Asian Elephants in Europe 2020

Hyak_II said:
Not unexpected, but nonetheless nice news, Mingalar Oo and Ma Ya Yee at Emmen are both pregnant and due in spring of 2021. Sire is of course Mekong. Swe Zin has also been bred by Timber already, and hopes are high she is pregnant as well, although we will not know for some time. Fingers crossed the Emmen "curse" is broken with this batch, and at least one (or even better all) of the calves will be cows this time!
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Good news. Although I expected this due to the observed matings in 2019 and according to the photos from 2020, where they are already very wide. Let's hope it's maybe cows.
 
Hyak_II said:
Emmen is all one matriline now. Their animals are as follows:

Mingalar Oo (Naing Thein x Htoo Kin Aye)
  • Radza Jr (Radza x Mingalar Oo)
  • Mauk (Mekong x Mingalar Oo)
Ma Yay Yee (Naing Thein x Htoo Kin Aye)
  • Ein She Min Nayone (Radza x Ma Yay Yee)
  • Manoa (Mekong x Ma Yay Yee)
Swe Zin (Radza x Htoo Kin Aye)
Einga Tha (Radza x Htoo Kin Aye)

Plus new breeding bull Timber (Ramon x Khaing Phyo Phyo)
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Many male offspring there at Emmen. Maybe the males are surplus as males. And are taking place in zoos, which is limited. But males only contribute in an overrepresentation of the matriline bloodline by breeding. If males are not put in a breeding situation they will not reproduce.
Any new generation of calves of Mingalar an Ma Yay Yee gives a possibility of young female calves. Or there must be a way of choosing the sex of the offspring.
I can't understand the knowledge about the statement that this round of pregnancies of Mingalar and Ma Yay will be the last chance for their reproduction of female calves.

Is there anyone who can explain me?
Is there anyone who can provide more info about sex selection by the female, the male, the group?
 
john said:
Is there anyone who can explain me?
Is there anyone who can provide more info about sex selection by the female, the male, the group?
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In theory, sex selection with Asian elephants should be possible through artificial insemination.

Semen can be sex selected, and is used regularly in the cattle industry, and has also been used by seaworld to produce multiple female bottlenose dolphins. The issue with elephants, specially, being that artificial inseminations are so expensive to begin with, and at times has not very good success rates, coupled with sex selected semen generally being slightly less potent than unaltered semen, I'm not sure how realistic it would be in most cases (although for somewhere like Emmen, I think it would definitely be worth a try).
 
No one knows why so many male calves have been born in Emmen. I dont believe that it has anything to do with the fact that the original group consisted of seven unrelated adult females because that is (or was) the case in almost all breeding elephant groups.
 
Hyak_II said:
In theory, sex selection with Asian elephants should be possible through artificial insemination.

Semen can be sex selected, and is used regularly in the cattle industry, and has also been used by seaworld to produce multiple female bottlenose dolphins. The issue with elephants, specially, being that artificial inseminations are so expensive to begin with, and at times has not very good success rates, coupled with sex selected semen generally being slightly less potent than unaltered semen, I'm not sure how realistic it would be in most cases (although for somewhere like Emmen, I think it would definitely be worth a try).
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Thanks. Yes, in an artificial way are possibilities.

But in a natural way? Is there a sex selection by the female, the male, the group?
Why should one take these two breeding cows out of breeding situation? Just for the reason of possible male offspring?

What would it change if these three cows are split up in three breeding groups? Other social structure, any info about that?
 
Yassa said:
No one knows why so many male calves have been born in Emmen. I dont believe that it has anything to do with the fact that the original group consisted of seven unrelated adult females because that is (or was) the case in almost all breeding elephant groups.
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Which other breeding groups started also with seven unrelated adult females?
What has been the result of these groups?
 
In regards to other diverse breeding groups...

The three that come to mind are Koln, Ringling, and African Lion Safari.

Koln had 4-5 different matrilines breeding with two different bulls. One bull produced about even male vs female offspring, the other so far has only produced male offspring so far (5 in total).

Ringling had many different cow lines breeding with 3 different bull lines. Ratio is pretty 50/50 for bulls vs cows.

African lion Safari has 3 different cow lines breeding from 5 different bulls over the years. One bull produced only male offspring, two produced even numbers of each, another only had one calf, and their most recent has produced only female offspring except for a single bull.
 
My post above is misleading; most breeding groups consist of serveral unrelated adult females but not necessarily so many like in Emmen (where ‚only‘ six of the original seven females bred). Other groups with a similar number of adult unrelated females are/were Cologne, Hannover, Rotterdam (in the late 90‘ths), Cabarceno and Howletts (the last two with African elephants). None of the zoos had a similar discrepancy between male and female offspring.

It is not known which factors are the cause for what has happened in Emmen. I do not believe that there is a form of ‚sex selection‘ when elephants breed naturally.

And the reason why the EEP is apparently considering not to let Mingalar and Ma Ya Yee have any more calves is that Asian elephants have bred so well in the last 2 decades in Europe that zoos are running out of space not just for male offspring, but also female subgroups that need a new home. The number of calves needs to be controlled. I think Rotterdam zoo has already strechted the birthing interval for both Farha and Trong Nhi, and Dublin has not recieved a new breeding bull yet because they need to place their bull calves first before letting the females have more babies.
 
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Finally, finding out why Indra doesn't have a calf in Amersfoort yet. They found out she wasn't pregnant at all. This is surprising, because half a year ago, all the results showed her pregnancy. It is probable that something went wrong during pregnancy and the calf died. Indra's body probably must have absorbed him. Overall, this case is very strange and nothing is completely clear. But in the end, that's good news, because a dead calf could endanger her life. (Although Sri in Saint Louis has had it in her uterus for 18 years and her health is normal). We'll see if she gets pregnant in the future.
 
Not pretending to be complete.
Emmen has had 8 breeding females. Breeding with 3 different males. Offspring: 25 males, 5 females.
Ratio for Naing is 11.3 (0.2 in Emmen, 0.1 in Mierlo)
Ratio for Radza is 12.2 (01 in Emmen, 0.1 Koln)
Ratio for Mekong is so far 2.0.

Ratio Naing in Leipzig 2.2
Ratio Radza in Riga 0.1
Ratio Mekong 2.1 (1.0 in Leipzig, 1.0 i Prague, 0.1 in Amsterdam)
Ratio Timber in Rotterdam so far 1.3

Females:
Htoo Kin Aye 4.0 (2.0 by Naing. 2.0 by Radza) + 0.3 (0.2 by Naing, 0.1 by Radza)
Yu Zin 3.0 (3.0 by Naing)
Swe San Htay 2.0 (1.0 by Naing, 1.0 by Radza)
Htoo Yin Aye 4.0 (1.0 by Naing, 3.0 by Radza) + 0.1 by Naing and in Mierlo 0.1 by Sibu
Thi Ha Phyu 2.0 by Naing and in Koln 1.1 (by Bindu and Sang Raja)
Kaing Lwin Htoo 2.0 by Naing and 0.1 by Radza and in Koln 1.0 by Sang Raja

Breeding female offspring
0.1 Mingalar 5.0 (4.0 by Radza, 1.0 by Mekong)
0.1 Ma Yay Yee 3.0 (2.0 by Radza, 1.0 by Mekong)

Not yet breeding female Swhe Zin has been paired to Timber.
 
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I wonder whether the birth of males in Emmen may be related to relatively small size of their past exhibit, relatively less movement and rather rotund shape of the elephants. It is said that good food conditions can result in a birth ratio skewed towards males.
 
It's nice to see Famhim finally arrived! Hopefully he will take after his father and older brother and be a prolific breeder as well.

Also interesting to note, Fahim apperantly had his tusks extracted several years. Yet in the video, he definitely has a bit of ivory present. Any idea what's up with that?
 
Jurek7 said:
...It is said that good food conditions can result in a birth ratio skewed towards males.
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Exactly this. There was some more detailed study pointing in that direction, but i cannot find it atm. If I remember correctly, some high carb diet in Emmen was suspected to be the culprit.
 
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