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North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation
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Mr.Ivory
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Hopefully this one will work https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/84312539.pdf
Does anyone know currently of rumored African elephant pregnancies besides Kiki and Claire? I’ve heard there’s a possibility of Vui Musi in Fresno breeding with Amahle and Nolwazi so are they rumored to be pregnant currently?
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
All of the Sedgwick girls , Zola and Mlilo along with Litsemba, Umngani, Ndula, Khosi, Kami, Jayei, Lolly, Omma, and Disney's girls all have a high chance of being pregnant and due sometime next year or in 2023
Female's that do have a chance of being pregnant are Swazi, Victoria, Savannah, Christie, Zuri (Daughter to Christie), Angelina, and Zuri (Daughter to Moja)
These female's could be pregnant but it's unlikely are Ivory, Zahara, Batir, Makena, Mikki, Mbali, Matjeka, Asali, Lil Felix, Thandi, Seeni, Kubwa and Renee
Female's that do have a chance of being pregnant are Swazi, Victoria, Savannah, Christie, Zuri (Daughter to Christie), Angelina, and Zuri (Daughter to Moja)
These female's could be pregnant but it's unlikely are Ivory, Zahara, Batir, Makena, Mikki, Mbali, Matjeka, Asali, Lil Felix, Thandi, Seeni, Kubwa and Renee
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@John Marchwick see post #1, I have outlined cows that are possibly pregnant for both species.
@Mr.Ivory why do you say Umngani, Ndula, Kami, and Khosi have a high chance of being pregnant. SDZSP doesn’t have a bull and I have no idea if they have been attempting AI. I mean I definitely wouldn’t put it pass them to AI the girls as they have been quite successful with AI with other species but I wouldn’t say it’s highly likely.
@Mr.Ivory why do you say Umngani, Ndula, Kami, and Khosi have a high chance of being pregnant. SDZSP doesn’t have a bull and I have no idea if they have been attempting AI. I mean I definitely wouldn’t put it pass them to AI the girls as they have been quite successful with AI with other species but I wouldn’t say it’s highly likely.
I just know there was a number of Asian elephants confirmed to be pregnant according to a zoo chat user who said it on the North American Asian Elephant population thread so I was hoping that’s the same situation for African elephants
Sorry, most of us are just as in the dark about pregnancies as you are. I believe it was @NOVAElephantEnthusiast who confirmed that there are a number of pregnant Asian cows currently. Maybe he knows if there are any other pregnant Africans too.
Don’t be sorry. I just hope someday things get for African elephants. Omahas a start but it’s be nice to have more young cows breeding that haven’t had a calf yet
I’m sure some of you know by now Thorn recently tested positive for EEHV at the Albuquerque BioPark Zoo. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, and I’m started to think his mother Rosanna is pregnant. I know, they don’t really relate at all but here’s why I now think she is.
I’ve noticed some of these recent cases of EEHV the calf usually catches it when they stop nursing which is 2-3 years of age. Kairavi at the Oklahoma City Zoo was 2 when she caught it and lived. Joy was approximately 2 when she caught it and lived. And in both cases their mothers were both in the middle of their pregnancies. I think this same pattern even occurred when Kenzi at the Saint Louis Zoo caught it except she died.
However, that’s speculation at this point. And secondly, Rosanna is related to Albert, the bull that’s already there. She can’t mate with him nor can she mate with her son. If she has a calf surely it has to be born from artificial insemination. That being said, I just hope the father isn’t Sampson, or any son of Phoebe. A bull like Romeo at Fort Worth for artificial insemination would be better I think.
secondly, I’m pretty sure I’ve asked this question before but I forgot if I did, has the zoo ever tried artificial insemination with Chandra at the Oklahoma City Zoo?
third, I’ve been wondering if the Saint Louis Zoo should get a new bull to breed with Rani, Maliha, Jade, and Priya? Priya is now at the age where she can breed and Maliha and Jade need to breed asap. Raja, their current bull, is the father to 3/4 girls I mentioned. I think a perfect bull for Saint Louis would honestly be Tucker at the Houston Zoo or Samdra at the Oregon to go to Saint Louis and Raja maybe could join a bachelor herd?
Fourthly, kind of off topic but do you think Rose Tu could go to another zoo to mate with a bull like Thailand or Romeo? She has very valuable genetic diversity and if the father of her calf soon to be on the way really is Samson I mean that’s great and all, but Samson has no genetic diversity at all
I’ve noticed some of these recent cases of EEHV the calf usually catches it when they stop nursing which is 2-3 years of age. Kairavi at the Oklahoma City Zoo was 2 when she caught it and lived. Joy was approximately 2 when she caught it and lived. And in both cases their mothers were both in the middle of their pregnancies. I think this same pattern even occurred when Kenzi at the Saint Louis Zoo caught it except she died.
However, that’s speculation at this point. And secondly, Rosanna is related to Albert, the bull that’s already there. She can’t mate with him nor can she mate with her son. If she has a calf surely it has to be born from artificial insemination. That being said, I just hope the father isn’t Sampson, or any son of Phoebe. A bull like Romeo at Fort Worth for artificial insemination would be better I think.
secondly, I’m pretty sure I’ve asked this question before but I forgot if I did, has the zoo ever tried artificial insemination with Chandra at the Oklahoma City Zoo?
third, I’ve been wondering if the Saint Louis Zoo should get a new bull to breed with Rani, Maliha, Jade, and Priya? Priya is now at the age where she can breed and Maliha and Jade need to breed asap. Raja, their current bull, is the father to 3/4 girls I mentioned. I think a perfect bull for Saint Louis would honestly be Tucker at the Houston Zoo or Samdra at the Oregon to go to Saint Louis and Raja maybe could join a bachelor herd?
Fourthly, kind of off topic but do you think Rose Tu could go to another zoo to mate with a bull like Thailand or Romeo? She has very valuable genetic diversity and if the father of her calf soon to be on the way really is Samson I mean that’s great and all, but Samson has no genetic diversity at all
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Rozana is not related to Albert in any way, her daughter Jazmine is Albert's niece, so Rozana can mate with Albert though I would prefer if Sneezy would head to Albuquerque to mate with Rozana and Jasmine.
OKC city zoo has tired to artificial insemination with Chandra twice now with Rex as the donor.
I do agree that Samdra is a good choice for St.Louis or Ongard from Miami.
Rose Tu will not leave Oregon a but a bull of much more genetic value that could head Oregon could be Groucho, or even Spike
Yes, we’ve discussed this in the other thread. Moms milk is very beneficial to a young calf and can help prevent a calf from contracting the virus. Pregnancies don’t directly correlate to the cows calves getting EEHV but often times cows will start to wean their calves which leads to more susceptibility to the virus. Also Rani was not pregnant when her daughter Kenzi died of EEHV, she became pregnant a few months after Kenzi’s death. In some cases, like with Lily of Oregon, calves get the virus and die from it because of new animals (ie Samson) being introduced to the herd that have been exposed to the virus.
Like Mr.Ivory already said, Albert is not related to Rozie. That being said I wouldn’t be too surprised if they had AI’d her anyway since most if not all her calves have been born via AI despite having two bulls on site. I don’t think ABQ is going to get a new bull anytime soon anyway.
I can confirm that despite Chandra being inseminated a couple of times in the past, she is not and probably will never become pregnant. Also, just putting it out there, if you don’t remember something just go back in the threads and look. There’s no point in discussing the same thing over and over again.
Samudra would be a good choice as he is very genetically valuable. Ongard isn’t going anywhere, he’s staying at Miami for the foreseeable future. That being said I have a feeling STL is going to end up AI-ing raja’s daughters rather than bringing in a new bull.
Why would Rose leave? I highly doubt Oregon would want to give away their only breeding cow who also is a descendant of their first ever elephant. Ive heard numerous times that Spike is staying at Smithsonian permanently so that’s a no for Oregon. If I’m being honest, there’s an extremely low chance the SSP is going to replace Samson. He just moved to Oregon 3 years ago and hasn’t sired any offspring there.
Like Mr.Ivory already said, Albert is not related to Rozie. That being said I wouldn’t be too surprised if they had AI’d her anyway since most if not all her calves have been born via AI despite having two bulls on site. I don’t think ABQ is going to get a new bull anytime soon anyway.
I can confirm that despite Chandra being inseminated a couple of times in the past, she is not and probably will never become pregnant. Also, just putting it out there, if you don’t remember something just go back in the threads and look. There’s no point in discussing the same thing over and over again.
Samudra would be a good choice as he is very genetically valuable. Ongard isn’t going anywhere, he’s staying at Miami for the foreseeable future. That being said I have a feeling STL is going to end up AI-ing raja’s daughters rather than bringing in a new bull.
Why would Rose leave? I highly doubt Oregon would want to give away their only breeding cow who also is a descendant of their first ever elephant. Ive heard numerous times that Spike is staying at Smithsonian permanently so that’s a no for Oregon. If I’m being honest, there’s an extremely low chance the SSP is going to replace Samson. He just moved to Oregon 3 years ago and hasn’t sired any offspring there.
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@Animals R AMAZING!
noted with Chandra
regarding Rose Tu I’m still new to all of this. My guesses maybe a bit out there sometimes and I apologize for that.
and regarding Kenzi that one I wasn’t sure and I merely said I thought that was the case
noted with Chandra
regarding Rose Tu I’m still new to all of this. My guesses maybe a bit out there sometimes and I apologize for that.
and regarding Kenzi that one I wasn’t sure and I merely said I thought that was the case
Asian elephant calf dies of elephant endotheliotropic herpesvirus — City of Albuquerque
Such a tragedy Thorns death. That means Jasmine is the only surviving calf of Rosanna’s left.
I’ve been wondering, this may be a bad time but does gender have anything to do with how EEHV acts towards elephants. As of January 2019 there have been 13 cases I recall of EEHV detected in African and Asian Elephants in the US. In 2019, 2 young females Kalina and Nyah both died of the virus at the Indianapolis Zoo. 3 additional elephants (Zahara, Kedar, and Ivory) at the Indianapolis zoo also caught it but survived it. In addition Joy at the Houston Zoo caught it but she managed. In 2020 3 elephants caught the virus (Zuberi at Sedgwick County Zoo and Batu and Ajay at the Rosamond Griffith Zoo Zoo) caught the virus. Zuberi survived but Ajay and Batu both died from the virus. In 2021, two African elephants (Ajabu at the Dallas Zoo and Lucas at the Toledo Zoo caught the virus). Ajabu survived but Lucas survived. Also in 2021 Two Asian Elephants (Thorn at Albuquerque and Kairavi at the Oklahoma City Zoo) caught the virus. Kairavi survived but Thorn died.
I’m getting to my question now. Those elephants I’ve mentioned, the overwhelming majority that survived it have been females. Aside from Kedar and Ajabu who are both male African elephants,
Ivory, Zahara, Joy, Zuberi and Kairavi are all females. So do females tend to have a better chance of surviving EEHV or is this just a coincidence?
Such a tragedy Thorns death. That means Jasmine is the only surviving calf of Rosanna’s left.
I’ve been wondering, this may be a bad time but does gender have anything to do with how EEHV acts towards elephants. As of January 2019 there have been 13 cases I recall of EEHV detected in African and Asian Elephants in the US. In 2019, 2 young females Kalina and Nyah both died of the virus at the Indianapolis Zoo. 3 additional elephants (Zahara, Kedar, and Ivory) at the Indianapolis zoo also caught it but survived it. In addition Joy at the Houston Zoo caught it but she managed. In 2020 3 elephants caught the virus (Zuberi at Sedgwick County Zoo and Batu and Ajay at the Rosamond Griffith Zoo Zoo) caught the virus. Zuberi survived but Ajay and Batu both died from the virus. In 2021, two African elephants (Ajabu at the Dallas Zoo and Lucas at the Toledo Zoo caught the virus). Ajabu survived but Lucas survived. Also in 2021 Two Asian Elephants (Thorn at Albuquerque and Kairavi at the Oklahoma City Zoo) caught the virus. Kairavi survived but Thorn died.
I’m getting to my question now. Those elephants I’ve mentioned, the overwhelming majority that survived it have been females. Aside from Kedar and Ajabu who are both male African elephants,
Ivory, Zahara, Joy, Zuberi and Kairavi are all females. So do females tend to have a better chance of surviving EEHV or is this just a coincidence?
There is no proof that female calves have more immunity to the virus. There is an equal amount of female calves lost as males especially when you include Europe’s calves as well as calves lost in earlier years. Also Ivory did not catch the virus, she is an adult female.
'Devastating' virus killed 2 Indianapolis Zoo elephants. Their deaths may save others.
@Animals R AMAZING! They found antibodies to EEHV3 in Ivory and she did catch it during the 2019 outbreak
@Animals R AMAZING! They found antibodies to EEHV3 in Ivory and she did catch it during the 2019 outbreak
I should’ve known better it was just a coincidence
I’ve been wondering. If Jasmine does survive her battle with EEHV (which I’m very worried she won’t but trying to keep hopes alive she will), do you think she’ll be bred in zoos. I imagine with her mother being so genetically valuable she will but at the same time she’s the daughter of Samson who does NOT have genetic diversity at all. I know she’s at the age where she can breed now.
Yes of course she would be bred. NA needs every single cow possible breeding, regardless of genetic value.
I’ve been wondering with Houston Zoos elephant herd getting so large, how many elephants can they have? Also, I’m kind of confused why Tucker hasn’t been used for breeding yet considering he’s genetically valuable last I heard.
Maybe Tucker could go to the Albuquerque Zoo to mate with Rosanna and Jasmine? I know that sounds unlikely but they could keep Albert and then Tucker and Albert could be their own bachelor herd? I know Tucker is old enough to breed and quite frankly I want him breeding preferably over Albert because Albert has no genetic diversity at all because he’s related to Samson.
Maybe Tucker could go to the Albuquerque Zoo to mate with Rosanna and Jasmine? I know that sounds unlikely but they could keep Albert and then Tucker and Albert could be their own bachelor herd? I know Tucker is old enough to breed and quite frankly I want him breeding preferably over Albert because Albert has no genetic diversity at all because he’s related to Samson.
Check the other Asian elephant threads for more discussion and information on this but I will say Tucker hasn't been used to breeding since he's related to two of Houston's breeding cows Tess and Tupelo. While he is unrelated to Shanti, Houston's other mature bull Thai is more valuable and much older and they want him breeding her. Tucker will likely breed Shanti and her daughter Joy in the future while his mom Tess and their female relatives (Tupelo, Tilly, Winnie) may be sent out.
Tucker isn't actually that valuable, his half sister Natasha at ALS has been quite prolific and has several offspring and grandoffspring. One of his half brothers Samudra is at Oregon and the other Nikolai is in Europe but has produced over 15 offspring.