Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens African Crowned Eagle from LA Zoo

[Westcoastperson]

{Note from mods - this thread split from here: Los Angeles Zoo News 2021 [Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens]}

February animal transactions: https://www.lazoo.org/wp-new/wp-
content/uploads/2021/02/02.2021-animal-transactions.pdf

January meeting minutes: Los Angeles Zoo and Botanical Gardens | Zoo Commission

Also how and why did an animal trainer for Hollywood get an African Crowned Eagle. Shouldn't they be a little more important to the zoo considering they are only found at LA, San Diego, and Fort Worth?

 

[Coelacanth18]

Also how and why did an animal trainer for Hollywood get an African Crowned Eagle. Shouldn't they be a little more important to the zoo considering they are only found at LA, San Diego, and Fort Worth?

Why should they be? I don't see the relationship between only two other zoos having the species and LA transferring and then selling their bird to a trainer. For all we know (unless you know otherwise?) the bird could have been bred in the private sector and hand-raised to be a trained performing bird, in which case it makes little sense for it to spend its life alone in a roundhouse cage slated for demolition.

 

[Westcoastperson]

Why should they be? I don't see the relationship between only two other zoos having the species and LA transferring and then selling their bird to a trainer. For all we know (unless you know otherwise?) the bird could have been bred in the private sector and hand-raised to be a trained performing bird, in which case it makes little sense for it to spend its life alone in a roundhouse cage slated for demolition.

I just feel like there could be better eagle species that are more common and there are plans to build two new exhibits for vultures and eagles in the vision plans Africa Section.

 

[Great Argus]

Also how and why did an animal trainer for Hollywood get an African Crowned Eagle. Shouldn't they be a little more important to the zoo considering they are only found at LA, San Diego, and Fort Worth?

Given the species isn't exactly numerous or breeding in those zoos it really makes little difference in that aspect.

For all we know (unless you know otherwise?) the bird could have been bred in the private sector and hand-raised to be a trained performing bird, in which case it makes little sense for it to spend its life alone in a roundhouse cage slated for demolition

LA has had some instances of this before if I recall correctly, although I have no idea on the status of Crowned Eagles in the private sector.

 

[Coelacanth18]

I just feel like there could be better eagle species that are more common and there are plans to build two new exhibits for vultures and eagles in the vision plans Africa Section.

I don't know what you are trying to convey with the statement in bold.

Where did you see in the plans that there was going to be an Africa exhibit specifically for eagles?

 

[Westcoastperson]

I don't know what you are trying to convey with the statement in bold.

Where did you see in the plans that there was going to be an Africa exhibit specifically for eagles?

nothing for specifically eagles but two exhibits for vultures which I'm sure could include eagles. They could also put the eagles in the large world aviary.
As for the statement, I think that there are more common eagles that could have been used. This species seems like it has a very small captive population so it would be better for it to breed but as @Great Argus has informed us they don't breed very often in captivity. So at this point, it's just opinion on the bird's captive status. I believe keeping it at the zoo could help chances of breeding and I would rather a rarer species like this be kept in a zoo instead of in the hands of animal trainers so people can observe the species and learn about it. I do understand why you would think it's better to be held with the trainer if that's what it was raised for and if there really isn't much hope for the species.

 

[Great Argus]

As for the statement, I think that there are more common eagles that could have been used.

Plenty of common eagles around for that it's true. However quite a few rare species are kept privately.

I believe keeping it at the zoo could help chances of breeding and I would rather a rarer species like this be kept in a zoo instead of in the hands of animal trainers so people can observe the species and learn about it.

Not necessarily, a lot of rare species are in the private sector. You'd be surprised at what the private sector cranks out. Given none of the African eagles are very common in North America and most are at higher threat risk than Crowned, rare is debatable for Crowned. Observation and awareness of the species is debatable, depending on how active the trainer is and whether the eagle is used. Crowned Eagle isn't a very showy species necessarily and so people may not be as inclined to pay it heed if it's just sitting in a zoo exhibit.

 

[Westcoastperson]

Plenty of common eagles around for that it's true. However quite a few rare species are kept privately.



Not necessarily, a lot of rare species are in the private sector. You'd be surprised at what the private sector cranks out. Given none of the African eagles are very common in North America and most are at higher threat risk than Crowned, rare is debatable for Crowned. Observation and awareness of the species is debatable, depending on how active the trainer is and whether the eagle is used. Crowned Eagle isn't a very showy species necessarily and so people may not be as inclined to pay it heed if it's just sitting in a zoo exhibit.

Even if the private sector has so many endangered species I don't think the public really cares whether a species of eagle in a movie is from Africa, and if it's needed then the animal can be trained as an ambassador at the zoo for extra educational value and also used for movies that absolutely need it. And it would still be educational in an exhibit where it doesn't always come out than not in an exhibit at all.

 

[Coelacanth18]

nothing for specifically eagles but two exhibits for vultures which I'm sure could include eagles. They could also put the eagles in the large world aviary.

That's not what you said for future reference, "the master plan has exhibits for eagles" and "the master plan has exhibits for vultures that I'm sure could include eagles" are not interchangeable statements. One is something the zoo actually said, the other is an idea in your head.

As for the statement, I think that there are more common eagles that could have been used.

Like what? There are no African eagles common in US zoos, period. The only eagle common in American zoos are Bald Eagles, which are obviously not African.

So at this point, it's just opinion on the bird's captive status. I believe keeping it at the zoo could help chances of breeding and I would rather a rarer species like this be kept in a zoo instead of in the hands of animal trainers so people can observe the species and learn about it.

The enclosure it was in is probably not big enough for a breeding pair. In any case, what is the point of breeding a species kept in the single digits? Where would offspring go? What is the benefit of "observing" a single, obscure, non-threatened eagle that is still kept by other zoos?

Even if the private sector has so many endangered species I don't think the public really cares whether a species of eagle in a movie is from Africa

Then why would they care if an eagle in a zoo is from Africa?

if it's needed then the animal can be trained as an ambassador at the zoo for extra educational value and also used for movies that absolutely need it.

Does any movie "absolutely need" an African Crowned Eagle?

I think it would make more sense for the bird - who is already living outside the zoo - to spend its time training and bonding with its handler(s) rather than sitting around in a cage being looked at by people who are probably more interested in the larger Steller's Sea Eagle pair next to it anyway.

An additional note: its enclosure space is now probably being used by those Sea Eagles, or by Rhinoceros Hornbills - both of which are threatened species with captive breeding programs.

 

[Chlidonias]

I think it would make more sense for the bird - who is already living outside the zoo - to spend its time training and bonding with its handler(s) rather than sitting around in a cage being looked at by people who are probably more interested in the larger Steller's Sea Eagle pair next to it anyway.

I think it's probably worth noting too (and bearing in mind that I don't know anything about this specific situation with LA's bird) but eagles owned by falconers are probably leading a better life than eagles in a zoo, because they actually get to fly; and I dare say that far more birds of prey are bred by private owners than by zoos.

 

[Westcoastperson]

That's not what you said for future reference, "the master plan has exhibits for eagles" and "the master plan has exhibits for vultures that I'm sure could include eagles" are not interchangeable statements. One is something the zoo actually said, the other is an idea in your head.

Ok I don’t have access to the entire master plan, I was able to find the image of the African area but I don’t have the species list. But that doesn’t matter I still don’t believe they will keep the eagles in small cages

Like what? There are no African eagles common in US zoos, period. The only eagle common in American zoos are Bald Eagles, which are obviously not African.

There are no other African eagles kept but there are more common eagles, like harpy eagles which are more common in zoos and are near threatened which is the same listing as African Crowned Eagles.

The enclosure it was in is probably not big enough for a breeding pair. In any case, what is the point of breeding a species kept in the single digits? Where would offspring go? What is the benefit of "observing" a single, obscure, non-threatened eagle that is still kept by other zoos?

In the future they will have space so holding onto the species in the future could be valuable. There are places the eagles could stay like backstage at the San Diego zoo or at the safari park.

Then why would they care if an eagle in a zoo is from Africa?

Because zoos are about education, you go to a zoo to learn, you don’t do that with most movies.

Does any movie "absolutely need" an African Crowned Eagle?

I think it would make more sense for the bird - who is already living outside the zoo - to spend its time training and bonding with its handler(s) rather than sitting around in a cage being looked at by people who are probably more interested in the larger Steller's Sea Eagle pair next to it anyway.

An additional note: its enclosure space is now probably being used by those Sea Eagles, or by Rhinoceros Hornbills - both of which are threatened species with captive breeding programs.

I doubt any movie would need that was just if it really was in demand.
The space would be better used by those species right now but in the future they would have their own exhibits. There will be space for the eagles.

 

[TZDugong]

There are no other African eagles kept but there are more common eagles, like harpy eagles which are more common in zoos and are near threatened which is the same listing as African Crowned Eagles.

Harpy Eagles are still not very common.

There will be space for the eagles.

I'm not sure how you are so confident in saying this, considering LA sold their Eagle. Until I see a reason not to, I'll trust that the zoo knows what they're doing and have solid reasoning to move on from the species.

 

[Westcoastperson]

Harpy Eagles are still not very common.

I'm not sure how you are so confident in saying this, considering LA sold their Eagle. Until I see a reason not to, I'll trust that the zoo knows what they're doing and have solid reasoning to move on from the species.

That is true the zoo probably did have a good reason to get rid of the bird I just don't like the idea it was sent into the private sector instead of another zoo like Cinnicnati which could have provided it a better home than Los Angeles.

 

[Coelacanth18]

Ok I don’t have access to the entire master plan, I was able to find the image of the African area but I don’t have the species list. But that doesn’t matter I still don’t believe they will keep the eagles in small cages

African eagles aren't listed in the master plan at all.

There are no other African eagles kept but there are more common eagles, like harpy eagles which are more common in zoos and are near threatened which is the same listing as African Crowned Eagles.

Re: what @TZDugong said. There are about half a dozen zoos with Harpy and that is a species rapidly becoming more threatened and which zoos (including LA) actually *are* attempting to breed. I don't see the benefit of the zoo sending its Harpy Eagles out instead, given that they have a proper dedicated aviary in RotA and may not be trained?

In the future they will have space so holding onto the species in the future could be valuable.

What evidence do you have to suggest that there will be more space in zoos for large eagles in the future?

Because zoos are about education, you go to a zoo to learn, you don’t do that with most movies.

Realistically most people don't go to zoos to learn, they go to recreate. Education should be a goal and can be accomplished alongside that, but having one more species of eagle isn't going to make or break that goal.

The space would be better used by those species right now but in the future they would have their own exhibits. There will be space for the eagles.

Probably there won't be, given that they aren't in the master plan the zoo is going to dedicate whatever "space" you think the eagles could or should have to other species. If they indeed will have two vulture aviaries (also not clear to me from the plans) that seems a much better use, as vultures are arguably of far more value in terms of conservation, education and public interest.

I just don't like the idea it was sent into the private sector instead of another zoo like Cincinnati which could have provided it a better home than Los Angeles.

Yes, your opinion on that is clear at this point; it's just not clear to me why you think that sending it to another zoo or keeping it at LA is automatically better than it going to live with a private sector animal trainer. If the animal is kept healthy and engaged, what difference does it make? Zoos don't need to cling on to every species they acquire; collection planning involves a lot of different factors and optimally takes a holistic approach to deciding what animals to keep and what animals to pass on to other facilities.

 

[Westcoastperson]

@Coelacanth18 African Eagles are not listed but that doesn't mean there isn't space for them either with the vultures or in the world aviary or somewhere else in the African area. As for zoo education, people still learn things from zoos and learn about species in zoos. I once knew a kid who went to the San Diego Zoo Safari Park and kept talking about how much he liked East African Crowned Cranes. He didn't get that from watching a movie with that bird in it, he got it from simply going to the Safari Park and reading about the bird and seeing it in its exhibit. There is value for keeping these birds in zoos, especially because this is the only species of African eagles in North America.

 

[Thomas]

What about the African Fish Eagle?

 

[Coelacanth18]

@Coelacanth18 African Eagles are not listed but that doesn't mean there isn't space for them either with the vultures or in the world aviary or somewhere else in the African area.

It does mean that, because the master plan is meant to dedicate all available space to a use of some kind. If it's not in the plan, it would have to take space dedicated for something else. Mixing them in with the vultures or in the World Aviary might be possible, but I'm not sure if that works from a husbandry standpoint. None of that changes my original point though, which is that it's just one eagle.

As for zoo education, people still learn things from zoos and learn about species in zoos.

Which they can do with species that aren't this one.

There is value for keeping these birds in zoos, especially because this is the only species of African eagles in North America.

No it isn't I said that no African eagle species were common in American zoos, not that there weren't other species.

I really don't understand why you are going to great lengths to come up with rationales and solutions for keeping this one eagle. Zoos phase species in and out all the time, for a variety of reasons. I haven't heard you give any rationale for why this bird is specifically important to the zoo's overall objectives.

 

[Great Argus]

There is value for keeping these birds in zoos, especially because this is the only species of African eagles in North America

You're forgetting African Fish Eagle, Bateleur, Martial Eagle, and even Golden Eagle is on the African continent. All of which are in North America, mostly in small numbers. I think Verreaux's is the only large African eagle we lack.

Also if my understanding is correct wasn't the crowned eagle neighbor to several other eagles?

 

[Coelacanth18]

Also if my understanding is correct wasn't the crowned eagle neighbor to several other eagles?

It shared a roundhouse with a pair of Steller's Sea Eagles last I visited. The zoo also previously held African Fish Eagle, but I'm not sure if that's still the case.

 

[Great Argus]

It shared a roundhouse with a pair of Steller's Sea Eagles last I visited. The zoo also previously held African Fish Eagle, but I'm not sure if that's still the case.

Still on their website, though so is Crowned. They do not list Steller's Sea-Eagle however.