British Isles Cup Redux - League B - Bristol/Wildplace vs Jersey

[TeaLovingDave]

It seems like eighth-rounds are THE place to go for subjects which are ripe for a lot of hot debate and close votes..... much as the match which has just gone underway in League A is an exciting one, this one is another which made me grin widely with anticipation when I saw the way the random selection had fallen.

I will be VERY disappointed if no one bothers to vote, or to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the two organisations at hand for the topic is ISLANDS..... I look forward to seeing how it goes.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Only three votes and no discussion?

 

[Brum]

2 -1 to Jersey, easy! The amount of conservation work they've carried out with island endemics is amazing. The collection they keep ex-situ is also pretty nice with a fair few rarities, including Narrow-striped Boky and Ploughshate Tortoise as two of my favourites.

Bristol get a point because they have some rather nice island species (Tree Kangaroo comes immediately to mind) and I can't not give them a point.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Jersey wins this hands down due to one of their dominant focus being on insular endemic fauna across the world (Madagascar, the Caribbean, Mauritius and the Indian Ocean islands), their collection comprising animals from these regions (and others such as the islands of South-East Asia and the Galapagos) and their enormous ongoing efforts to conserve threatened species in these ecosystems.

Jersey zoo / Durrell trust

Madagascar

Malagasy fauna kept at zoo :

Mammals - Aye-aye, ring tailed lemur, Alaotran gentle lemur, black and white ruffed lemur, red ruffed lemur, red fronted brown lemur, Malagasy giant jumping rat (first zoo to breed species and bring into ex-situ), Mayotte brown lemur, narrow striped mongoose, greater hedgehog tenrec, lesser hedgehog tenrec.

Birds - Madagascan pochard, Madagascar teal, Meller's duck, hammerkop, Malagasy ibis, Madagascar fody, Malagasy turtle dove, .

Reptiles - Ploughshare tortoise, Madagascan flat tailed tortoise, radiated tortoise, panther chameleon, Malagasy ground boa, Madagascan big headed turtle.

Amphibians - Golden mantella.

Current Malagasy in-situ conservation projects by Durrell trust - Madagascan pochard project, Madagascan side necked turtle project, ploughshare tortoise project.

Past in-situ conservation projects by Durrell trust (Largest programe country of trust) - Kirindy forest reserve project (Narrow striped mongoose and Malagasy giant jumping rat ), Lake Alaotra project (gentle lemurs, Meller's duck, Malagasy pochard), Project Angonoka (ploughshare tortoise).

Caribbean

Caribbean fauna currently and formely kept at zoo

Mammals : 0

Birds : Montserrat oriole, St Lucia amazon parrot, St Vincent amazon parrot.

Reptiles: Lesser Antillean iguana, rhinoceros iguana, Haitian galliwasp,Hispaniolan slider, Jamaican boa.

Amphibians : Mountain chicken frog.

Current Caribbean in-situ conservation projects by Durrell trust: Mountain chicken project, Antiguan racer, Saint Lucia racer, Saint Lucia whiptail lizard.

Past in-situ conservation projects by Durrell trust : Montserrat oriole project, St Vincent parrot, St Lucia parrot.

Mauritius and Indian Ocean Islands

Mauritian (and island) species currently and formerely kept at zoo:

Mammals: Rodrigues fruit bat (first bred ex-situ by Durrell), Livingstones fruit bat.

Birds: Echo parakeet, pink pigeon, Mauritius kestrel,

Reptiles : Round island boa, Telfair's skink, orange tailed skink, Round island skink.

Current Mauritius (and island) in-situ conservation projects by Durrell trust : Orange tailed skink project, Telfair's skink project, Round island boa project, pink pigeon project.

Past in-situ conservation projects by Durrell trust: Rodrigues fruit bat project, Livingstones fruit bat project, echo parakeet project, Mauritius kestrel project.


Other species currently and formerly from islands kept at zoo and bred ex-situ: Sumatran orangutang , Komodo dragon, Galapagos giant tortoise, Sulawesi crested macaque, barbirusa, white handed gibbon, Parma wallaby, tuatara, Sunda wrinkled hornbill, Laysan teal, Asian fairy blue bird, Java sparrow, , chestnut backed thrush, Ne-ne goose, Palawan peacock pheasant, Visayan warty pigs, Bali starling, Mindinaoa bleeding heart dove, Nicobar pigeon, Victoria crowned pigeon.

 

[pipaluk]

I don't think this is a walkover and without wishing to start an argument what does or doesn't count, Bristol's mammal list is probably stronger and walks it on Australasia:
Lac Alaotra Lemur
Mongoose lemur
Red-bellied lemur
Belted B&W ruffed lemur
Aye Aye
Sclaters lemur
Crowned lemur
Parma Wallaby
Eastern Quoll
Goodfellow's tree kangaroo
Kowari
Ground Cuscus
Brush-tailed Bettong
Livingstone's Flying Fox
Malagasy Jumping Rat

Don't think there is much in it either way on birds, reptiles or amphibians either

 

[TeaLovingDave]

For what it's worth all the species cited by @pipaluk do count!

 

[pipaluk]

For what it's worth all the species cited by @pipaluk do count!

Thanks for confirming, I left off one or two which I didn't think counted, though several of them have been listed for Jersey.
I'm not necessarily suggesting Bristol should win, just that this should not be considered a walkover

 

[MRJ]

I don't think this is a walkover and without wishing to start an argument what does or doesn't count, Bristol's mammal list is probably stronger and walks it on Australasia:
Lac Alaotra Lemur
Mongoose lemur
Red-bellied lemur
Belted B&W ruffed lemur
Aye Aye
Sclaters lemur
Crowned lemur
Parma Wallaby
Eastern Quoll
Goodfellow's tree kangaroo
Kowari
Ground Cuscus
Brush-tailed Bettong
Livingstone's Flying Fox
Malagasy Jumping Rat

Don't think there is much in it either way on birds, reptiles or amphibians either

Not wishing to start an argument either but Australians consider Australia a continent,

 

[MRJ]

For what it's worth all the species cited by @pipaluk do count!

How?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

How?

Because that is how the Islands category was defined by @CGSwans in previous iterations of the Zoochat Cup - Oceania, Australasian parts of the Sundas and Moluccas (although I am happy to accept the entire archipelago, plus the Philippines - which were also not counted in prior versions), and the various island chains of the Indian, Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. The Caribbean was not counted in prior versions, coming under South America, but I'm happy to accept it here too much as I am happy to accept Magagascar in both Island and Africa rounds.

The prior inclusion of Australian and New Guinean species in the category, but not species from Sulawesi, Borneo, Sumatra or Java, is pretty much the sole reason Taronga beat Chester in a hard-fought match last year! I have a feeling you were one of the people who argued strongly against Chester in said vote, actually

 

[MRJ]

Because that is how the Islands category was defined by @CGSwans in previous iterations of the Zoochat Cup - Oceania, Australasian parts of the Greater and Lesser Sundas (although I am happy to accept the entire archipelago), and the various island chains of the Indian, Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. The Caribbean was not counted in prior versions, coming under South America, but I'm happy to accept it here too much as I am happy to accept Magagascar in both Island and Africa rounds.

The prior inclusion of Australian and New Guinean species in the category, but not species from Sulawesi, Borneo, Sumatra or Java, is pretty much the sole reason Taronga beat Chester in a hard-fought match last year!

Well that is just silly. The wallaby, quoll, Bettong and kowari are continental species.

 

[pipaluk]

Well that is just silly. The wallaby, quoll, Bettong and kowari are continental species.

The quoll are on Tasmania for a start, that IS an island?! Australia was included in this category from the start as TLD points out, I think it was originally called Australia and Islands....

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Well that is just silly. The wallaby, quoll, Bettong and kowari are continental species.

No sillier than not counting species from the Greater Sundas or Philippines as "island species" but (as noted above) you had zero problem with that rule - and the inclusion of Australian species - when it benefited Taronga at the expense of Chester in a past vote and I am *fairly* sure it was an Australian who decided to include Australia in the first place, counter to:

Not wishing to start an argument either but Australians consider Australia a continent,

 

[MRJ]

The quoll are on Tasmania for a start, that IS an island?! Australia was included in this category from the start as TLD points out, I think it was originally called Australia and Islands....

The primary range of Eastern quolls is on mainland Australia, the current range is a remanent. This by the way is a situation I look forward to correcting in my lifetime.

 

[MRJ]

No sillier than not counting species from the Greater Sundas or Philippines as "island species" but (as noted above) you had zero problem with that rule - and the inclusion of Australian species - when it benefited Taronga in a past vote and I am *fairly* sure it was an Australian who decided to include Australia in the first place, counter to:

Sorry I have no memory of that. If indeed I had no problems obviously I was wrong.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I don't think this is a walkover and without wishing to start an argument what does or doesn't count, Bristol's mammal list is probably stronger and walks it on Australasia:
Lac Alaotra Lemur
Mongoose lemur
Red-bellied lemur
Belted B&W ruffed lemur
Aye Aye
Sclaters lemur
Crowned lemur
Parma Wallaby
Eastern Quoll
Goodfellow's tree kangaroo
Kowari
Ground Cuscus
Brush-tailed Bettong
Livingstone's Flying Fox
Malagasy Jumping Rat

Don't think there is much in it either way on birds, reptiles or amphibians either

It isn't a walkover but it is a decisive win for Jersey in terms of their conservation output vs Bristol's.

The only one of that species list that really counts and is sorely lacking at Jersey is the Sclaters lemur.

Some mammals and birds that are not on that list are slow loris, warty pig, Victoria crowned pigeon, Socorro dove. Another island endemic mammal species kept historically at Bristol that are interesting would include the tarsier. Agile kept at Bristol are analagous to lar gibbons at Jersey in this competition I suppose so don't really count.

Also you didn't include inverts or reptiles or amphibians or birds that are further strong points for Bristol. These would include: Cuban boa, yellow headed day gecko, prehensile tailed skinks, Malaysian giant turtle, Aldabra giant tortoise, partula snails and Lord Howe Island stick insect.

Jersey keep Livingstones flying fox, Malagasy giant jumping rat, Lac Alaotra lemur, aye-aye and historically kept Parma wallaby which are also all kept by Bristol. Another species historically kept at Jersey (which I forgot in my list above) and which they are / were heavily involved in conserving in-situ and ex-situ was the Majorcan midwife toad.

Even with all of that considered Jersey still ultimately wins over Bristol in my opinion because of its outsized conservation output .

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Sorry I have no memory of that. If indeed I had no problems obviously I was wrong.

Here's the thread in question:

ZooChat Cup Group B2: Chester vs Taronga

And your reaction to Taronga winning on the grounds of their massive Australian collection and conservation work in said country:

"Anyway I see that Taronga won so I guess I will bask in the reflected glory of an Aussie win"

The only one of that species list that really counts

Well, as noted the marsupials do count

 

[TeaLovingDave]

On a side-note, I would be interested if anyone feels up to looking into this point raised by @pipaluk , too:

Don't think there is much in it either way on birds, reptiles or amphibians either

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

On a side-note, I would be interested if anyone feels up to looking into this point raised by @pipaluk , too:

Well I mentioned the birds, reptiles and amphibians at Jersey in my first comment above and I also mentioned those at Bristol in the comment that I last posted before this one that even included inverts.


I really don't think that @pipaluk has a clue about what she's talking about.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I also mentioned those at Bristol in the comment that I last posted before this one that even included inverts so I don't think that @pipaluk has a clue about what she's talking about.

I can't see any posts by yourself mentioning the non-mammalian collection at Bristol actually!

Your last post before the one I am replying to was this:

It isn't a walkover but it is a decisive win for Jersey in terms of their conservation output vs Bristol's.

The only one of that species list that really counts and is sorely lacking at Jersey is the Sclaters lemur.

Jersey keep Livingstones flying fox, Malagasy giant jumping rat, Lac Alaotra lemur, aye-aye and historically kept Parma wallaby.

Also, pipaluk is a man last time I met him not that it matter in terms of the discussion at hand, but it's always interesting to get an insight into people's assumptions about what gender a given poster might be! I cannot recall who it was, but there is at least one member who was surprised to learn I am a bloke despite the name "Dave" being in my username!