Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022

[Jambo]

Luk Chai was never going to be a large bull given how small his parents are. Sabai seems to be following a similar growth trajectory and will no doubt be similar in size to Luk Chai.

Together, Luk Chai and Sabai were also the two lightest calves at birth:

Birth Weights of Elephant Calves in Australian Zoos

Gung’s Calves:

1.0 Luk Chai born 2009 (Thong Dee): 96kg
0.1 Tukta born 2010 (Pak Boon): 120kg
1.0 Sabai born 2016 (Thong Dee): 101kg
1.0 Jai Dee born 2017 (Pak Boon): 130kg

Bong Su’s Calves:

0.1 Mali born 2010 (Dokoon): 111kg
1.0 Pathi Harn born 2010 (Porntip): 116kg
1.0 Ongard born 2010 (Kulab): 142 kg
1.0 Man Jai born 2013 (Dokoon): 131kg
1.0 Sanook born 2013 (Num Oi): 131kg

Putra Mas’ Calves:

0.1 Willow born 2016 (Num Oi): 103kg
0.1 Kanlaya born 2018 (Porntip): 120kg

You can see Gung's only decently large calves, were born to Pak Boon, who's rather tall and stocky herself. Tukta was an unusually large female calf, and had a similar stature to her mother.

Bong Su managed to sire the biggest calves with some of the shortest females! Kulab is Melbourne's tallest cow now, but at the time of Ongard's birth she was tiny. Dokkoon's Melbourne's smallest cow, yet birthed the equal second heaviest calf.

Putra Mas is apparently a tall male too; although not as tall as Bong Su!

 

[Zoofan15]

You can see Gung's only decently large calves, were born to Pak Boon, who's rather tall and stocky herself. Tukta was an unusually large female calf, and had a similar stature to her mother.

Bong Su managed to sire the biggest calves with some of the shortest females! Kulab is Melbourne's tallest cow now, but at the time of Ongard's birth she was tiny. Dokkoon's Melbourne's smallest cow, yet birthed the equal second heaviest calf.

Putra Mas is apparently a tall male too; although not as tall as Bong Su!

Kulab was also the youngest mother at parturition in the region at 10 years of age. On hindsight, it wasn’t the best idea to inseminate her with a bull with such a large frame as Bong Su. The resulting calf was 140kg (the heaviest in the region) and following a difficult and lengthy birth, Kulab suffered a prolapsed uterus.

This may affect the breeding decisions at Taronga. Any bull could cover Anjalee (a large cow); while it may be safer to breed Thong Dee with Gung again rather than risk breeding her with Pathi Harn. As the offspring of the largest sire in the region and a tall dam, we can expect large calves from him.

 

[Jambo]

Kulab was also the youngest mother at parturition in the region at 10 years of age. On hindsight, it wasn’t the best idea to inseminate her with a bull with such a large frame as Bong Su. The resulting calf was 140kg (the heaviest in the region) and following a difficult and lengthy birth, Kulab suffered a prolapsed uterus.

This may affect the breeding decisions at Taronga. Any bull could cover Anjalee (a large cow); while it may be safer to breed Thong Dee with Gung again rather than risk breeding her with Pathi Harn. As the offspring of the largest sire in the region and a tall dam, we can expect large calves from him.

I agree, I think Melbourne were just desperately trying to have Australia's first elephant herd alongside more than one calf. I think they learnt from the pregnancy, and instead left Num Oi until she was a little older before inseminating her for the first time.

That would make sense as Luk Chai's also a smaller bull, so size wise, is much more suitable to Melbourne's smaller cows.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree, I think Melbourne were just desperately trying to have Australia's first elephant herd alongside more than one calf. I think they learnt from the pregnancy, and instead left Num Oi until she was a little older before inseminating her for the first time.

That would make sense as Luk Chai's also a smaller bull, so size wise, is much more suitable to Melbourne's smaller cows.

Given the unknowns - whether the calf would be carried to term, whether the calf would survive (survival rate is 60% for first calves), Melbourne Zoo would have been keen to have a back up in case Dokkoon hadn’t successfully produced a calf. In any case, having two calves would be good for their social development.

Delaying breeding of Num Oi staggered the births - two in 2010; two in 2013. I imagine this was the main reason they delayed breeding her (albeit choosing to breed from Kulab first due to her being a year older). They could have done AI on her in 2009 at the same age as Kulab (a year before Ongard was born); but choose not - instead waiting another two years.

 

[Hyak_II]

The size of the bull has nothing to do with it, a 14,000 pound bull who’s 40 years old and 10.5 feet at the shoulder can breed with a 7 year old cow who’s 5000 pounds and 7 feet at the shoulder, and the calf still might only come out 95kg, or it could be 130. As a general rule, with most mammals, the females determine the birth size of the offspring, regardless of the size of the sire, or how large said offspring will eventually grow.

Also for Kulab, I think her uterine prolapse was, overall, caused by a variety of factors. Yes her calf was large, but numerous cows in North America and Europe have given birth to larger calves. I think it had more to do with the fact that she went well past due and experienced some degree of stalled labor. Those are more likely the things to cause major issues, and less so just a calf being somewhat on the larger side.

 

[Jambo]

Also for Kulab, I think her uterine prolapse was, overall, caused by a variety of factors. Yes her calf was large, but numerous cows in North America and Europe have given birth to larger calves. I think it had more to do with the fact that she went well past due and experienced some degree of stalled labor. Those are more likely the things to cause major issues, and less so just a calf being somewhat on the larger side.

That would make sense as Kulab was about a week or so overdue; but not to the extent of Porntip, who went more than a fortnight with the keepers believing the calf had died.

 

[Jambo]

Delaying breeding of Num Oi staggered the births - two in 2010; two in 2013. I imagine this was the main reason they delayed breeding her (albeit choosing to breed from Kulab first due to her being a year older). They could have done AI on her in 2009 at the same age as Kulab (a year before Ongard was born); but choose not - instead waiting another two years.

Unlike Taronga, Melbourne planned to breed their calves in pairs every three years or so. We can assume Kulab was planned to join Num Oi in 2016, and by that time all of the three females would've had two calves each. Melbourne could've then assessed their options and adjusted the breeding rotation to include Mali.

With Melbourne's herd growing, the move to Werribee was always inevitable if they elected to breed them. They're lucky Mali is their only surviving female calf to date.

 

[Zoofan15]

That would make sense as Kulab was about a week or so overdue; but not to the extent of Porntip, who went more than a fortnight with the keepers believing the calf had died.

Kulab was in labour for four days and appeared to suffer stalled labour as @Hyak_II mentioned.

After six days of labour, Porntip’s calf was declared dead - before being born alive three days later. Her labour was complicated by the position of the calf, which was upside down.

By contrast, Dokkoon gave birth to her first calf (who was overdue) after just four hours of labour.

 

[Jambo]

Kulab was in labour for four days and appeared to suffer stalled labour as @Hyak_II mentioned.

After six days of labour, Porntip’s calf was declared dead - before being born alive three days later. Her labour was complicated by the position of the calf, which was upside down.

By contrast, Dokkoon gave birth to her first calf (who was overdue) after just four hours of labour.

Yes, I watched an episode on Kulab's pregnancy. She was also a week or so late (she was initially due smack at the beginning of September). Four days though would place her only a few days late, and alongside a stalled labour, it would've made it much worse for Kulab.

Num Oi when giving birth to Sanook also experienced some sort of stalled labour if I remember correctly. Although it wasn't to the extent of Kulab's (she went into labour the previous afternoon yet gave birth the following morning).

 

[Zoofan15]

Num Oi when giving birth to Sanook also experienced some sort of stalled labour if I remember correctly. Although it wasn't to the extent of Kulab's (she went into labour the previous afternoon yet gave birth the following morning).

That would be a standard labour. Active labour typically lasts 12 hours, but the range can be from a couple of hours to seven days.

With Melbourne's herd growing, the move to Werribee was always inevitable if they elected to breed them. They're lucky Mali is their only surviving female calf to date.

It would have been nice if Willow had survived given it would have contributed to the succession of Num Oi’s matriarchal line - but hopefully either her upcoming calf or the next will be female. She’s 21 years old, so she’s still young and has around two decades of reproduction ahead of her.

Mali is fortunate to have been born to a 17 year old mother. She will hopefully have decades to benefit from Dokkoon’s support in raising her own calves.

 

[Kestrel]

The elephants you refer to are:

Taronga Western Plains Zoo:

1.0 Gung (2000)
0.1 Porntip (1992)
0.1 Kanlaya (2018)
1.0 Pathi Harn (2010)
1.0 Sabai (2016)

Melbourne Zoo:

1.0 Luk Chai (2009)

I was always under the impression Taronga’s herd were of the Indian subspecies, but if you have information to the contrary, we’d love to hear more (including details of sources). Sri Lankan ancestry may account for Porntip’s tall stature - especially compared to small we females Thong Dee.

I got my information from ZIMS, and according to that Western Plains Zoo has 0.1 generic (zoomix) Asian elephant and 3.3 Sri Lankan elephants (including Anjalee). Since ZIMS is updated by the zoo itself i don't think its a mistake. However there is a possibility they switched the 2 stats.

 

[Zoofan15]

I got my information from ZIMS, and according to that Western Plains Zoo has 0.1 generic (zoomix) Asian elephant and 3.3 Sri Lankan elephants (including Anjalee). Since ZIMS is updated by the zoo itself i don't think its a mistake. However there is a possibility they switched the 2 stats.

I’m a little puzzled, as the fact they distinguish between Sri Lankan and generic implies the former are purebred.

Just to confirm, which female is listed as generic? I just realised it could be Kanlaya (2018) - given her sire is Putra Mas (who we know isn’t Sri Lankan). But that would mean Thong Dee is purebred Sri Lankan, which she clearly isn’t.

 

[Jambo]

I got my information from ZIMS, and according to that Western Plains Zoo has 0.1 generic (zoomix) Asian elephant and 3.3 Sri Lankan elephants (including Anjalee). Since ZIMS is updated by the zoo itself i don't think its a mistake. However there is a possibility they switched the 2 stats.

That generic female must be Kanlaya than if the others are all Sri Lankan. She would be half then (as her mother supposedly is too). Her father is Putra Mas, who's definitely not Sri Lankan.

Also, Thong Dee is 100% not Sri Lankan, she's an Indian elephant. This info is a little contradictory.

 

[Kestrel]

This is as confusing as the leopard holdings in Canberra. Canberra might or might not have imported a second female Sri Lankan leopard.

 

[Jambo]

This is as confusing as the leopard holdings in Canberra. Canberra might or might not have imported a second female Sri Lankan leopard.

Zims is normally rather reliable so this is puzzling to me.

Does it state which female is generic?

Also is that info about the second female leopard from Zims too? Afaik, they still only have their breeding pair and their two male cubs.

 

[Zoofan15]

This is as confusing as the leopard holdings in Canberra. Canberra might or might not have imported a second female Sri Lankan leopard.

Also is that info about the second female leopard from Zims too? Afaik, they still only have their breeding pair and their two male cubs.

Can you confirm with certainty this second female leopard is an adult (import) @Kestrel?

It’s more likely this is a cub born to the breeding pair (whose first litter are now 20 months old) - in which case I will need to make an update to my leopard population thread.

 

[Jambo]

Can you confirm with certainty this second female is an adult (import)?

It’s more likely this is a cub born to the breeding pair - in which case I will need to make an update to my leopard population thread.

It's possible; the male cubs are twenty months old now. Gestation is about three months, so it's reasonable.

 

[Kestrel]

According to ZIMS there have been only 2 births the 2 males Asanka and Chathura, so no births of any females. However it does say there is a second female. So its most definitely not their "third" cub. According to CITIES the same year Ecko, Maysha were imported another leopard was imported from Spain. This individual unlike Ecko and Maysha is listed as being imported for trade, which is quite confusing. My consensus is that when Darling Downs imported Ecko and Maysha a third leopards (which is the unknown female listed in ZIMS) was also brought down for Canberra. Additionally Darling Downs is not listed in ZIMS. I have written Canberra an email regarding this "second female", and I'm hoping to receive a response.

This opens up a wide rage of possibilities for the future of this species in Australian zoos. There are at least 11 SL leopards in Ragunan zoo and a pair in Singapore. The pair in Singapore don't seem to be having any success. If Australia does want to expand their population, they dont have to look too far. Singapore and Rangunan (sort of) are a part of the European breeding programme, so zoos dont have to look too far to find more founders.

 

[Zoofan15]

According to ZIMS there have been only 2 births the 2 males Asanka and Chathura, so no births of any females. However it does say there is a second female. So its most definitely not their "third" cub. According to CITIES the same year Ecko, Maysha were imported another leopard was imported from Spain. This individual unlike Ecko and Maysha is listed as being imported for trade, which is quite confusing. My consensus is that when Darling Downs imported Ecko and Maysha a third leopards (which is the unknown female listed in ZIMS) was also brought down for Canberra. Additionally Darling Downs is not listed in ZIMS. I have written Canberra an email regarding this "second female", and I'm hoping to receive a response.

That makes sense as they would have had the facilities to hold her ahead of her transfer to Darling Downs Zoo. Thanks for updating us and let us know what you hear.

 

[Kestrel]

That makes sense as they would have had the facilities to hold her ahead of her transfer to Darling Downs Zoo. Thanks for updating us and let us know what you hear.

This female is still at Canberra and I believe is owned my Canberra not Darling Downs. She is still there as of 2022. Ill let you guys know as soon as I find out.