Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022

[Jambo]

Thank you, @Zoofan15. After doing an overview of the U.S. Asian elephant population, I think the following institutions, from probable to possible, would be the best, potential candidates to receive Burma.

Honolulu Zoo - Honolulu, Hawaii
• Honolulu would be the perfect forever home for Burma! Honolulu currently has two cows, Mari (7 years older than Burma) and Vaigai (3 years younger than Burma), who would, theoretically, be great companions for Burma. Also, adding Burma to their herd would enhance the current dynamics at Honolulu, and bring the herd to three, the minimum number by AZA standards. In addition, the elephant facility received a major upgrade a few years back, so Burma would be living in a state-of-the-art facility. Further, the climate in Honolulu is comparable to that of Southeast Asia. Honolulu checks all the boxes.

Los Angeles Zoo - Los Angeles, California
• Los Angeles currently has three older cows and a mature bull, who would, theoretically, make great companions for Burma. Also, their elephant facility is one of the best in the country, and has the space to accommodate more elephants.

San Diego Zoo - San Diego, California
• San Diego currently has two older Asian cows, who would, theoretically, be great companions for Burma, especially Mary, the social butterfly of the herd. Also, San Diego specializes in caring for elephants in their golden years, so Burma would receive the best of care as she gets older. However, with the recent acquisition of two adolescent African bulls, it appears San Diego may be transitioning from geriatric to bachelor.

Miami Zoo - Miami, Florida
• Miami currently has two (1.1) older Asian elephants, who would, theoretically, be great companions for Burma, and Ongard, the adolescent Asian bull from Melbourne. I'm not sure if Miami intends to transition from geriatric to breeding once Dalip and Nellie pass away but, regardless, Miami does have a great facility for their elephants.

Audubon Zoo - New Orleans, Louisiana
• Audubon currently has three older cows (two of which are pretty much the same age as Burma), who would, theoretically, be great companions for Burma. Also, the elephant facility received a significant upgrade a few years back, so Burma would be living in a state-of-the-art facility.

I believe Miami has plans to become a breeding facility once Dalip and Nellie pass; that's why Ongard was transferred there, although he's owned by San Diego. There were talks of him being used for AI in the meantime, but i'm unaware if he's begun training for such procedure.

San Diego, LA and Honolulu are the likely options for me. LA would be great for Burma, suits all the categories. Honolulu definitely seems most likely, with a new state of the art facility and only two cows. San Diego have five elephants already, and although they could hold a sixth, i'm not entirely sure. Still we can't rule them out, they've had connections with NZ in the past, namely the Mila transfer.

 

[Swanson02]

Auckland Zoo - Update on Burma

Burma is enjoying the attention that comes from being the zoo’s only elephant. While she and Anjalee were amicable, they were largely independent of each other and also enjoyed their own company.

I spoke to a keeper who advised the zoo have given up on trying to relocate her within the region as there’s no Australian zoos that are suitable or willing to receive her.

The search for a new zoo is now focussed on the USA. I will tag @Elephant Enthusiast who has an extensive knowledge of their facilities and has prepared a list of the most likely host candidates.

Sad news for the region that we will lose another elephant but good news for Burma and Auckland. I personally think Honolulu or San Diego would be the best choices for her.
A few questions, how long would a transfer take? is it still around 2 years?

Also which of these facilities practice free contact? I was just wondering if this is an aspect that Auckland might want the zoo that receives her to continue. The only zoos in Australia that are currently practicing free contact with their elephants are Perth (phasing out) and Australia Zoo who can't take her for obvious reasons. Maybe because of her more timid personality continuing this aspect of her management is important once she moves?

Also, did the Auckland keeper give any reasons for why the other zoos in Australia were unsuitable for her?

Her leaving also leaves Permai and Tricia as the last two cows in the region outside of a multigenerational herd, almost ending the 170-year practice of holding cows either singularly or in small unreproductive groups.

 

[Zoofan15]

Sad news for the region that we will lose another elephant but good news for Burma and Auckland. I personally think Honolulu or San Diego would be the best choices for her.
A few questions, how long would a transfer take? is it still around 2 years?

Also which of these facilities practice free contact? I was just wondering if this is an aspect that Auckland might want the zoo that receives her to continue. The only zoos in Australia that are currently practicing free contact with their elephants are Perth (phasing out) and Australia Zoo who can't take her for obvious reasons. Maybe because of her more timid personality continuing this aspect of her management is important once she moves?

Also, did the Auckland keeper give any reasons for why the other zoos in Australia were unsuitable for her?

Her leaving also leaves Permai and Tricia as the last two cows in the region outside of a multigenerational herd, almost ending the 170-year practice of holding cows either singularly or in small unreproductive groups.

It will be a great loss of a popular exhibit at Auckland Zoo. They’re very much a part of the zoo’s heritage, having been there since 1923. It’s an inevitable move though and one I support given Burma’s welfare needs. I hope they find an excellent home for her.

All AZA zoos practice protected contact (with exceptions for health and welfare procedures), though it should be noted that Australia Zoo was chosen for their stance on free contact - which would have provided a continuation of this practice for Burma.

The keeper only mentioned Perth Zoo being unsuitable as they’re also phasing out; but I imagine there would be a general reluctance to take on an elephant that’s unable to breed and has the potential to disrupt the herd dynamics of any receiving zoo. Many will have a don’t rock the boat approach in that regard given the factions we’ve seen in overseas elephant herds. Space would also be a consideration with zoos like Melbourne already at capacity.

Good point! Soon all elephants will be held in multigenerational herds and largely held within open range zoos. It’ll be interesting to see where Taronga and Sydney Zoo go over the next decade or so, but maintaining bachelor bulls seems probable.

 

[ZCChip]

Do I understand it correctly that Auckland and an USA zoo are willing to spend a large amount of money on exporting/importing a cow that is no longer breeding viable? Of course, a good home is imperative but that’s a lot of money!!

 

[Zoofan15]

Do I understand it correctly that Auckland and an USA zoo are willing to spend a large amount of money on exporting/importing a cow that is no longer breeding viable? Of course, a good home is imperative but that’s a lot of money!!

Yes, Auckland Zoo are willing to spend that money on exporting Burma (which will likely exceed one million all up). They’re committed to phasing this species out and it’s important to them she’s found the best home to meet her welfare needs. Long term, one million is nothing compared to her lifetime upkeep costs - especially as she ages and geriatric health conditions require treatment.

Typically the receiving zoo foots the bill; but as you point out, she’s not a viable breeding cow so will have little to offer whatever zoo takes her on beyond companionship to their cows. As @Elephant Enthusiast has mentioned, Honolulu Zoo may be interested in her as she’ll take their herd to three cows (the minimum number for best welfare practices).

 

[ZCChip]

Yes, Auckland Zoo are willing to spend that money on exporting Burma (which will likely exceed one million all up). They’re committed to phasing this species out and it’s important to them she’s found the best home to meet her welfare needs. Long term, one million is nothing compared to her lifetime upkeep costs - especially as she ages and geriatric health conditions require treatment.

Typically the receiving zoo foots the bill; but as you point out, she’s not a viable breeding cow so will have little to offer whatever zoo takes her on beyond companionship to their cows. As @Elephant Enthusiast has mentioned, Honolulu Zoo may be interested in her as she’ll take their herd to three cows (the minimum number for best welfare practices).

Wonderful. Fingers crossed that all things will work out for Burma!!!

 

[Zoofan15]

Wonderful. Fingers crossed that all things will work out for Burma!!!

It might seem she’s been left in the lurch by Australia Zoo cancelling (and she has), but the keepers are making sure she’s not short of attention and there seems to be no complaints from Burma.

In their almost 100 year history of keeping elephants, the zoo has usually held pairs; but there’s been a few times when they’ve held a single elephant. Most recently, Burma was on her own for six years between 2009 and 2015; and Kashin lived alone from 1983 to 1990. It’s not ideal, but there’s no alternative while they work towards rehoming her.

 

[Jambo]

It might seem she’s been left in the lurch by Australia Zoo cancelling (and she has), but the keepers are making sure she’s not short of attention and there seems to be no complaints from Burma.

In their almost 100 year history of keeping elephants, the zoo has usually held pairs; but there’s been a few times when they’ve held a single elephant. Most recently, Burma was on her own for six years between 2009 and 2015; and Kashin lived alone from 1983 to 1990. It’s not ideal, but there’s no alternative while they work towards rehoming her.

It's great to know Burma's doing well. I'm imagining she'll be loving all the care and attention.

Burma's at least lived on her own in the past for a large period of time, so at least this isn't her first experience. Although, as you said, it isn't ideal, it's not like Burma is suffering from it. Also, Burma's a very independant elephant, and i've always noted they'd always stand a little distance apart, never quite close together like I see the elephants at Melbourne.

 

[Zoofan15]

Also, Burma's a very independant elephant, and i've always noted they'd always stand a little distance apart, never quite close together like I see the elephants at Melbourne.

Anjalee is the companion Burma needed 20 years ago. Because Kashin and Burma were so mismatched in personality, the zoo took extra care to source an elephant similar in personality to her when locating Anjalee. Unfortunately the age difference meant Burma tired of activities long before Anjalee did.

Historically, the zoo just sourced young elephants with little to no consideration of their personalities. While Kashin took two years to warm to Burma; Malini got a similar reception from Jamuna when she arrived in 1961.

 

[Swanson02]

Anjalee is the companion Burma needed 20 years ago. Because Kashin and Burma were so mismatched in personality, the zoo took extra care to source an elephant similar in personality to her when locating Anjalee. Unfortunately the age difference meant Burma tired of activities long before Anjalee did.

Historically, the zoo just sourced young elephants with little to no consideration of their personalities. While Kashin took two years to warm to Burma; Malini got a similar reception from Jamuna when she arrived in 1961.

Anjalee seems to have struck up a strong friendship with Kanlaya, from a look at the pictures on social media Kanlaya now spends more time with Anjalee than her own mum Porntip

Do we know if she's been introduced to the bulls yet?

 

[Zoofan15]

Anjalee seems to have struck up a strong friendship with Kanlaya, from a look at the pictures on social media Kanlaya now spends more time with Anjalee than her own mum Porntip

Do we know if she's been introduced to the bulls yet?

Kanlaya will be loving the attention she’s getting from Anjalee; while Anjalee will be practicing her maternal skills, something she never had the opportunity to do at Auckland Zoo.

To my knowledge she hasn’t. I imagine now she’s integrated into the matriarchal herd, they’ll give her some additional time to settle in before looking at introductions in late 2022.

I’m guessing they’ll breed her with Pathi Harn initially and switch to Gung pretty quickly if they don’t get results. They want her conceive sooner rather than later.

 

[Jambo]

An update on Melbourne's pregnancies:

Dokoon is due in November.
Mali in December.
And, Num Oi in January.

These are only rough estimates as, as I was told, there's a possibility Dokoon and Mali, or Mali and Num Oi could give birth within days of each other much like females in the wild would. They do hope Dokoon gives birth before Mali as planned to give Mali a chance to witness her mother giving birth before she does.

 

[Zoofan15]

An update on Melbourne's pregnancies:

Dokoon is due in November.
Mali in December.
And, Num Oi in January.

These are only rough estimates as, as I was told, there's a possibility Dokoon and Mali, or Mali and Num Oi could give birth within days of each other much like females in the wild would. They do hope Dokoon gives birth before Mali as planned to give Mali a chance to witness her mother giving birth before she does.

That was quick work by Luk Chai, who arrived in November 2020!

It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out given the variation in gestation we’ve seen within the captive population. Thi Hi-Way at Chester had a gestation of 25 months! Dokoon was believed to have delayed giving birth to Mali until January 2010, following a December 2009 heatwave; so a similar onset of hot weather this summer could see a synchronisation in giving birth.

Either way, the summer of 2023 will be a highly exciting time for Melbourne Zoo - and the region! These births will represent 10% of the regional population.

 

[Jambo]

That was quick work by Luk Chai, who arrived in November 2020!

It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out given the variation in gestation we’ve seen within the captive population. Thi Hi-Way at Chester had a gestation of 25 months! Dokoon was believed to have delayed giving birth to Mali until January 2010, following a December 2009 heatwave; so a similar onset of hot weather this summer could see a synchronisation in giving birth.

Either way, the summer of 2023 will be a highly exciting time for Melbourne Zoo - and the region! These births will represent 10% of the regional population.

It's great to have an update and a timeframe for the births!

Dokoon conceived in January so it's great work by Luk Chai considering he was only introduced a month prior! Apparently Dokoon has a longer pregnancies than the others, Kulab and Num Oi have had in the past; so they're hoping Dokoon gives birth first but it may who knows.. Mali could give birth earlier than expected, or Dokoon could give birth later. I believe with Man Jai she was due in November so was a month late with him too.

 

[Swanson02]

An update on Melbourne's pregnancies:

Dokoon is due in November.
Mali in December.
And, Num Oi in January.

These are only rough estimates as, as I was told, there's a possibility Dokoon and Mali, or Mali and Num Oi could give birth within days of each other much like females in the wild would. They do hope Dokoon gives birth before Mali as planned to give Mali a chance to witness her mother giving birth before she does.

That's interesting because from pictures on social media, Dokoon and Num Oi, look way more heavily pregnant than Mali, but that might just be because they have both been pregnant numerous times before. It's also great to now have more accurate due dates.

Also, does anyone have an update on the construction of the new exhibit at Werribee? Has it still not started? Because I worry about the availability of space at Melbourne in 3-4 years' time when these calves are larger and more active, especially if all three are males. Construction projects of this scale almost always suffer from major delays so the likely scenario I could see is Melbourne sending Man Jai and Luk down early before construction is completed, just to free up some space in Melbourne. Still probably not the best environment for them though, with loud machinery and earthworks all around them.

I think we also have to think about Perth around this time (I assume after Tricia's passing) and where they'll be looking to send Putra Mas and Permai. If Perth isn't willing to wait for ZoosVic (as Perth will want to move on to their own future plans) and decide to send their elephants overseas like Auckland, it will be a great loss for the region, especially Putra Mas.

 

[Jambo]

That's interesting because from pictures on social media, Dokoon and Num Oi, look way more heavily pregnant than Mali, but that might just be because they have both been pregnant numerous times before. It's also great to now have more accurate due dates.

Also, does anyone have an update on the construction of the new exhibit at Werribee (has it still not started)? Because I worry about the availability of space at Melbourne in 3-4 years' time when these calves are larger and more active, especially if all three are males. Construction projects of this scale almost always suffer from major delays so the likely scenario I could see is Melbourne sending Man Jai and Luk down early before construction is completed, just to free up some space in Melbourne. Still probably not the best environment for them though, with loud machinery and earthworks all around them.

I think we also have to think about Perth around this time (I assume after Tricia's passing) and where they'll be looking to send Putra Mas and Permai. If Perth isn't willing to wait for ZoosVic (as Perth will want to move on to their own future plans) and decide to send their elephants overseas like Auckland, it will be a great loss for the region, especially Putra Mas.

Dokoon's definitely first, and Num Oi has a distended stomach which is a result of her diet in Thailand; that makes her look rather pregnant. As I was told, Mali's definitely closest to Dokoon due date wise.

The elephants are still due to move in 2024, although it would be mid 2024- late 2024. The construction will be starting very very soon. I was told it'll go for at least 18 months. Melbourne could afford to wait until 2026, which gives them a further two years so I assume it'll be alright in the end.

Melbourne won't send all elephants at once, so i'd imagine they'd go in three groups. If construction is somewhat delayed, I can see Luk Chai and Man Jai going first. If it's not, the cows would go first, and they'd have to go in two groups of four. Mek Kapah, Kulab, Num Oi and Num Oi's calf will go first, and then Dokoon, Mali, Dokoon's calf and Mali's calf. Then, Luk Chai and Man Jai would go last. I'd imagine they'd be sent within weeks of each other to allow time and space to prepare in between.

To be honest, I can see Perth waiting with Putra Mas. Permai though may be sent elsewhere as soon as they can to avoid her spending time on her own. Australia may be an option down the line; otherwise the only other option would be sending her overseas, that is if Werribee isn't available.

 

[Zoofan15]

That's interesting because from pictures on social media, Dokoon and Num Oi, look way more heavily pregnant than Mali, but that might just be because they have both been pregnant numerous times before. It's also great to now have more accurate due dates.

Also, does anyone have an update on the construction of the new exhibit at Werribee? Has it still not started? Because I worry about the availability of space at Melbourne in 3-4 years' time when these calves are larger and more active, especially if all three are males. Construction projects of this scale almost always suffer from major delays so the likely scenario I could see is Melbourne sending Man Jai and Luk down early before construction is completed, just to free up some space in Melbourne. Still probably not the best environment for them though, with loud machinery and earthworks all around them.

I think we also have to think about Perth around this time (I assume after Tricia's passing) and where they'll be looking to send Putra Mas and Permai. If Perth isn't willing to wait for ZoosVic (as Perth will want to move on to their own future plans) and decide to send their elephants overseas like Auckland, it will be a great loss for the region, especially Putra Mas.

Num Oi has always had a distended stomach (a consequence of the diet she had in Thailand prior to import); but I’d otherwise attribute their larger sizes to the fact she and Dokoon have each had two full term pregnancies prior.

The original plan was for Werribee to receive them in 2024, but like you say, projects are always delayed. Factor in Covid, and I’d be surprised if we saw them transferred anytime before 2025 (possibly 2026). Melbourne will be pushed for space, but given they’re a cohesive herd, I don’t anticipate any issues. It’d be more problematic if there were adolescent bulls in the main herd that would instigate conflict on a regular basis.

Given Auckland Zoo is now negotiating to send Burma to the United States, it wouldn’t surprise me if Perth Zoo were looking at similar options for Permai. They could find themselves in the same boat at a moment’s notice and unable to place her within Australasia.

As a founder, Putra Mas may be of interest to a North American facility himself. If they have someone willing to work with them to arrange his transfer, they may look at that given Werribee are up in the air.

 

[Jambo]

The original plan was for Werribee to receive them in 2024, but like you say, projects are always delayed. Factor in Covid, and I’d be surprised if we saw them transferred anytime before 2025 (possibly 2026). Melbourne will be pushed for space, but given they’re a cohesive herd, I don’t anticipate any issues. It’d be more problematic if there were adolescent bulls in the main herd that would instigate conflict on a regular basis.

Given Auckland Zoo is now negotiating to send Burma to the United States, it wouldn’t surprise me if Perth Zoo were looking at similar options for Permai. They could find themselves in the same boat at a moment’s notice and unable to place her within Australasia.

I was told a few days ago that the target date is still 2024, although mid to late 2024, which is almost a year later than originally expected.

At the moment, Melbourne are often keeping Luk Chai with the girls, or with Man Jai to allow the cows to have run of two of the enclosures, rather than one. It would be much better for Melbourne long term if they didn't have Man Jai, and so had space to keep the females across two paddocks and also seperate the younger calves if needed (although this would be worst case scenario).

I think it would be best to send both Permai and Putra Mas to Werribee if they have the opportunity. Permai won't have a home elsewhere in the region and would get the opportunity to integrate with a large herd and have access to paddocks and paddocks of space which would be much to her benefit.

 

[Zoofan15]

I was told a few days ago that the target date is still 2024, although mid to late 2024, which is almost a year later than originally expected.

At the moment, Melbourne are often keeping Luk Chai with the girls, or with Man Jai to allow the cows to have run of two of the enclosures, rather than one. It would be much better for Melbourne long term if they didn't have Man Jai, and so had space to keep the females across two paddocks and also seperate the younger calves if needed (although this would be worst case scenario).

I think it would be best to send both Permai and Putra Mas to Werribee if they have the opportunity. Permai won't have a home elsewhere in the region and would get the opportunity to integrate with a large herd and have access to paddocks and paddocks of space which would be much to her benefit.

Man Jai is an obvious candidate for export imo. Pathi Harn can carry on the patrilienial line of Bong Su and Man Jai is going to be well represented on his maternal side via Dokoon and Mali, who will likely have many calves between them at Werribee. The breeding programme additionally has four living founder bulls - including three under 25 years of age, so it’s difficult to imagine Man Jai being matched with cows any time soon.

North America or Europe could make much better use of Man Jai and it would free up space.

I’m not sure Zoos Victoria would agree to taking on Permai. She’s non viable as a breeder and could potentially upset the herd dynamics. Having seen the dramas overseas, they’re probably grateful the Thai females (especially Dokoon who was 13 upon import) have integrated so well with Mek Kepah. Cows can be particularly wary of incoming females when they have young calves, so this could further fuel resentment of the herd towards Permai.

 

[Jambo]

Man Jai is an obvious candidate for export imo. Pathi Harn can carry on the patrilienial line of Bong Su and Man Jai is going to be well represented on his maternal side via Dokoon and Mali, who will likely have many calves between them at Werribee. The breeding programme additionally has four living founder bulls - including three under 25 years of age, so it’s difficult to imagine Man Jai being matched with cows any time soon.

North America or Europe could make much better use of Man Jai and it would free up space.

I’m not sure Zoos Victoria would agree to taking on Permai. She’s non viable as a breeder and could potentially upset the herd dynamics. Having seen the dramas overseas, they’re probably grateful the Thai females (especially Dokoon who was 13 upon import) have integrated so well with Mek Kepah. Cows can be particularly wary of incoming females when they have young calves, so this could further fuel resentment of the herd towards Permai.

I agree, i'm surprised Melbourne haven't any plans to export Man Jai before the move to Werribee to free up space if required due to delays. I was told they plan to hold him in a bachelor group though, presumably with Luk Chai, unless the plan is for Sabai who's also no use within the region, to join Man Jai at Werribee. The US would be a great destination for Man Jai. He's unrepresented over there.

I was told by the keeper that all breeding decisions were made by a worldwide studbook coordinator, and that interestingly there were three options for being Melbourne's breeding male, including Luk Chai. The other male was Putra Mas at Perth, and then another younger male located in the US, which would've been much better genetic wise. But since Melbourne needed a bull asap, Luk Chai was closest, and the easiest option.

I think personality would come into play with Permai. All of Melbourne's cows aren't overly dominant individuals, but it would really depend on Permai, whether she may present the problems challenging the females for dominance ect. Or is she a rather subdued female?