo- Bison Range- Bison Exhibit - ZooChat
Bison Exhibit - ZooChat
Burrowing Owl - ZooChat
*apparently no photos of the prairie dog enclosure exist, but it includes one of those glass tunnel system for kids to enter*

Spiny Forest:
Bronx Zoo 2010 - Mixed Spiny Forest exhibit for Lemurs in Madagascar - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Spiny Forest Exhibit @ Madagascar! - ZooChat
Madagascar! - Ring-Tailed Mongoose Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Radiated Tortoise Exhibit - ZooChat (contains spider tortoises and small lizards now)

Pampas:
1/2 of the Giant anteater enclosure - ZooChat

I'm not really sure what the habitat of the Seychelles and Galapagos count as (I think at least the Galapagos is more desert-like?) but the zoo keeps both species of giant tortoise. The zoo also keeps multiple Australian finch species but I'm not sure where those would fall.

Conservation-wise, it's worth noting that the zoo is almost singlehandedly responsible for saving the American Bison and continues to work with the species and in the American grasslands to this day. They also were the second US zoo to keep wild horses and have maintained their herd ever since as well as having had a large hand in the reintroduction project for the species. The zoo also has significant conservation programs in Patagonia, across Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, and of course the arid regions of Madagascar.

Reviewing what the Bronx Zoo has for these categories. Bronx has a great selection for grasslands, but also has a fairly good desert collection (just spread around the zoo).

• In World of Birds there are 2 African savannah exhibits on the first floor. One holds 2 species of bee-eater, while the other holds a wide variety of birds including vulturine guineafowl, weaver bird, and northern red-bishop .

In addition to this the zoo has an African savanna aviary along the Pheasantry which houses their guineafowl and some passerines.

~Thylo

 

[TZDugong]

Given that this is a very close match, I'll give my reasons for voting 2-1 Bronx.

Of the two biome areas applicable for this tie, Bronx is definitely "Grasslands". The highlight Grassland area is definitely the African Plains exhibit; it contains a series of large and very lush exhibits for hoofstock, carnivores and a couple of bird species. The exhibitry isn't flashy, but it's well above average, and this is a nice part of the collection to just relax and enjoy the zoo. The exhibits on the Asian monorail are pretty great as well, obviously the fairly limited viewing time is a downside but the exhibits are very impressive. The Bee-Eater exhibit in World of Birds was also pretty excellent; if I recall correctly there is no barrier between the guests and the Birds, with only the darkened visitor area preventing them from leaving.

"Deserts" is not quite as impressive for Bronx, although I wouldn't call it a weakness either. The Spiny Forest Lemur exhibits in Madagascar! is the Desert highlight; while it is all-indoors, the exhibit is still large and has ample climbing opportunities for the primates, not to mention it does a terrific job at replicating the Spiny Forest home of these animals. Add in some Parrots and Tortoises and you have a terrific exhibit. Other Desert areas include Nubian Ibex in the excellent Ethiopian Highlands are, lots of rodents in average Mouse House accommodation as well as quite a few herptiles in the Reptile House.

So all in all, Bronx has a pretty large collection in mostly good exhibits to go along with some outstanding conservation work. This slightly pushes it above Vienna to give Bronx the 2-1 victory for me.

 

[twilighter]

Even though Vienna is not as rich as some of the finalists, when it comes to area, they have the quality to utilitize the given space, the best way possible. A lot has been said, about their abilty to combine historical heritage with modern husbandry and I will try to support their couse in the current category:

The South American Park is one of my favourite areas in the zoo. The way they manage to present together Brazilian Tapir/Giant Anteater/Capybara/Vicugna/ Greater Rhea and Red-legged Seriema both outdoor and indoor is really unique:







The African Grassland pavilions are one of the oldest in the zoo and keep their renaissance charm until today. Emperor Francis I Stephan loved to watch the peacefull antelopes, while he had breakfast, and did not accept any carnivores in his zoo. The inhabitants have a good space, always access to water source and most of the stables have indoor view.

Common Eland


Grant's zebra:

Greater flamingo

Addra gazelle


Nyala


Kirk's Dik dik

 

[TZDugong]

The South American Park is one of my favourite areas in the zoo. The way they manage to present together Brazilian Tapir/Giant Anteater/Capybara/Vicugna/ Greater Rhea and Red-legged Seriema both outdoor and indoor is really unique:

I wouldn't call this a unique exhibit; the species is list is typical of a South American mixed exhibit and the enclosure, while nice, looks similar to dozens of other SA mixed exhibits.

As an aside, after seeing those enclosures I think Bronx is still the winner here, their exhibits just seem better than Vienna's (specifically speaking about hoofstock). For instance compare Bronx's Nyala exhibit:

To Vienna's Nyala exhibit:

Or perhaps Bronx's Zebra exhibit:

To Vienna's Zebra exhibit:

I must say though, Vienna has some really striking architecture!

 

[twilighter]

The new Giraffe house open 2017 is a great engineer achievement and winner of City's environmental award. The Giraffes always have special place in Schönbrunn history, since they are one of the first zoos holding the species and established "heating" system with cows living under giraffe barn.





The African Elephant Park can not match the biggest in Europe, but is well made and the last's year baby is one of the main attractions in Vienna zoo.





African Pygmy mouse excibit inside:


The new Hippo pound gives significantly more space to it's inhabitans, especialy outside. The free flying Egyptian fruit bats are nice addition to the indoor pool.

 

[twilighter]

The Royal Chitwan Rino Park is a beautiful depiction of the Asian plains with multiple viewing points, housing Indian Rhino, Blackbuck, Nilgai and Vietnamese sika deer :











There are also Collared Peccary,


Bison paddock,


and one of the very good Cheetah enclousures nearby.

 

[twilighter]

Savanah room in the Bird house deserved to be mentioned




And the representation of the Desert biom in few different parts of the zoo:

Desert house:




Oman Spiny Lizard

East-African House, featuring Von der Decken's hornbill/East African dwarf mongoose and Southern Ground Hornbil







And the remarkable Meerkat/King Kolobus exibit in the Monkey house

 

[twilighter]

I wouldn't call this a unique exhibit; the species is list is typical of a South American mixed exhibit and the enclosure, while nice, looks similar to dozens of other SA mixed exhibits.

The count of spieces is definitely not unique for South America in zoos, but the way, man can observe the interaction between those different animals , especially indoors, is not so common thing, at least in Europe . The South American house is a very nice facility with few different rooms and water source, all the spieces have access to.

 

[CGSwans]

This is probably the most important match of the entire cup so far, and scores are currently tied.

Just an observation.

 

[ShonenJake13]

I had put my vote in as 2-1 to Vienna as a placeholder, not remembering much about Bronx as far as these biomes were concerned.

However, despite an impressive desert house at Vienna, I had completely forgotten about Bronx's incredible Spiny Forest mixed exhibit, and some of the unique species kept in the zoo's Mouse House. In addition to this, both times I have visited Bronx the monorail was closed, and from photos the enclosures look expansive and well-rounded for the animals. Add in the incredible conservation work that they do with bison...and my mind has been changed. 2-1 Bronx.

 

[Penshet]

I'm voting for Vienna, as the Desert House is beyond anything Bronx has to offer, and also solidly within the category (which I'm not sure Madagascar! at Bronx actually is? Still, an all-indoor lemur house definitely isn't better than Vienna's Desert House).
While Vienna doesn't do great on grasslands, Bronx isn't perfect either - the giraffes at Bronx are housed in an enclosure that's worse than the one in Vienna. The Monorail is only seasonally opened and doesn't allow you to watch as long as you wish. The enclosures are no doubt outstanding, but I'd rather be at Vienna's (great) enclosures than take multiple tours on Bronx' monorail and still not have spent as much time there as I'd like.

 

[TZDugong]

I'm voting for Vienna, as the Desert House is beyond anything Bronx has to offer

In just the Desert category, or in both categories? For the former I'm inclined to agree with you, but for the latter I'd say that "African Plains" at Bronx eclipses it. Vienna's Desert House must be an exhibit that I'd need to go and see before making an impression because judging from the photos it doesn't look that impressive.

which I'm not sure Madagascar! at Bronx actually is?

I'd say it counts; I doesn't really fit into the temperate category, it isn't a tropical forest and it's obviously not aquatic. Bronx's exhibit also gives off a Desert-feel for what it'a worth.

the giraffes at Bronx are housed in an enclosure that's worse than the one in Vienna.

I'd definitely disagree with this comment. For me Bronx easily has the better Giraffe exhibit. To compare, Bronx's exhibit:

Now Vienna's exhibit:

There's no contest really imo.

 

[Penshet]

In just the Desert category, or in both categories? For the former I'm inclined to agree with you, but for the latter I'd say that "African Plains" at Bronx eclipses it. Vienna's Desert House must be an exhibit that I'd need to go and see before making an impression because judging from the photos it doesn't look that impressive.

I'd say it counts; I doesn't really fit into the temperate category, it isn't a tropical forest and it's obviously not aquatic. Bronx's exhibit also gives off a Desert-feel for what it'a worth.

I'd definitely disagree with this comment. For me Bronx easily has the better Giraffe exhibit. To compare, Bronx's exhibit:

Now Vienna's exhibit:

There's no contest really imo.

On the topic of the Desert House at Vienna, here are some more pics:

It houses around 20 species, with some nocturnal animals in an underground tunnel.

For the giraffes, I was mostly pointing to the indoor housing. The Carter giraffe building at Bronx is pretty bad, even if the giraffes don't spend months in there. Vienna on the other hand has a modern and sufficiently big indoor house. Compare:

Depicts about half the space accessible to the giraffes at Bronx

Depicts about 2 thirds of the space accessible to the giraffes at Vienna, with the rest being through the door on the right.

 

[lintworm]

In addition to the pictures of @twilighter, Here are some more that highlight Vienna.

The Desert house is really good, it is not huge, but after Burgers' Desert it is the best desert representation I know of on the continent. The desert house is an historic greenhouse:

With outdoors a fine enclosure for European souslik (the European answer to Prairie dogs, but cuter ).

The first part of the house is the least interesting, it holds the entrance area, as well as several endangered fresh-water fish, Garra rufa fish and some reptiles:

What follows is a long cave-like corridor with enclosures for Naked mole rat, several reptiles from deserts around the world, invertebrates like ants and I think this is also where the Long-eared hedgehogs are on display now.

One exits in the Madagascar section of the house which houses Fody and Radiated tortoises, but focuses mostly on Malagasy desert plants:

The largest section is devoted to deserts around the world and houses multiple free-flying bird species as well as enclosures for Sengi, tortoises and Gila monster.

This is the Sengi enclosure:

In the main zoo there are not many desert species, but there are a few terraria with arid adapted species, which are large if not huge compared to many other zoos:

Rhinoceros iguana, Haitian ameiva & Cuban grassquit

Smaller enclosure for Lesser antillean iguana

Aditionally the reptile house has a spacious Aldabra giant tortoise enclosure and outside is a terrarium for Meadow vipers, a locally endangered species.

 

[lintworm]

When it comes to larger species, Vienna does not have the space of Bronx, but there are no bad enclosures, even if they are not huge. Some examples:

Lions

Cheetah

Collared peccary

Prairie dog

It is worth highlighting the Indian rhino enclosure again, which has the largest indoor housing I have seen for the species and outside is also spacious with multiple opportunities for the sharing Nilgai, Blackbuck (and non-counting Vietnamese sika deer) to get out of the Rhino's way:

The giraffe outdoors cannot match Bronx, but indoors appears to be superior with a new building attached to the old stables (to which the animals seem to have full access the whole day)

A new development is the Africa house, which is another renovated baroque building:

Which apart from the indoor housing for Ground hornbill contains a large enclosure (this whole picture) for Dwarf mongoose and Decken's hornbill

Outdoor aviary with the Giraffe house in the background.

My personal highlight is the bird house:

Which consists of two walkthrough aviaries, one is an African savannah:

With a high-quality species list:

Then there is the South-American pampa exhibit, the antelope and zebra enclosures, the meerkats in the primate house and which have already been mentioned. These are all good as well. The only lowlight for me personally is the Elephant accomodation, which was modern 25 years ago, but already looks somewhat outdated:

The outdoors is long and narrow, but larger than this picture show:

Overall this is a 3-0 or very clear 2-1 win for Vienna on desert and a very narrow 2-1 on Bronx on the grasslands parts, so overall Vienna has the edge for me.

 

[TZDugong]

For the giraffes, I was mostly pointing to the indoor housing. The Carter giraffe building at Bronx is pretty bad, even if the giraffes don't spend months in there. Vienna on the other hand has a modern and sufficiently big indoor house. Compare:

Depicts about half the space accessible to the giraffes at Bronx

Depicts about 2 thirds of the space accessible to the giraffes at Vienna, with the rest being through the door on the right.

Ah okay, the Giraffe indoors at Bronx is pretty bad, while Vienna's looks quite nice (and has some fabulous architecture!). Outdoors is a clear win for Bronx though and so I think Bronx still has a slight edge in terms of Giraffe accommodation.

As an aside, the new photos of Vienna's Desert house show it to be much better than I originally thought. Thanks! Still 2-1 Bronx for me though; they have a clear 2-1 edge in Grasslands, and while Vienna is better for Deserts, bronx at least makes it close. Add in the fantastic conservation work Bronx does and it wins this (very close) contest.