Has anyone been to knowsley safari lately? If you do, go down to the giraffe enclosure, it's awful, there's these 2 young boys and all the seem to do is just stand there and fight, the enclosure is small, their keepers seem to keep them locked away alot and when they're outside they are just bashing each other constantly, really no life for them, so face to see
Knowsley Safari Park Knowsley Giraffes
- Thread starter Si Hill
- Start date
OK so the"bashing" is called necking which is what male giraffes do in the wild and captivity. I agree the enclosure is small however there are/were plans to move the boys to the old elephant enclosure at the end of the drive through/foot safari. This is/was to become a mixed exhibit with the Blesboks and Scimitir Horned Oryx. This may however now be delayed even further doe to the current crisis.
I don't remember the enclosure being that small, I've seen several smaller than Knowsley's!
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@Embu speaking of Elephants are there any imminent plans for them to rejoin the Safari Park? Additionally why would Knowlesly house two sexually mature male Giraffes together,surely doing so is a recipe for disaster as it’s common knowledge that they bang/neck each other for domince.
If I were the Studbook holder or indeed Knowlesley themselves, I would recommend moving one male on too pastures new while bringing in some females for the remaining male. Are these Giraffes the Rothschild sub-species as Rothschild’s are critically endangered and would make breeding even more vital.
To analyse my point in my view Knowsley are being both incredibly irresponsible and wasteful holding two males that have reached breeding age. I may not be a clairvoyant/fortune teller but If the males continue to be housed together I can see the pairing ending in fatality for one if not both of the males!
If Knowsley truly want to hold a couple of bachelors then they should have got them at the same time as this has lead to both Chessington World OF Adventures and Twycross Zoo both establishing successful bachelor beards.
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Hamilton Zoo have always held a bachelor herd of giraffe without issue. The herd has sometimes numbered as high as six. Problems only arise if they are in close proximity to females or lack space:
It has been stated previously that there haven't been any further developments regarding the elephants so I doubt if they will now ever return. I may well be proven wrong and hopefully so.
Regarding the giraffes then I'm sorry but your comments are idiotic and insulting towards Knowsley and the breeding programme. Both males are purebred Rothschilds born at Woburn and are not required for the time being as I believe. Alexander and Orbit are half brothers and have grown up together so are quite happy I would have thought. BTW both males arrived at the same time from Woburn so again your statement has no foundation.
If in future you are unsure of facts then I would advise you put requests on here as I'm sure there are plenty of fellow zoochatters willing to offer help as they have done when I have asked for help.
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I get that males do that normally in the wild and in captivity, I remember seeing the old 2 giraffes doing it, and have seen it in other zoos too, but these two do it constantly, that's all they really do. One of them has a big bauld patch on its side where the other one hits it, surely that isn't normal to cause that on its skin? I have visited a fair few times over the last few months and that's all they do....... I just don't see how you can say this is normal or fair for them.
All I can suggest then is that you email Knowsley and express your concern and see what the response is. Maybe there are problems that we haven't been made aware of
(possible dominance issue?)
Necking in giraffe bulls is a commonplace natural behaviour as is the fact that bachelor herds for giraffe exist in the first place.
Aside species coordinator's for each individual species designate where giraffe are transferred to or which individuals are recommended to breed or go on to breeding situations.
Both these male giraffe are clearly not candidates for this category and so will remain for the time being in the smaller giraffe holdings at Knowsley until the new savannah habitat will be ready (plans that may have been impacted in some way by CoVid lockdowns and reduced visitor numbers affecting finance and investment plans).
Being a species coordinator - specifically for giraffe with over 700-800 individuals in your managed population - is not an easy task either and not one to be taken too lightly.
Well said @Kifaru Bwana
Again, never said that this was not a normal behaviour, I did say have seen this in other zoos I've visited. I just don't see how you can condone that these two young boys spend their entire day necking each other and one clearly has a bauld patch on them where it gets hit constantly, how can you say this is normal. I have never seen giraffes in other places with bauld patches
Obviously, you are the "expert" and the rest of us are pitiful ignorants.
I just wish one would not be so judgemental on Knowsley staff and management like they do not know their cheetahs from their red deer.
As at the moment, breeding is not really happening amongst Rothschild Giraffe. This is down to very few pure bulls in the UK alone, therefore a number of UK zoos have been put on breeding bans. Obviously there are a larger number of males than females hence the reason for bachelor herds which are now relatively commonplace.
Unfortunately it is becoming harder to move males on as of the moment due to space and the already full bachelor programme so for the studbook keeper, this already is not an easy task.
I can vouch that the Rothschild studbook is one of the more challenging, especially due to the ever changing taxonomy revision of the subspecies. A lot of the bulls we thought were pure are in fact not which means a shift of the whole studbook, something that is still constantly being caught up on.
The necking as stated is a natural behaviour and one you will commonly see in zoos, more so than others. Some zoos put their males onto a contraceptive drug even when in bachelor herds as the drug doubles up to reduce aggression between males. I can name several zoos off the top of my head whose bulls have eased off aggression levels due to this. This just may not be the case at Knowsley itself, but I can confirm that there is definitely no neglect from keepers towards the welfare and wellbeing of their giraffe
Unfortunately it is becoming harder to move males on as of the moment due to space and the already full bachelor programme so for the studbook keeper, this already is not an easy task.
I can vouch that the Rothschild studbook is one of the more challenging, especially due to the ever changing taxonomy revision of the subspecies. A lot of the bulls we thought were pure are in fact not which means a shift of the whole studbook, something that is still constantly being caught up on.
The necking as stated is a natural behaviour and one you will commonly see in zoos, more so than others. Some zoos put their males onto a contraceptive drug even when in bachelor herds as the drug doubles up to reduce aggression between males. I can name several zoos off the top of my head whose bulls have eased off aggression levels due to this. This just may not be the case at Knowsley itself, but I can confirm that there is definitely no neglect from keepers towards the welfare and wellbeing of their giraffe
Never once said to be an expert, so there is no need for the personal attack. Think its very sad that someone can not have a personal opinion, or be allowed to voice an opinion. From your comments none of you appear to work there, you have not seen what I'm explaining, so I don't know how you can defend or tell me this is normal and be rude to me without actually seeing it for yourselves. As much as you can write and lecture me on what is "normal" without seeing and witnessing what they are doing and how they look, how can you judge me
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and clearly your not in agreement with Knowsley's husbandry( this is fair enough and you are entitled to think this) all that some of us have published on here is to try and explain the reasons. Hopefully the giraffes will eventually move into the old elephant enclosure which will give them more room and will be seen from the drive through. Knowsley are in the middle of a rejuvenation project and may take time to fulfill their targets. I just hope that if the giraffes do move that their new enclosure will satisfy your needs.
Where is all this information about the new plans for the giraffes moving into the elephant enclosure? is it on the website, this would be interesting to read? Are they going to mixed with the elephants that they have now?
When my partner asked one of the keepers that was tending to the giraffes about them constantly fighting they just said they were playing and that was all the information we got.
When my partner asked one of the keepers that was tending to the giraffes about them constantly fighting they just said they were playing and that was all the information we got.
Apparently the elephants are only on a pit stop here and will move on eventually to their new home(I don't know where that is). The information regarding the giraffe moving into elephant enclosure came from a private but reliable source although if you type in about the elephant moves, it did say on there that the giraffe would move into there plus the Blesboks and Scimitir Horned oryx would also move from the safari drive with them to create a African savanna style exhibit.
Any details available on these Elephants; when they arrived, where from, age, sex etc.?
The first I heard about these elephants was a review on TripAdvisor. Sadly I've not discovered any further information but believe they won't be here for long(if they are still here)