LA’s Zoo Design Thread: Zoo Dunfermline

lowland anoa

Well-Known Member
10+ year member
Sigh, I’ve worked so hard on this project, in terms of innovation and animal welfare. Subjects (think taxonomy/evolution/ecoregions/bizarreness) will be explored in depth in order to fully immerse visitors into the mysterious world of wildlife and how they have become what they are today. The project will stray away from these more common species often seen in zoos/aquariums (e.g not African Lion, but Asian will be preferable for their role and backstory). You might be getting a glimpse of what I mean already, this project will be very exciting for both you and I.

The name just gives away the location, but since Dunfermline is a fast-growing town. Hang on for a moment, it’s not a town? Oh that’s right, Dunfermline has won its bid to become Scotland’s eighth city during the Queen’s Jubilee this year, so location is best on the outskirts to ensure low noise pollution preventing the animals from being stressed out, since winning city status will undoubtedly bring people from all over the country and the world. Area size preference is fluid as it depends on the extent of my designing

Before I start describing the zoo, let me tell you the ticket fees. The zoo includes a charity fee in the total fee, ensuring that EVERY visitor makes their own contribution in preserving our magnificent and fragile planet. The charity fee is actually just £2 of the total fee. Adults 18-59 cost £23.50, seniors 60+ and teenagers 13-17 cost £21.50, children 3-12 cost £19.50, and toddlers go in for £15. So a reasonable fee for a zoo.

So as visitors drive on the road leading to the zoo, they’ll see the words “Zoo Dunfermline” in Hollywood style with animal statues and water features. The car park is just what? Normal, we all know what a typical car park looks like. To be frank, that’s something I don’t need to explain. The entrance building will be bamboo-based to show environmentally friendly resources for construction, in a bid to direct visitors into being productive for the environment. Once visitors enter, they’ll pass a 3,625 litre aquarium holding the world’s most neglected pet - the goldfish! This is to show visitors the reality of goldfish keeping, and that these small fancy tanks you often see pet stores selling aren’t suitable for their entire lives, best used for when they’re of a small size, still growing. This tank will also show the natural habitat of the goldfish in the wild. Yes they’re not domesticated animals, but an actual species that has lost its identify as a wild animal to humans.

Next: The First Steps (entrance building is not yet done describing)
 
Adults 18-59 cost £23.50, seniors 60+ and teenagers 13-17 cost £21.50, children 3-12 cost £19.50, and toddlers go in for £15. So a reasonable fee for a zoo.
Is this a reasonable entry price for a zoo? Someone from the UK (someone old enough to be the one actually paying for the zoo entry) can let me know, but £15 for a baby doesn't sound even the slightest bit reasonable. That's more than an adult ticket at Auckland Zoo, for example.
 
The “Not” Lizard/Evolution of Reptiles
Continuing on from the reception building visitors will be greeted by a 225sq ft and 8ft high enclosure resembling the forests of New Zealand which are rich in moss and ferns. There are several hiding opportunities in the form of rocks, logs and barks, which comes in handy since the species held here is known to be secretive. Hang on, that’s not a lizard? You can’t lie to me and say that it’s a snake, cause it’s clearly not one. Wait you’re not lying? What is it then? It’s a Tuatara! Signs will teach visitors about what qualifies the tuatara as a separate family of reptiles from lizards, and their role in aiding the research of reptilian evolution. Several exhibitions will show early reptile replicas and visitors can interact with a screen, if they click on a time period, the screen will show them typical reptilian species of that era. Phew, education at your finest, that’s what I call the first steps ;)

This is where guests go out the doors and face the rest of the zoo!

Sans Peur (Without Fear)
This one is very close to my heart, since it’s the motto of the Clan Sutherland, where my roots lie, on Clan Sutherland’s crest is a wildcat! Yes the Scottish Wildcat! I have a tattoo combining these 2 values, which, to this date is still my favourite tattoo. This part will explore the niche of the wildcat, their conservation story and their natural behaviours (also featuring their prey species) :)

This area is in a forested section of the zoo, a perfect setting for the inhabitants since it’s basically their natural habitat. There will be a holding enclosure (800sq ft) and a smaller on-show enclosure (1,300sq ft) with the main exhibit being 3,500sq ft. The indoor quarters will be a simple 4ft x 4ft wooden shed with heating since the cats are in their natural habitat, they do not need a specialised indoor enclosure. There also will be a 450sq ft exhibit for European Rabbit, a prey species of the wildcat, but signs will educate visitors on species that have been introduced but aren’t really being eradicated. I see rabbits everyday in the field near where I live. An additional 72sq ft enclosure will showcase Long-tailed Field Mouse, another prey species of the wildcat. And that wraps it up :)

Next: Gems of Mexico
 
Is this a reasonable entry price for a zoo? Someone from the UK (someone old enough to be the one actually paying for the zoo entry) can let me know, but £15 for a baby doesn't sound even the slightest bit reasonable. That's more than an adult ticket at Auckland Zoo, for example.

Not UK but in the US babies/kids under the age of 2 or 3 are free. Varies on the age cutoff from place to place but nobody charges for the very young. I'd guess that similar actions are normal for the UK. 15 pounds equivelates to $18.20 here - enough for an adult ticket into Sac or Fresno Chaffee Zoo, so I quite agree it wouldn't be reasonable.
 
Not UK but in the US babies/kids under the age of 2 or 3 are free. Varies on the age cutoff from place to place but nobody charges for the very young. I'd guess that similar actions are normal for the UK. 15 pounds equivelates to $18.20 here - enough for an adult ticket into Sac or Fresno Chaffee Zoo, so I quite agree it wouldn't be reasonable.

I have taken Childonias’s opinion in consideration and removed the baby fee
 
I have taken Childonias’s opinion in consideration and removed the baby fee
You're focusing only on the baby when that wasn't actually the point. Your entry fees don't seem reasonable when even the price for a baby is higher than adult fees in many other zoos.
 
You're focusing only on the baby when that wasn't actually the point. Your entry fees don't seem reasonable when even the price for a baby is higher than adult fees in many other zoos.

You could have clarified so, since I only see mentions of the baby fee.
 
since winning city status will undoubtedly bring people from all over the country and the world.

While I understand your excitement at the change in status, I think you're being a bit optimistic about what this actually means. The reality is that gaining city status makes little to no difference in the vast majority of cases, and definitely doesn't 'bring people all over the country and the world'. I don't see Carlisle, St Asaph or Chelmsford receiving huge influxes of visitors from abroad thanks to their city status and don't expect anything of the sort to take place in Dunfermline either. I could be wrong, but from previous cases it is clear that gaining city status hardly has any effect on a place.

Having said this, there are certainly places in the UK with huge zoo potential - while a little seasonal perhaps for a year-round zoo, Cornwall is fairly lacking in zoos with Newquay as the only sizeable institution that corner of the country (and Paradise Park I guess).
 
Is this a reasonable entry price for a zoo? Someone from the UK (someone old enough to be the one actually paying for the zoo entry) can let me know, but £15 for a baby doesn't sound even the slightest bit reasonable. That's more than an adult ticket at Auckland Zoo, for example.

As point of reference Chester zoo admission which is arguably the biggest and (certainly among) the best the UK has to offer for zoos is a whopping £29 odd pounds for an adult, with no donation!

ZSL is a bit of an anomaly given London pricing structures but has peak tickets up to a max of £35.50! The cheapest adult ticket is £26.50 for select dates.

People are clearly prepared to pay this so perhaps the pricing structure is reasonable now the baby fee has been removed.
 
While I understand your excitement at the change in status, I think you're being a bit optimistic about what this actually means. The reality is that gaining city status makes little to no difference in the vast majority of cases, and definitely doesn't 'bring people all over the country and the world'. I don't see Carlisle, St Asaph or Chelmsford receiving huge influxes of visitors from abroad thanks to their city status and don't expect anything of the sort to take place in Dunfermline either. I could be wrong, but from previous cases it is clear that gaining city status hardly has any effect on a place.

Having said this, there are certainly places in the UK with huge zoo potential - while a little seasonal perhaps for a year-round zoo, Cornwall is fairly lacking in zoos with Newquay as the only sizeable institution that corner of the country (and Paradise Park I guess).

Yes I agree with you, but Dunfermline has changed massively in the past 15 years, modernising and enlarging. The population 15 years is a lot smaller than now. So city status might be minor regarding popularity, but Dunfermline already has asssured that.
 
As point of reference Chester zoo admission which is arguably the biggest and (certainly among) the best the UK has to offer for zoos is a whopping £29 odd pounds for an adult, with no donation!

ZSL is a bit of an anomaly given London pricing structures but has peak tickets up to a max of £35.50! The cheapest adult ticket is £26.50 for select dates.

People are clearly prepared to pay this so perhaps the pricing structure is reasonable now the baby fee has been removed.

Still higher than Edinburgh’s, as far as I know adult is £21.50
 
As point of reference Chester zoo admission which is arguably the biggest and (certainly among) the best the UK has to offer for zoos is a whopping £29 odd pounds for an adult, with no donation!

ZSL is a bit of an anomaly given London pricing structures but has peak tickets up to a max of £35.50! The cheapest adult ticket is £26.50 for select dates.

People are clearly prepared to pay this so perhaps the pricing structure is reasonable now the baby fee has been removed.

However, there are big differences between the zoos you cite above and the hypothetical one discussed in this thread.

Chester is a massive zoo in the context of the UK, widely regarded as the best the country has to offer and has a reputation up and down the nation as *the* zoo to visit (from personal experience). It therefore received upwards of 2 million visitors in the last year before Covid. Chester's fee therefore is a reflection not only of the zoo's quality and size but the cost of upkeep of the infrastructure that supports these massive visitor numbers throughout the year. To an extent, there is possibly also an element of the fact that people will still visit Chester despite the high price because they know it is worth it.

London is a slightly different situation, still receiving around 1.2 million visitors a year but I'd guess predominantly visitors from abroad or elsewhere in the country. Like Chester, it has a big reputation, particularly abroad, and it's position as the main zoological attraction in London means that it will continue to get high visitation. London has massive construction costs and this together with additional costs specific to London or ZSL mean that the entrance fee is much higher than one might expect were London to be out in the countryside (or in Dunfermline) for example. So it is clear that both collections have clear reasons for the fees to be so high.

Now I have no idea how large or speciose this zoo will be, but the fact is that Dunfermline is hardly a major touristic destination and the city status won't change that. People travelling up to Edinburgh will most likely visit Edinburgh zoo (if any zoo) rather than cross the Firth of Forth for the sole purpose of visiting the zoo. So the reality is that no zoo in Dunfermline could possibly sustain itself with entrance fees that high - already low visitor numbers would be sliced by the cost of a visit. Again, I have no clue how large the zoo will be and what costs will be entailed but the simple reality is that such a high fee is unrealistic and if reducing the fee in turn makes the size or species chosen for the zoo unreasonable, there shouldn't be an entry cost specified at the start of the thread. In my opinion a good Speculative Zoo either makes an effort to be realistic and hence thinks issues like costs and income through thoroughly, or goes for a more theoretical, design-based approach where the focus is on interesting and innovative design despite monetary or logistical factors limiting the realism. A halfway house between the two, while tempting, will always bring up these sorts of conversations questioning the realism of the project. So I'd urge you to choose one and stick with it.

Just to be clear this isn't only directed at you and applies to this forum as a whole, so I'm sorry your thread was the one to get it but I'll probably reiterate it on the forum elsewhere as a sort of guidance for new zoos :).
 
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However, there are big differences between the zoos you cite above and the hypothetical one discussed in this thread.

Chester is a massive zoo in the context of the UK, widely regarded as the best the country has to offer and has a reputation up and down the nation as *the* zoo to visit (from personal experience). It therefore received upwards of 2 million visitors in the last year before Covid. Chester's fee therefore is a reflection not only of the zoo's quality and size but the cost of upkeep of the infrastructure that supports these massive visitor numbers throughout the year. To an extent, there is possibly also an element of the fact that people will still visit Chester despite the high price because they know it is worth it.

London is a slightly different situation, still receiving around 1.2 million visitors a year but I'd guess predominantly visitors from abroad or elsewhere in the country. Like Chester, it has a big reputation, particularly abroad, and it's position as the main zoological attraction in London means that it will continue to get high visitation. London has massive construction costs and this together with additional costs specific to London or ZSL mean that the entrance fee is much higher than one might expect were London to be out in the countryside (or in Dunfermline) for example. So it is clear that both collections have clear reasons for the fees to be so high.

Now I have no idea how large or speciose this zoo will be, but the fact is that Dunfermline is hardly a major touristic destination and the city status won't change that. People travelling up to Edinburgh will most likely visit Edinburgh zoo (if any zoo) rather than cross the Firth of Forth for the sole purpose of visiting the zoo. So the reality is that no zoo in Dunfermline could possibly sustain itself with entrance fees that high - already low visitor numbers would be sliced by the cost of a visit. Again, I have no clue how large the zoo will be and what costs will be entailed but the simple reality is that such a high fee is unrealistic and if reducing the fee in turn makes the size or species chosen for the zoo unreasonable, there shouldn't be an entry cost specified at the start of the thread. In my opinion a good Speculative Zoo either makes an effort to be realistic and hence thinks issues like costs and income through thoroughly, or goes for a more theoretical, design-based approach where the focus is on interesting and innovative design despite monetary or logistical factors limiting the realism. A halfway house between the two, while tempting, will always bring up these sorts of conversations questioning the realism of the project. So I'd urge you to choose one and stick with it.

Just to be clear this isn't only directed at you and applies to this forum as a whole, so I'm sorry your thread was the one to get it but I'll probably reiterate it on the forum elsewhere as a sort of guidance for new zoos :).

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree with all your points.

It was my intention to highlight that people in the UK will pay these sorts of prices if the product is right.

As you say yourself, we don't really know what the product is yet as we have only heard tiny snippets of what I presume is a much larger plan.
 
Thanks for your thoughts, I agree with all your points.

It was my intention to highlight that people in the UK will pay these sorts of prices if the product is right.

As you say yourself, we don't really know what the product is yet as we have only heard tiny snippets of what I presume is a much larger plan.

Trust me, I have a deep passion for Mexico, having been there twice

It is the central focus of the next exhibit “Gems of Mexico” which will focus on endemic species of Meixco. Heads up, the first part will be called “Islands” hopefully releasing tomorrow, since I have just realised how truly difficult it is to design an exhibit focusing on that topic
 
Can you all please stop taking this thread out of context :)

We are not; if you want a fantasy zoo which isn't connected to reality and is therefore beyond critique, just say so :p otherwise, a serious speculative zoo project of the sort we aim for in this subforum is entirely open to such remarks.
 
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