Could and should the ring tailed lemur be replaced by other lemur species in zoos ?

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

The loss of the Giant Mouse Lemur is a bit of a blow, given this represents the loss of an entire genus from captivity.



Worse still, it could easily have been established had the founding population not been placed on contraceptive implants by Duke after they failed to get anywhere interested in the species, which ended up permanently sterilising the animals in question - something only discovered when they were sent to Hamerton and Banham after these collections expressed an interest in keeping and establishing the species; Andrew Swales has spoken abthe matter a few times elsewhere on the forum:





I believe most of the European and American population of Collared Lemur (which is rather higher than the 37 animals recorded a decade ago, incidentally) are now descended from the aforementioned elderly animals which Hamerton brought in from Duke and managed to establish.

Yes, particularly sad as there were once at one point over 60 giant mouse lemur in captivity worldwide. Shame to hear that there are none of these left ex-situ given their conservation status, genus, and also at the risk of sounding rather superficial because they are quite a beautiful species too.

It is very frustrating to hear that this is why the Sanford's brown lemur ended up disappearing from captivity.

This is exactly the problem that Carl Jones mentioned in his paper posted on the Aspinall thread regarding far too many zoos not actually being interested in maintaining species of conservation concern (I'm not including Banham or Hamerton in that judgement as they clearly were interested but by that point it was too late).

Although this is ultimately down to human error / miscalculation on the part of the Duke Lemur centre I don't think that we can quite absolve those US zoos early on who should have been there to take them in and breed them and weren't (but were no doubt busy breeding ring tailed lemurs like rabbits ).

Never knew that Andrew had this idea with establishing a breeding group of the Sanford's and actually managed to achieve this with the collared lemur at Hamerton but have all the more respect for him now that I do.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Although this is ultimately down to human error / miscalculation on the part of the Duke Lemur centre I don't think that we can quite absolve those zoos early on who should have been there to take them in and breed them and weren't (but were no doubt busy breeding ring tailed lemurs like rabbits ).

Duke *really* should have known better, of course, given they are supposed to be among the world experts when it comes to prosimian breeding and husbandry - contraceptive implants are pretty notorious for often causing permanent sterility and weight gain in primates; not merely prosimians either, I think most families have similar issues to a greater or lesser extent, with humans among the few exceptions!

I think the only group which has a *worse* reaction to contraceptive implants is big cats!

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Duke *really* should have known better, of course, given they are supposed to be among the world experts when it comes to prosimian breeding and husbandry - contraceptive implants are pretty notorious for often causing permanent sterility and weight gain in primates; not merely prosimians either, I think most families have similar issues to a greater or lesser extent, with humans among the few exceptions!

I think the only group which has a *worse* reaction to contraceptive implants is big cats!

Yes, they should have indeed, I totally agree, it seems to have been a pretty terrible decision to have made and I hope Duke now recognise that.

How is the collared lemur population doing currently?

Is it in a good shape genetically and in terms of numbers of zoos keeping them ?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

How is the collared lemur population doing currently?

Is it in a good shape genetically and in terms of numbers of zoos keeping them ?

Not sure how things are going in the USA, but in Europe there are about 8 public collections holding the species and a number of private collections, with Hamerton regularly breeding the species and breeding occurring elsewhere more patchily.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Not sure how things are going in the USA, but in Europe there are about 8 public collections holding the species and a number of private collections, with Hamerton regularly breeding the species and breeding occurring elsewhere more patchily.

It doesn't sound too bad, obviously not perfect, but things could be much worse.

I think Andrew ultimately made a brilliant decision to take in those animals from Duke.

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

Yes and no.

I'm all for seeing other lemurs get representation, as it's such a varied group and certain other lemurs do look more flashy than ring-tails. But one should never truly ignore a species and the ring-tail is both iconic (so it'll draw people in to its rarer cousins) and endangered itself.

I think ideally any zoo should have at least three species of lemur.

 

[Dassie rat]

There are now 7 ZTL collections with crowned sifakas. I have seen Verreaux's sifakas making balletic leaps in Berenty. I'm sure that would attract visitors.

 

[zoomaniac]

I share the opinion of @CrashMegaraptor and others here, saying yes and no.

Like another species with stripes (cough!, cough!), ring tailed lemurs are very, very popular for most (= common) zoo visitors (as well as for their look as for their bevavior). Keeping them is - im comparsion to many other lemur species - relatively easy, so even zoos with a smaller budget are able to exhibit them. They breed very well and are represented in high numbers already, what means that in case of a lost of a specimen or even a group, the entire population in captivity won't be in danger. Also, they are a proven species for walk-thru-exhibits.
On the other hand, they take away the space for other lemur species, that are more endangered in the wild and where breeding should be priorized therefore.

I think that big zoos (with big budgets) should concentrate on other species as long as they do not have a special and bigger area themed for Madagascar, but only 1 or 2 lemur species in a monkey house. Of course, in countries with tough import/export restrictions like Australia this could be a challenge...

 

[Jurek7]

Alaotra gentle lemur natural habitat is open reed beds of lake Alaotra. 95% of its food are the four common species of reeds: common reed, papyrus, cockspur grass, southern cutgrass, which overgrow wet places and lakesides worldwide. I wonder if Alaotra gentle lemurs could be kept in zoos in fenced reed beds, eventually with some additional branches to climb. This could house very large populations ex situ.

By extension, other gentle or bamboo lemurs Hapalemur, which are very closely related, could be also investigated, if they adapt from their bamboo diet to reed. Very possibly, because Alaotra gentle lemur is a hybrid population of two other gentle/bamboo lemurs, which expanded from the typical habitat of rainforest with bamboo understory to open reedbeds.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Yes and no.

I'm all for seeing other lemurs get representation, as it's such a varied group and certain other lemurs do look more flashy than ring-tails. But one should never truly ignore a species and the ring-tail is both iconic (so it'll draw people in to its rarer cousins) and endangered itself.

I think ideally any zoo should have at least three species of lemur.

Thank you for your comment @CrashMegaraptor !

I agree with you that zoos should have at least a couple of lemurs but I'm not sure that I agree with you about the ring tailed lemur.

Yes, it is iconic but shouldn't we be raising the profile of other lemur species so that they too are iconic / charismatic and instantly recognisable by the public too ?

I don't know if I'm advocating for the ring tailed to be ignored as a species either but rather I am suggesting that perhaps some zoos should stop keeping them and become more involved with the ex-situ conservation of other species.

I share the opinion of @CrashMegaraptor and others here, saying yes and no.

Like another species with stripes (cough!, cough!), ring tailed lemurs are very, very popular for most (= common) zoo visitors (as well as for their look as for their bevavior). Keeping them is - im comparsion to many other lemur species - relatively easy, so even zoos with a smaller budget are able to exhibit them. They breed very well and are represented in high numbers already, what means that in case of a lost of a specimen or even a group, the entire population in captivity won't be in danger. Also, they are a proven species for walk-thru-exhibits.
On the other hand, they take away the space for other lemur species, that are more endangered in the wild and where breeding should be priorized therefore.

I think that big zoos (with big budgets) should concentrate on other species as long as they do not have a special and bigger area themed for Madagascar, but only 1 or 2 lemur species in a monkey house. Of course, in countries with tough import/export restrictions like Australia this could be a challenge...

I agree about the ease of care and popularity among the general public of ring tailed lemurs but again my question regarding the ring tailed lemur is can zoos raise the husbandry and profile of other lemur species to the same level as Lemur catta and should it be done ?

Regarding walk through enclosures, yes, the ring tailed is a proven species. However, when I was at Parc Des Felins a number of years ago I saw an impressive mixed species group of black, crowned, mongoose, red ruffed, black and white ruffed and red bellied lemurs in a walk through.

My point is that evidently the ring tailed is not the only suitable species for these kind of exhibits and the concept could include far more species or perhaps even phase out the ring tailed completely and still be a success.

I also do feel that it is concerning that the ring tailed lemur takes space in zoos away from species that are more endangered in the wild and far more neglected within captivity in terms of captive breeding and prioritization.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

There are now 7 ZTL collections with crowned sifakas. I have seen Verreaux's sifakas making balletic leaps in Berenty. I'm sure that would attract visitors.

Yes, I totally agree and furthermore the Verreaux's sifaka is a another iconic species that although kept by fewer zoos has achieved a bit of fame thanks to a popular childrens program.

Most sifaka species in general would be brilliant to keep in more zoos and would make ideal and popular exhibits due to their bizarreness in locomotion and these being quite an active type of lemur.

Alaotra gentle lemur natural habitat is open reed beds of lake Alaotra. 95% of its food are the four common species of reeds: common reed, papyrus, cockspur grass, southern cutgrass, which overgrow wet places and lakesides worldwide. I wonder if Alaotra gentle lemurs could be kept in zoos in fenced reed beds, eventually with some additional branches to climb. This could house very large populations ex situ.

By extension, other gentle or bamboo lemurs Hapalemur, which are very closely related, could be also investigated, if they adapt from their bamboo diet to reed. Very possibly, because Alaotra gentle lemur is a hybrid population of two other gentle/bamboo lemurs, which expanded from the typical habitat of rainforest with bamboo understory to open reedbeds.

I think this kind of reedbed / wetland style type enclosure for the Alaotra gentle lemur is already in use / done successfully at Apenheul and Jersey zoo isn't it ?

Also, I don't know about the suggestion for dietary changes from bamboo to reed for other bamboo lemur species.

I imagine this would be very tricky to get right as these kinds of zootechnical / nutritional considerations need very careful research and planning and especially when it comes to endangered species.

 

[Jarne]

I don't have a problem with zoos keeping ring-tailed lemurs in mixed exhibits. They are the most terrestrial species of lemur as well as a very social species with larger groups than most other species. This makes them a great addition to many mixes that doesn't really have an equal replacement. It's the displaying of them on their own in exhibits where other species could easily take their place that should happen less often, especially in smaller enclosures lemurs that live in smaller groups and are more arboreal should get the preference.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I don't have a problem with zoos keeping ring-tailed lemurs in mixed exhibits. They are the most terrestrial species of lemur as well as a very social species with larger groups than most other species. This makes them a great addition to many mixes that doesn't really have an equal replacement. It's the displaying of them on their own in exhibits where other species could easily take their place that should happen less often, especially in smaller enclosures lemurs that live in smaller groups and are more arboreal should get the preference.

Good point about their suitability in mixed species enclosures, but I still question whether they need to be there.

Again, totally agree with your point about the lack of utility of the ring tailed being kept in single species enclosures.

Such enclosures / space could be better put to use for housing breeding groups of other species like black blue-eyed lemurs, collared lemurs or bamboo lemurs.

 

[imaginarius]

Duke *really* should have known better, of course, given they are supposed to be among the world experts when it comes to prosimian breeding and husbandry - contraceptive implants are pretty notorious for often causing permanent sterility and weight gain in primates; not merely prosimians either, I think most families have similar issues to a greater or lesser extent, with humans among the few exceptions!

I think the only group which has a *worse* reaction to contraceptive implants is big cats!

I feel like it is more the exception to the rule when a species or genus of species DOESN’T have permanent, adverse effects after having been given contraceptives, either chemical or mechanical. Look at polar bears, for instance. The reason so few are left in North American zoos is because most of the fertile female bears were given birth control in the 90s and 00s, and it rendered them forever sterile. Zoos should never have given it to them in the first place.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I feel like it is more the exception to the rule when a species or genus of species DOESN’T have permanent, adverse effects after having been given contraceptives, either chemical or mechanical. Look at polar bears, for instance. The reason so few are left in North American zoos is because so many of the fertile females were given birth control in the 90s and 00s, and it rendered them forever sterile. Zoos should never have given it to them in the first place.

I agree and to add to what you've already said it was apparently (according to Damian Aspinall) the reason why the African golden cats kept at the Aspinall parks were never successfully bred.

These animals had previously been given contraceptives to limit breeding by the German collection that they had come from.

Now there are none of these cats left in captivity outside of Africa (hasn't been for more than two decades) and they are an IUCN vulnerable species that could probably benefit from an ex-situ population in zoos or a captive breeding centre.

 

[Jarne]

Good point about their suitability in mixed species enclosures, but I still question whether they need to be there.

In many cases they make the exhibit more attractive to the general public, bringing in more money that can be used for the rarer species kept. In the nearby zoo Planckendael, they have Ring-tailed lemurs and black-lemurs together but their in-situ program focusses/focussed on the blue-eyed lemur.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

In many cases they make the exhibit more attractive to the general public, bringing in more money that can be used for the rarer species kept. In the nearby zoo Planckendael, they have Ring-tailed lemurs and black-lemurs together but their in-situ program focusses/focussed on the blue-eyed lemur.

Very good point and I know this can also be a good alternative.

However, can't a mixed species enclosure / walkthrough be attractive without the addition of ringtailed lemurs ?

Moreover, wouldn't it be better (in both conservation and educational terms) to both have the black blue-eyed lemur ex-situ within the zoo and use money generated for their in-situ conservation ?

To be honest I would rather have both an ex-situ population of black blue-eyed lemurs whilst also contributing to their in-situ conservation as it sort of "kills two birds with one stone".

 

[Jarne]

Very good point and I know this can also be a good alternative.

However, can't a mixed species enclosure / walkthrough be attractive without the addition of ringtailed lemurs ?

Moreover, wouldn't it be better (in both conservation and educational terms) to both have the black blue-eyed lemur ex-situ within the zoo and use money generated for their in-situ conservation ?

To be honest I would rather have both an ex-situ population of black blue-eyed lemurs whilst also contributing to their in-situ conservation as it sort of "kills two birds with one stone".

The problem right now with many rare lemurs is that they aren't available as much as ring-tails and seen as they only have one enclosure they can't keep both black and blue-eyed. As some of the other lemurs like blue-eye, sifaka, bamboo etc. are also a bit more difficult to breed, for smaller zoos or low-key setups these more common lemurs (including but not exclusively ring-tails) are the preferred or even the only choice. Especially when zoos have walk-throughs the more secretive lemurs also aren't an option, whilst ring-tails and other species like the popular ruffed lemurs, crowned lemurs and a handful of other species have been shown to make great species in those cases.

Whilst I don't think that every lemur mixed exhibit needs them, in larger walk-through enclosures I'd say that excluding ring-taileds would leave a gap difficult or even impossible to fill with other species. Personally I also always find it a pleasure to observe the group behavior of ring-tails, something less prominent in other species.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

The problem right now with many rare lemurs is that they aren't available as much as ring-tails and seen as they only have one enclosure they can't keep both black and blue-eyed. As some of the other lemurs like blue-eye, sifaka, bamboo etc. are also a bit more difficult to breed, for smaller zoos or low-key setups these more common lemurs (including but not exclusively ring-tails) are the preferred or even the only choice. Especially when zoos have walk-throughs the more secretive lemurs also aren't an option, whilst ring-tails and other species like the popular ruffed lemurs, crowned lemurs and a handful of other species have been shown to make great species in those cases.

Whilst I don't think that every lemur mixed exhibit needs them, in larger walk-through enclosures I'd say that excluding ring-taileds would leave a gap difficult or even impossible to fill with other species. Personally I also always find it a pleasure to observe the group behavior of ring-tails, something less prominent in other species.

Ah no, but I didn't mean the two species black lemur (Eulemur macaco) and blue eyed lemur (Eulemur flavifrons). Rather I meant the black blue-eyed / Sclater's lemur specifically.

I know there are difficulties with breeding and maintaining (problems with diet / nutrition etc) with Sclater's lemur but I believe that this may down to them being rarely kept in captivity and thus there being far less known about them and their needs than other lemurs.

Also, wasn't really thinking about small zoos / petting zoos but rather the bigger ones that are more established like Jersey.

Not sure I agree about there being gap that can only be filled with ring tailed as ruffed and crowned lemurs are quite charismatic and actually far more active and in some ways more engaging for the public. However, I do agree that there are many lemur species that due to their shy and easily stressed nature would not be suitable for walkthrough style enclosures.

 

[Coelacanth18]

@Onychorhynchus coronatus I don't understand what the thesis of your thread is supposed to be. Are you advocating that ring-tailed lemurs should be phased out completely, or just be reduced in numbers and replaced with rarer species? For now I'm going to assume the latter, since the ring-tailed lemur remains endangered in the wild as well as one of the most popular and recognizable zoo animals - but I actually can't tell for sure what your stance is from all that you've posted.

Therefore, when I look at the figures in this report I can't help but be shocked and think that some of these species may well be doomed to extinction due in large part to the mediocrity of zoos.

How can you look at those numbers and immediately draw that conclusion? There's no evidence there that indicates zoos are not breeding or phasing in lemurs because they care more about ring-tailed. In fact, zoos in the US have been making a concerted effort to breed other species of lemurs and increase their captive populations - particularly the rarer species such as blue-eyed black lemur. The fact is simply that there are not enough lemurs of other species to replace the sheer quantity of RTLs - a problem that is not resolved by reducing the RTL population.

Important also to remember that ring-tailed lemurs (and to a lesser extent ruffed lemurs) are common in many private or smaller zoos - so their huge population may actually be indicative of the fact that many zoos have ring-tailed lemurs that would otherwise have no lemurs, rather than more endangered species of lemur. Meanwhile, many mid-sized and large zoos keep multiple other species in addition to ring-tailed - a trend that is seen across other taxonomic groups as well.

Not sure I agree about there being gap that can only be filled with ring tailed as ruffed and crowned lemurs are quite charismatic and actually far more active and in some ways more engaging for the public.

Unsurprisingly, ruffed lemurs are the most common species in North American zoos after ring-tailed.

The potential population decrease is based on the fact that zoos have finite resources; every individual animal of species A is blocking a space that could be taken by B. Thus least concern species are taking resources from endangered species (at least potentially).

Potentially not being the same as actually - nobody has presented any evidence that the lack of other lemur species is caused by ring-tailed lemurs occupying space for expansion. Given that there has been difficulty breeding some of the other lemur species and that many private or very small zoos are largely responsible for the abundance of ring-tailed lemur, I would dispute the assumption that RTLs are responsible for the low numbers of other species.