apparently he's Kifaru Bwana now...? Why the name-change?Mark said:
Javan Rhino babies
- Thread starter MARK
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MARK
Well-Known Member
I suppose all this speculation re my recent name change is rather steering away from the original thread. Please esteemed fellow forumsters let us keep on track ... here (re name-change: Mark's suggestion is sp.. on boy=man=whatever)!
I really have not got to the bottom of the genetics/DNA questions. I have waded through some scientific papers re. the Vietnamese rhinos and .. the data is somewhat incomplete. I am in a mess right now. I will write to the papers' authors next as I have some interest in DNA dung science work myself (outside this forum).
Cheers,
Kifaru Bwana (better get used to it, lads and lasses)
I really have not got to the bottom of the genetics/DNA questions. I have waded through some scientific papers re. the Vietnamese rhinos and .. the data is somewhat incomplete. I am in a mess right now. I will write to the papers' authors next as I have some interest in DNA dung science work myself (outside this forum).
Cheers,
Kifaru Bwana (better get used to it, lads and lasses)
Kifaru Bwana (better get used to it, lads and lasses)
Uhoh,I was a bit slow here- only just twigged that Jelle is now 'Kifaru Bwana'.
As you're one of the longstanding forumsters it might take a bit of getting used to the name change here. Can we call you 'Kifaru' for short?
That might cause some confusion as there is another member called kifaru. I blame that grantsmb for starting this name-changing mullarkey...
taun
Well-Known Member
World's most endangered mammal, Javan rhino, captured on camera | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Bit more recent news on Javan Rhinos
Bit more recent news on Javan Rhinos
MARK
Well-Known Member
Some resent news for Javan rhinos, A comprehensive survey of the last rhinos in Vietnam's Cat Tien's National park will start in November 2009 to April 2010, Dung samples will be sent to both the Queen's University in Canada and also to the Zoological Society of London for analysis for hormone levels to profile what animals are now left in the park, the guess so far is only five rhinos.
i agree, we should capture these inderviduals for reserch, than mabey capture some males and make a reeding program
But what zos would recieve them
singapore zoo
Chester Zoo
London Zoo
Dineys animal kingdom
San Diego Zoo?
taun
Well-Known Member
No zoos should receive them, it should be an in-situ program of research.
The whole point is to try and learn how to better protect the other population, by working out diet, behaviour and social aspects of the most elusive rhino.
MARK
Well-Known Member
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
If they are captured could it be possible for them to be introduced into Ujong National Park? or would the enviorment be too different. Certainly it would be alike enough to provide a good home being that the otehr sub species is successfully living in there???
@ MARK: is there any article I can read about the sub species only having females?
@ MARK: is there any article I can read about the sub species only having females?
to quote the acting talent that is keanu reeves:
"whoaaaaaaaaaah"
how did i miss this thread?!!! i've read a number of the posts but got about halfway in and got impatient so forgive me if i'm repeating something that has been said earlier.
okay, so, my two cents.
capturing animals from java for a western zoo. dumbest idea ever. i think you'll find anyone who suggests such actually just wants to have one of the worlds rarest species at their own zoo (and the prestige that comes with it.
capturing animals from ujung kulon to top up the vietnamese population? second dumbest idea ever. the vietnamese are hardly known for their great conservation initiatives. in fact you'll find they have a penchant for chucking a freeway, dam or quarry right smack bang in the middle of the last remaining habitat of some of their rarest species. not that the indonesian government would ever allow it anyway. the habitat in vietnam is far from ideal and far from safe and secure. best the javanese javan rhinos stay where they are most likely to contribute to their species.
translocating vietnamese rhino to java. third dumbest idea ever. all this achieves other than risk introducing foreign disease, is creating no subspecies, rather than one and a half. why would you hybridise your healthiest population? instead you hybridise your unhealthiest. not that anyone in indonesia or vietnam would go for this anyway.
so what do you do?
well things in java are going down the right track. i suspect they overestimated the population capacity of ujong kulon and that in actual fact its about there already - which is having an effect on breeding results. the idea of translocation is a good one so long as an even more suitable environment can be allocated and the same degree of protection offered. like ujong kulon - it will have to be leopard free and adequately guarded. but in any event more money need to be poured into research of the rhino first. i think the work being done there at the moment is a good thing.
so that leaves the vietnamese rhino.
they are doomed. catch them up and gain knowledge from the experience. if they catch a few - then keep them in captivity in vietnam as is being done with sumatrans at way kambas. if they can breed them - try. if they have a young female and no males, think about assisted reproduction using sperm from males in java. meanwhile look further into the possibility of animals still surviving in laos - but watch you don't step on any landmines or UXO (probably a significant factor in the extinction of the rhino in the first place). preserve the genetics of all individuals for future cloning. in any event use these animals as a way to gain experience in the husbandry of the species.
but lastly - keep the focus on the sumatrans. i know this sounds pretty harsh, but those sumatran rhino represent a distinct lineage of rhino evolution. javan rhino do not. they are the only extant rhino species that shares a genus with another extant rhino species. one thats doing rather well comparatively at that. with indians as an appropriate surrogate, cloning is just more conceivable for javans.
not that i believe that we shouldn't find resources for preserving the animals on java - just that the northern white rhinoceros and vietnamese javan rhino are not worth a cent of conservation money, if it could otherwise go into sumatran conservation.
"whoaaaaaaaaaah"
how did i miss this thread?!!! i've read a number of the posts but got about halfway in and got impatient so forgive me if i'm repeating something that has been said earlier.
okay, so, my two cents.
capturing animals from java for a western zoo. dumbest idea ever. i think you'll find anyone who suggests such actually just wants to have one of the worlds rarest species at their own zoo (and the prestige that comes with it.
capturing animals from ujung kulon to top up the vietnamese population? second dumbest idea ever. the vietnamese are hardly known for their great conservation initiatives. in fact you'll find they have a penchant for chucking a freeway, dam or quarry right smack bang in the middle of the last remaining habitat of some of their rarest species. not that the indonesian government would ever allow it anyway. the habitat in vietnam is far from ideal and far from safe and secure. best the javanese javan rhinos stay where they are most likely to contribute to their species.
translocating vietnamese rhino to java. third dumbest idea ever. all this achieves other than risk introducing foreign disease, is creating no subspecies, rather than one and a half. why would you hybridise your healthiest population? instead you hybridise your unhealthiest. not that anyone in indonesia or vietnam would go for this anyway.
so what do you do?
well things in java are going down the right track. i suspect they overestimated the population capacity of ujong kulon and that in actual fact its about there already - which is having an effect on breeding results. the idea of translocation is a good one so long as an even more suitable environment can be allocated and the same degree of protection offered. like ujong kulon - it will have to be leopard free and adequately guarded. but in any event more money need to be poured into research of the rhino first. i think the work being done there at the moment is a good thing.
so that leaves the vietnamese rhino.
they are doomed. catch them up and gain knowledge from the experience. if they catch a few - then keep them in captivity in vietnam as is being done with sumatrans at way kambas. if they can breed them - try. if they have a young female and no males, think about assisted reproduction using sperm from males in java. meanwhile look further into the possibility of animals still surviving in laos - but watch you don't step on any landmines or UXO (probably a significant factor in the extinction of the rhino in the first place). preserve the genetics of all individuals for future cloning. in any event use these animals as a way to gain experience in the husbandry of the species.
but lastly - keep the focus on the sumatrans. i know this sounds pretty harsh, but those sumatran rhino represent a distinct lineage of rhino evolution. javan rhino do not. they are the only extant rhino species that shares a genus with another extant rhino species. one thats doing rather well comparatively at that. with indians as an appropriate surrogate, cloning is just more conceivable for javans.
not that i believe that we shouldn't find resources for preserving the animals on java - just that the northern white rhinoceros and vietnamese javan rhino are not worth a cent of conservation money, if it could otherwise go into sumatran conservation.