Australasian Colobine Population

@Zoofan15 Brilliant thanks as always man, hey with the five males going to Singapore my issue was only Taronga sending them out of the region as it very seems to be any guarantee that we will see more individuals imported back to the region, so was hoping another zoo in NZ or Aus would be keen to hold a male bachelor group for a few years until females could be found.
 
Jambo said:
.... It's a shame they haven't been able to fulfill an import for a male or female, but this is likely due to the region now focusing on Francois Languars.
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Adelaide's done really well with their Duskys and Taronga with their Francois', hope that Adelaide can just continue with their Duskys and another zoo or two can get on board with the species (also endangered now) and more zoos can find the space to join Taronga (and Canberra) with Francois'. Our region is more than capable of keeping two Langur species at multiple facilities. Though have to admit am personally naive when it comes to financial struggles, importation costs etc, just mean in a general sense we have seen multiple Langur species in the region in the recent past so surely they can be maintained adequately again?
 
steveroberts said:
Adelaide's done really well with their Duskys and Taronga with their Francois', hope that Adelaide can just continue with their Duskys and another zoo or two can get on board with the species (also endangered now) and more zoos can find the space to join Taronga (and Canberra) with Francois'. Our region is more than capable of keeping two Langur species at multiple facilities. Though have to admit am personally naive when it comes to financial struggles, importation costs etc, just mean in a general sense we have seen multiple Langur species in the region in the recent past so surely they can be maintained adequately again?
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I believe Adelaide have plans to replace their Dusky's with Francois'. Adelaide have never had the support from the region breeding wise, so it'd be much easier to join Taronga and Canberra breeding Francois Langurs.

I've identified Melbourne as a potential candidate to also hold Francois Langurs, but there's many many more facilities that could hold them; Mogo, Perth, Auckland ect.
 
steveroberts said:
@Zoofan15 Brilliant thanks as always man, hey with the five males going to Singapore my issue was only Taronga sending them out of the region as it very seems to be any guarantee that we will see more individuals imported back to the region, so was hoping another zoo in NZ or Aus would be keen to hold a male bachelor group for a few years until females could be found.
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No problem. I've also just realised the obvious solution to the problem of Taronga sourcing a new male. Keo-co at the National Zoo is the offspring of Saigon and Hanoi and is therefore unrelated to Noel, Meili and Embe.

Keo-co could be transferred as Taronga's new breeding male, along with Tam Dao (contracepted); while the two juvenile males are sent to the National Zoo in their place. The only relative of Keo-co is Elke, who is apparently non-reproductive.
 
Elke non breeding:

On the subject of Elke (2009) not breeding, it would appear she's a behavioural non breeder. Elke was rejected by her mother and hand-raised in visual proximity to her parents, Hanoi and Saigon, but without any direct contact.

It wasn't until Bono arrived that Elke was introduced to another of her own kind and no mating has ever occurred. Given the behavioural issues seen in hand-raised primates, it's fortunate she can at least coexist with her own kind.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Elke non breeding:

On the subject of Elke (2009) not breeding, it would appear she's a behavioural non breeder. Elke was rejected by her mother and hand-raised in visual proximity to her parents, Hanoi and Saigon, but without any direct contact.

It wasn't until Bono arrived that Elke was introduced to another of her own kind and no mating has ever occurred. Given the behavioural issues seen in hand-raised primates, it's fortunate she can at least coexist with her own kind.
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Yes, I believe it was due to her being handraised unfortunately.
 
Jambo said:
Yes, I believe it was due to her being handraised unfortunately.
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Saigon was a bit hit and miss with her offspring:

0.1 Elke (2009) - rejected, hand-raised, survived
1.0 Gan Ju (2010) - mother raised, died
1.0 Keo-co (2011) - mother raised, survived
0.1 Nuoc (2013) - rejected, retintroduced, died

It was noted Nuoc’s reintroduction began with her introduction to the juveniles, Keo-co and Tam Bao - a luxury Elke didn’t have being the only infant at the time.
 
Jambo said:
Melbourne have multiple empty exhibits in their Treetop Monkeys trail - some surplus Langurs would be a great fit.

Adelaide (I imagine) will probably join the Francois Langur program once their Dusky's die.
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I would like Francois Langurs to come to Adelaide once their dusky's pass but would rather spider or squirrel monkeys replace the dusky's in their current Moreton Bay Fig exhibit as it will likely be filled by the Brazilian Tapir once Adelaide's last Malayan dies. For me, it would be more aesthetically pleasing to see it featuring species from one general region, rather than a mixed Brazilian Tapir and Francois Langur exhibit. Saying that I will not complain if that does happen, I'd accept anything if it means our region gets genuine multigenerational breeding programs.

Also sorry to be annoying again but do we have a list of all the exotic species in our region which are currently held sustainably?
I.e. are self-contained and stable breeding-wise? Maybe only requiring fresh imports every few decades to spice up the bloodlines.
 
Swanson02 said:
I would like Francois Langurs to come to Adelaide once their dusky's pass but would rather spider or squirrel monkeys replace the dusky's in their current Moreton Bay Fig exhibit as it will likely be filled by the Brazilian Tapir once Adelaide's last Malayan dies. For me, it would be more aesthetically pleasing to see it featuring species from one general region, rather than a mixed Brazilian Tapir and Francois Langur exhibit. Saying that I will not complain if that does happen, I'd accept anything if it means our region gets genuine multigenerational breeding programs.
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My preference would be to see Francois langur replace the Nepalese red panda in the Bamboo Forest precinct. The Nepalese red panda are basically a fill in for the Chinese subspecies here and could be accommodated within the Jewels of Asia precinct.

Brazilian tapir and Black-handed spider would be a great combination. Hamilton Zoo successfully held these two species in a mixed species exhibit (along with a Cape Barren goose that thought it was a tapir) for many years.
 
Swanson02 said:
Also sorry to be annoying again but do we have a list of all the exotic species in our region which are currently held sustainably?
I.e. are self-contained and stable breeding-wise? Maybe only requiring fresh imports every few decades to spice up the bloodlines.
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This is something myself and the other population thread authors are still working on compiling and will do so in a seperate thread I aim to get up within the next week or so.

It’s not my place to comment on the species of the other authors (I don’t wanna give out spoilers :)), but within my own lists I’d identify African lion, Asian elephant, Common chimpanzee as the only populations that are sustainable without imports for the next 50 years or so (with Sumatran tiger, Western lowland gorilla and Sumatran orangutan also sustainable if a few more imports can be sourced). I’ll provide further detail on these assessments in the new thread.

The new thread will also contain a list of species not covered by population lists. Stay tuned!
 
Sorry am jumping back past tense (in this case 30 years ago) again, but with that brilliant 1991 Primate TAG document that lists the species in Aus/NZ it states that Adelaide besides their two Dusky leaf monkeys (1.1) also at the time had 7 (2.5) Hanuman langurs and 2 (1.1) Purple-faced leaf monkeys (langurs), though as Perth's trio (1.2) at the time are listed as Sri Lankan Purple-faced leaf monkeys just below it leads me to speculate that Adelaide may have actually been holding 2 Nilgiri langurs at the time perhaps?

(Side note: Adelaide's other Cercopithecidae species at the time were a trio (1.2) of Diademed monkeys, De Brazzas' guenons (specific number not stated), Liontail macaques (snns), Bonnet macaques (snns), 8 (3.5) Guinea baboons, Hamadryas baboons (snns) and Mandrills (snns)..but obviously this is a Colobine topic thread so not relevant..but just though 10 different 'old world' monkey species was impressive for a smaller city zoo like Adelaide only a few decades back.)
 
steveroberts said:
Sorry am jumping back past tense (in this case 30 years ago) again, but with that brilliant 1991 Primate TAG document that lists the species in Aus/NZ it states that Adelaide besides their two Dusky leaf monkeys (1.1) also at the time had 7 (2.5) Hanuman langurs and 2 (1.1) Purple-faced leaf monkeys (langurs), though as Perth's trio (1.2) at the time are listed as Sri Lankan Purple-faced leaf monkeys just below it leads me to speculate that Adelaide may have actually been holding 2 Nilgiri langurs at the time perhaps?
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I can’t find any species known as the Sri Lankan purple-faced leaf monkey. All searches lead me to the Purple-faced leaf monkey, which is endemic to Sri Lanka and has four subspecies. I’d assume one of those zoos was confident of the subspecies they held, while the other wasn’t.

Additionally, this was 30 years ago and classifications have changed a lot in this time. Taronga one held a Nepalese tiger, which we now know to have been a Bengal tiger for example.
 
steveroberts said:
@Zoofan15 Yes very very true. Just found on the Cites import list that 5 Trachypithecus vetulus - Purple-faced langurs (now classified as Semnopithecus vetulus) were imported to Aus' from Sri Lanka in 1980.
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That’s interesting - only 11 years before the proposed phase out.

Reclassifications took place in the 2000’s.

These are currently the four subspecies of Purple-faced leaf monkey (all endemic to Sri Lanka):

Southern lowland wetzone (Semnopithecus vetulus vetulus)
Northern lowland wetzone (Semnopithecus vetulus nestor)
Dryzone (Semnopithecus vetulus philbricki)
Montane (Semnopithecus vetulus monticola)

Clearly Adelaide and Perth believed each had a seperate population from the other.
 
Zoofan15 said:
That’s interesting - only 11 years before the proposed phase out.

Reclassifications took place in the 2000’s.

These are currently the four subspecies of Purple-faced leaf monkey (all endemic to Sri Lanka):

Southern lowland wetzone (Semnopithecus vetulus vetulus)
Northern lowland wetzone (Semnopithecus vetulus nestor)
Dryzone (Semnopithecus vetulus philbricki)
Montane (Semnopithecus vetulus monticola)

Clearly Adelaide and Perth believed each had a seperate population from the other.
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The population at Perth were nestor and are also known as Western PFL. At one stage they had a very successful breeding group, but this dwindled to one male individual which was subsequently exported to Edinburgh Zoo. Species is now no longer in UK zoos either. Not sure what Adelaide had.
 
tetrapod said:
The population at Perth were nestor and are also known as Western PFL. At one stage they had a very successful breeding group, but this dwindled to one male individual which was subsequently exported to Edinburgh Zoo. Species is now no longer in UK zoos either. Not sure what Adelaide had.
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@tetrapod One would believe if they had a very successful breeding group that they would of been looking at the future breeding direction 2 years or 5 years or even longer and not to end up dwindling down to one last male and now the same direction Adelaide find themselves in currently
 
Zorro said:
@tetrapod One would believe if they had a very successful breeding group that they would of been looking at the future breeding direction 2 years or 5 years or even longer and not to end up dwindling down to one last male and now the same direction Adelaide find themselves in currently
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I'd assume the dwindling to one male was circumstantial and being a critically endangered species, it was difficult to source more. His export to Edinburgh Zoo represents a conscious but unfortunate decision to phase them out. It would have been nice to see a thriving regional population develop.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I'd assume the dwindling to one male was circumstantial and being a critically endangered species, it was difficult to source more. His export to Edinburgh Zoo represents a conscious but unfortunate decision to phase them out. It would have been nice to see a thriving regional population develop.
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This is my question, where is the forward planning?, If future importation is going to be difficult why not export the animals they have to a overseas holder and help them rather than sit on a dwindling population to fizzle out helping no one?. Adelaides duskys are in the same boat as far as I can tell?.
 
Zorro said:
This is my question, where is the forward planning?, If future importation is going to be difficult why not export the animals they have to a overseas holder and help them rather than sit on a dwindling population to fizzle out helping no one?. Adelaides duskys are in the same boat as far as I can tell?.
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I see your point and the remaining male was likely exported as much on welfare grounds (being a social species) as to contribute to a breeding programme.

The average lifespan of a Dusky langur is around 15 years, so at this stage it's not worth sending them elsewhere for breeding. In addition, they're only near threatened, so the urgency isn't there.

Long term, I really hope more zoos take on the Francois langur - especially Adelaide in place of the Duskys.
 
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