British Isles Cup Redux - League B - Bristol/Wildplace vs Jersey

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

On another note, a pretty good counterpoint to the repeated assertions that the involvement by Bristol with LHSI is worthy of no credit in conservation terms because Australia has "got this" by themselves (despite the fact this involvement came about because Melbourne specifically wanted ex-situ reserve populations outside Australia) occurred to me; this is precisely the mindset which will probably see the Panay Cloudrunner dwindle into extinction in the coming years.

The involvement of Bristol in LHSI ex-situ management / studbook and their success in captive breeding is significant in conservation terms because apparently the previous attempts outside of Australia in 2013 by both the San Diego and Budapest zoos failed quite dismally.

Bristol were the first zoo outside of Australia to successfully breed the species and from what was learned from this and applied other zoos have begun to see success with breeding the insect too and have been able to form insurance populations. This is significant but I agree with @MRJ that maintaining a species ex-situ does not fully constitute conservation as this is holistic with in-situ efforts.

I think that if you look at the in-situ work then it is clear that Victoria zoo is the driving force with in-situ research and their management plans of revegetating the island, eradication of invasive rodents, translocation and eventual reintroduction of the species.

Ultimately, it is going to be the Australian zoos that really play the decisive role in maintaining the species in the wild whereas zoos outside of the species range like Bristol will play an important but secondary role.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Basically the same story as was the case for Pink Pigeon and Mauritius Kestrel - lack of interested new holders.

This was then more a failure of the zoo community IMO and Jersey were just responding in this way out of necessity due to lack of wider interest by zoos.

Very sad and really quite damning of the wider zoo community IMO.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

whereas zoos outside of the species range like Bristol will play an important but secondary role.

Which is something entirely different to saying:

I doubt anybody else in Australia, let alone anywhere else in the world will be contributing to it's conservation

...as was said upthread.

This was then more a failure of the zoo community IMO and Jersey were just responding in this way out of necessity due to lack of wider interest by zoos.

Very sad and really quite damning of the wider zoo community IMO.

Definitely - although it must be noted that some collections did keep breeding them nonetheless and merely ended up with lots of them which is one of the reasons there WERE any of breeding age once interest picked up again.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Which is something entirely different to saying:

I doubt anybody else in Australia, let alone anywhere else in the world will be contributing to it's conservation

...as was said upthread.



Definitely - although it must be noted that some collections did keep breeding them nonetheless and merely ended up with lots of them which is one of the reasons there WERE any of breeding age once interest picked up again.

Out of curiosity, which were the collections that kept breeding the species ?

 

[Fallax]

How long until this tourney is over and Jersey gets victory declared for "being Jersey"?

 

[Gavialis]

On another note, a pretty good counterpoint to the repeated assertions that the involvement by Bristol with LHSI is worthy of no credit in conservation terms because Australia has "got this" by themselves (despite the fact this involvement came about because Melbourne specifically wanted ex-situ reserve populations outside Australia) occurred to me; this is precisely the mindset which will probably see the Panay Cloudrunner dwindle into extinction in the coming years. A reserve population existed and was breeding, then London decided that as the population in the Philippine breeding station was doing well they "had this" and the ex-situ population could be wound down. No sooner had the ex-situ population declined to the point of no reverse, the double whammy of "seems there's none left in wild" and "a disease just killed all the captive ones in the Filipino breeding centre" hits.

It's never good to assume "we've got this" and look down with benevolent disdain on the involvement of others.

Wonderfully expressed - zoos should always be wary about putting all their eggs into too few baskets. I think the Leadbeater's possum is another example - wasn't London's highly successful breeding programme wound down for much the same reason as the cloud rats? When it comes to this species, Australian zoos most certainly have not 'got this' at the moment .

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Out of curiosity, which were the collections that kept breeding the species ?

From memory, Duisburg, Prague, Bristol and Shaldon.

 

[TNT]

@TeaLovingDave.... Luckily, without naming names, one of the newer collections to hold the Jumping rats quickly went on to breed them

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

From memory, Duisburg, Prague, Bristol and Shaldon.

Good for them and very impressed that Bristol and Shaldon were among them, but Jersey still has my vote.

How about the zoos that lacked interest? Is anyone willing to name these ?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Good for them and very impressed that Bristol and Shaldon were among them, but Jersey still has my vote.

Well, as you know I am voting the same way as you, so it's not something I aimed to sway you on

How about the zoos that lacked interest? Is anyone willing to name these ?

Don't know on that account - it's a bit tricky to find out which places turned a species down more than a decade on!

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Well, as you know I am voting the same way as you, so it's not something I aimed to sway you on



Don't know on that account - it's a bit tricky to find out which places turned a species down more than a decade on!

Yes, suppose you are right it is difficult after 10 years, but it would be really interesting to find out which zoos these were.

 

[Pertinax]

I tend to agree that Bristol's involvement with the LHI stick insect is good but not a conservation triumph.

Its not really an exhibition triumph either. A small tank with a box in one corner, which means this nocturnal species is largely invisible. There's information on the interesting backstory but the exhibit itself is very disappointing, I doubt many visitors even notice it, let alone see one.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Its not really an exhibition triumph either. A small tank with a box in one corner, which means this nocturnal species is largely invisible. There's information on the interesting backstory but the exhibit itself is very disappointing, I doubt many visitors even notice it, let alone see one.

That is a little strange isn't it ?

Being the first zoo outside of Australia to breed the species you would think they would make much more of it...

If this is what the exhibit / display currently looks like I am not very impressed either (though I suppose you could say it has a "personal touch" to it).

Lord Howe Stickinsect - ZooChat

Lord Howe Stickinsect - ZooChat

This looks a bit better though if a bit simple but stick insects have fairly utilitarian needs.

Lord Howe Island Stick Insect (Dryococelus australis) - ZooChat

 

[TeaLovingDave]

If this is what the exhibit / display currently looks like I am not very impressed either (though I suppose you could say it has a "personal touch" to it).

Lord Howe Stickinsect - ZooChat

Lord Howe Stickinsect - ZooChat

Not been to Bristol since they got the species, but given the light conditions in those photos I suspect that display is elsewhere in the zoo from the exhibit itself - which is in a very dark nocturnal house.

 

[Pertinax]

That is a little strange isn't it ?

Being the first zoo outside of Australia to breed the species you would think they would make much more of it...

If this is what the exhibit / display currently looks like I am not very impressed either (though I suppose you could say it has a "personal touch" to it).

Lord Howe Stickinsect - ZooChat

Lord Howe Stickinsect - ZooChat

This looks a bit better though if a bit simple but stick insects have fairly utilitarian needs.

Lord Howe Island Stick Insect (Dryococelus australis) - ZooChat

Doesn't look like either of these. Just a small tank easily missed by visitors. First time I failed to see any insect. I made a comment to the zoo about the display and they said they were 'working on ideas to improve it'. Returned a year or so later- it was still just the same, but this time managed to see an insect behind the box rather than hiding inside it. They don't really capitalise on the importance of this conservation story though IMO. Main problem its a nocturnal species being exhibited in daylight conditions.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Not been to Bristol since they got the species, but given the light conditions in those photos I suspect that display is elsewhere in the zoo from the exhibit itself - which is in a very dark nocturnal house.

Well I suppose it makes a lot of sense given that the species is nocturnal that is kept in low light conditions and that this might make its tank less visible to visitors.

Maybe these pictures were taken in some kind of education or outreach centre or during a talk?

Doesn't look like either of these. Just a small tank easily missed by visitors. First time I failed to see any insect. I made a comment to the zoo about the display and they said they were 'working on ideas to improve it'. Returned a year or so later- it was still just the same, but this time managed to see an insect behind the box rather than hiding inside it. They don't really capitalise on the importance of this conservation story though IMO. Main problem its a nocturnal species being exhibited in daylight conditions.

Shame really isn't it ?

I mean this is a "lazarus species" afterall and has a terrific conservation story which should be told even if it is never going to be a crowd favourite at the zoo.

 

[Pertinax]

Shame really isn't it ?

I mean this is a "lazarus species" afterall and has a terrific conservation story which should be told even if it is never going to be a crowd favourite at the zoo.

Agree, its got a great backstory and I don't think they make the most of it as an exhibit. There is an info board telling the story but then you are faced with this tiny little tank and an insect usually hidden in a box...I imagine most people don't even stop to look. Rather like Paignton and their Kiwi. I know these nocturnal species are difficult to exhibit well (unless in a larger nocturnal house)but feel they should try something better than what they have got. Presumably Bristol's attempt to think of a better method of exhibit failed...

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Agree, its got a great backstory and I don't think they make the most of it as an exhibit. There is an info board telling the story but then you are faced with this tiny little tank and an insect usually hidden in a box...I imagine most people don't even stop to look. Rather like Paignton and their Kiwi. I know these nocturnal species are difficult to exhibit well (unless in a larger nocturnal house)but feel they should try something better than what they have got. Presumably Bristol's attempt to think of a better method of exhibit failed...

Yes, I agree and also I think that it wouldn't exactly be difficult to display it in a way which wouldn't be invasive and yet would allow visitors to have a better look.

Especially considering that it is an insect and these are far less susceptible to stress in captivity than vertebrates.