Wildwood Discovery Park Wilding Kent

MRJ said:
So are there any large nature reserves in the UK, whatever they may be called?
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Given the length of time our small islands have been inhabited by man, there can be no areas which have not been influenced by humans, in the way fragments remain in 'younger' countries...

Re-'wilding' is an interesting use of scarce land resources in an over-populated, small and hungry island, dependent on expensive imported food from often ethically questionable origins, especially at a time when the future of cheap world transport is 'up in the air' - pun intended...
 
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Andrew Swales said:
Given the length of time our small islands have been inhabited by man, there can be no areas which have not been influenced by humans, in the way fragments remain in 'younger' countries...

Re-'wilding' is an interesting use of scarce land resources in an over-populated, small and hungry island, dependent on expensive imported food from often ethically questionable origins, especially at a time when the future of cheap world transport is 'up in the air' - pun intended...
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If anything we may conclude what CoVid19 signals us we can never go back to the way things we're before.

We will have to give up a good part of our footprint in order for mankind and environment to thrive. Hence, rewilding and giving up our occupied space for re-greening and rewilding - for lack of a better word - and give back to nature is an inevitable given.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
If anything we may conclude what CoVid19 signals us we can never go back to the way things we're before.

We will have to give up a good part of our footprint in order for mankind and environment to thrive. Hence, rewilding and giving up our occupied space for re-greening and rewilding - for lack of a better word - and give back to nature is an inevitable given.
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I'm not arguing against the theory, or advocating either side - but 'giving up our occupied space' does mean taking it out of agriculture, and people will have to be fed from elsewhere - ie someones else's 'occupied space' - and if that is in Kenya, or Thailand or Ecuador then it does require an aeroplane, (and a cheap one) to get it here.
 
Andrew Swales said:
I'm not arguing against the theory, or advocating either side - but 'giving up our occupied space' does mean taking it out of agriculture, and people will have to be fed from elsewhere - ie someones else's 'occupied space' - and if that is in Kenya, or Thailand or Ecuador then it does require an aeroplane, (and a cheap one) to get it here.
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This is fast evolving into another discourse and probably deserves its own thread.

What I am saying is not a theory, but the unwelcome and inconvenient reality of how humankind has come and moved so far into total depletion and destruction of the Planet's natural resources. The latter is anathema and I hate that term as it infers we can without fail use water, air, soil, trees, plants, animals and every other life form around us for our own benefit -.

CoVid19, SARS, Ebola are only symptoms of a much deeper and wider inconvenient truth: Climate change, the Sixth Extinction and significant biodiversity losses, the illegal wildlife and plant trade, bush meat and industrialised animal production systems and meat consumption, clearcut wood felling (and not just in rainforest areas), our intensive industrialised farming practices, industrial production and pollutants, the fossil fuel industry and CO2 / SO2 waste and plastic waste and other refuse freeloading and all these issues lead to ourselves mankind. And along all of the above ..... the penultimate of taboos: the reality of 8.5 billion people on this Earth is that it is totally unsustainable.

The question really is why we are A) continue to be in denial of the state of affairs and B) continue to fail in acting on the most urgent issues and challenges facing our species on this Planet. So, there is no doubt about that we can restore and repair quite a lot of the damages done, but Will We Act and Do So?
 
Andrew Swales said:
I'm not arguing against the theory, or advocating either side - but 'giving up our occupied space' does mean taking it out of agriculture, and people will have to be fed from elsewhere - ie someones else's 'occupied space' - and if that is in Kenya, or Thailand or Ecuador then it does require an aeroplane, (and a cheap one) to get it here.
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Another option, of course, is to go for the ecomodernist* approach. They propose to concentrate highly intensive agriculture in productive lowlands, thereby opening up space for nature on marginal lands whilst keeping agricultural production at a similar level. In practice however, if left to the free market, Jevons Paradox (more production leads to more consumption leads to even more production) has become a substantial problem.

Large scale rewilding, at least now in Europe, is mainly concerned with areas that are actively being abandoned (or that are already nature reserves) and not with replacing productive agricultural land. Even the most passionate rewilding advocates generally think that it is a bad idea to start rewilding on highly productive land.

* Note that ecomodernism, just like rewilding, comes in many flavours, and not all of them may agree on this approach.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
This is fast evolving into another discourse and probably deserves its own thread.

What I am saying is not a theory, but the unwelcome and inconvenient reality of how humankind has come and moved so far into total depletion and destruction of the Planet's natural resources. The latter is anathema and I hate that term as it infers we can without fail use water, air, soil, trees, plants, animals and every other life form around us for our own benefit -.

CoVid19, SARS, Ebola are only symptoms of a much deeper and wider inconvenient truth: Climate change, the Sixth Extinction and significant biodiversity losses, the illegal wildlife and plant trade, bush meat and industrialised animal production systems and meat consumption, clearcut wood felling (and not just in rainforest areas), our intensive industrialised farming practices, industrial production and pollutants, the fossil fuel industry and CO2 / SO2 waste and plastic waste and other refuse freeloading and all these issues lead to ourselves mankind. And along all of the above ..... the penultimate of taboos: the reality of 8.5 billion people on this Earth is that it is totally unsustainable.
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By 'theory' - I meant, I agree with you - but then what... that is when the practical choices come.
I really dont think releasing a few domesticated animals in a patch of Kent, will do much towards the big issues you list.
 
Andrew Swales said:
I'm not arguing against the theory, or advocating either side - but 'giving up our occupied space' does mean taking it out of agriculture, and people will have to be fed from elsewhere - ie someones else's 'occupied space' - and if that is in Kenya, or Thailand or Ecuador then it does require an aeroplane, (and a cheap one) to get it here.
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Good point ! I would add Brazil to the list too as agricultural expansion is increasing here at breakneck speed in the Cerrado , Atlantic rainforest, and Amazon ecoregions which are being swept away in order to export food to distant parts of the world..

This is particularly evident under the current administration / dictatorship.
 
Andrew Swales said:
By 'theory' - I meant, I agree with you - but then what... that is when the practical choices come.
I really dont think releasing a few domesticated animals in a patch of Kent, will do much towards the big issues you list.
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Nope, you may be right at on that particular point. But as has been suggested grazing management of larger herbivore species can improve range quality and thus improve biodiversity and ecosystem resilience while attracting new species of flora and fauna into the mix. The example of New Forest and real wilderness is a case in point.

Essentially, the UK is dealing with the same issues we have here in cultural landscapes and how to assist and improve these into more natural landscapes with a wider complement of species of flora and fauna representative of a particular ecosystem (as well as improving overall ecosystem resilience and general quality of life, even for us ourselves).
 
Part of the reason that no National Park in the UK is comparable to other parts of the world, is that there is no part that hasn't been significantly modified by humans. There are many beautiful parts of these isles but none of it is untouched wilderness. When you see the UK through those eyes you can see why wolf introduction is pie in the sky. Beavers and boar can eke out a life relatively close to humans, if left alone. Lynx will probably come into conflict at some stage. Bears, pfffft, will never ever happen.
The Blean 'rewilding' project has been on the cards for a long time. But realistically getting tough old breeds to manage the land (which is done in other parts of Kent and the rest of the UK) is more logical then shoe-horning wisent and boar into a small patch of land and call it rewilding. Much easier to manage livestock alongside the huge human population. In no way should this concept be compared to the large scale approach in other parts of Europe, as the available pieces of land for rewilding are way too small and hemmed in.
 
tetrapod said:
When you see the UK through those eyes you can see why wolf introduction is pie in the sky. Beavers and boar can eke out a life relatively close to humans, if left alone. Lynx will probably come into conflict at some stage. Bears, pfffft, will never ever happen.
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The 'Alladale project' which is rewilding a large area of Scottish glen was initially planning to reintroduce wolves among other species like Boar, wildcat etc. I think the wolf part of the plan may have already have been abandoned though. It was in the news a lot a few years ago but have heard nothing recently about this project.
 
Pertinax said:
The 'Alladale project' which is rewilding a large area of Scottish glen was initially planning to reintroduce wolves among other species like Boar, wildcat etc. I think the wolf part of the plan may have already have been abandoned though. It was in the news a lot a few years ago but have heard nothing recently about this project.
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Strangely enough I met the owner in a very roundabout way a year ago. It seems like Alladale is more of a folly for the owner, although he is very committed to the cause. I felt that is was more an overpriced 'safari' in the Scottish hills. Doubt they will ever get wolves, but if they do it will be in a very large fenced area separate from other species.
 
I am looking forward to the project. I hope they eventually get rid of cows and pigs and switch completely to European Bison and Wild Boar.

And yes, the concept of reserves in Britain in different from the rest of the world. I hope British conservationists eventually switch to more natural habitats, i.e. more forests, more natural processes like flooding or trees falling and rotting. And acknowledge that neither wildlife nor outdoor recreation need artificial landscapes of 19. century.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Good point ! I would add Brazil to the list too as agricultural expansion is increasing here at breakneck speed in the Cerrado , Atlantic rainforest, and Amazon ecoregions which are being swept away in order to export food to distant parts of the world..

This is particularly evident under the current administration / dictatorship.
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All of these invasions are illegal, landgrab condoned by a neo-dictatorial administration formed by a socio-economic elite with an axe and a very questionable political agenda to pursue for the Happy ultra rich Few. Mind the EU is not helping as deforestation and conversion for cattle ranching, soja and biofuels is a non sustainable economic activity and actually drives most of the habitat destruction!
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
All of these invasions are illegal, landgrab condoned by a neo-dictatorial administration formed by a socio-economic elite with an axe and a very questionable political agenda to pursue for the Happy ultra rich Few. Mind the EU is not helping as deforestation and conversion for cattle ranching, soja and biofuels is a non sustainable economic activity and actually drives most of the habitat destruction!
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Totally agree. What is going on is illegal , criminal , ecocidal and genocidal (towards the indigenous people who by the way are deliberately being killed either directly or through deliberate infection with coronavirus).

The EU despite benefiting from this is not to blame for this as the culpability is firmly with the fascist Bolsonaro administration , all the moronic Brazilians who voted him in, and of course the United States whose political interference and sponsored coup of Dilma paved the way for these fascists to take over.

But this is getting a little off topic from the rewilding project :confused: we are begining to go off on a tangent :D.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Essentially, the UK is dealing with the same issues we have here in cultural landscapes and how to assist and improve these into more natural landscapes with a wider complement of species of flora and fauna representative of a particular ecosystem (as well as improving overall ecosystem resilience and general quality of life, even for us ourselves).
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@Kifaru Bwana Wasn't there a rewilding programe like this in a reserve in the Netherlands that involved herds of wisent , heck's cattle , wild horses and wild boar etc. ?

I seem to remember it being in the news a couple of times and receiving both positive and negative coverage.
 
Let's be honest, the money won't be available for this to happen any time soon, it's pointless speculating! I think wildwood and its 2 sites need to worry about the losses from the lockdown first surely?
 
pipaluk said:
Let's be honest, the money won't be available for this to happen any time soon, it's pointless speculating! I think wildwood and its 2 sites need to worry about the losses from the lockdown first surely?
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I think rewilding initiatives (all over the world) often tend towards being over ambitious and some would say over idealistic / hyped and pointlessly renegade too (not my personal opinion).

So a lot of endless spectulation and drumming up of news coverage typically go hand in hand with this.
 
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