Asian Elephants in Europe 2022

[Zoofan15]

I think we're all getting a bit carried away here. @Megan Jones merely said that a staff memeber said Karishma could be expecting.

Far from suggesting a birth is going to occur soon, this implies the pregnancy is unconfirmed or in the early stages (if she's even pregnant).

Let's not jump the gun, as fantastic as a pregnancy would be.

 

[The Hedgehog]

@Zoofan15 Out of all the Calfs born at Whipsnade I think Donna’s daughters the least likely to contract EEHV. Since Mya’s departure the heard have calmed down and integrated as one. The stress of Mya could’ve contributed to the EEHV outbreaks. Another noteworthy point another product is that the remaining Elephants are all related. You have 2 different Bloodlines. Kaylee’s consists of her “assumed” Sister Lucha,Daughter Donna and Granddaughter. Meanwhile Karishma’s Family consists of her Daughter Elizabeth. Additionally Donna and Elizabeth are Half Sisters this means that Kaylee is Elizabeth’s biological Auntie and Karishma is Donna’s.vice versaIt’s highly speculated that having unrelated Cowes within a herd raises the chances of EEHV. Ming Jung has had more Calfs than Emmett had when he had been Bull for a couple of years. It took 6 years for Emmett to sire Calfs wheres it to 2 and a half for Ming Jung.

 

[IndianRhino]

Additionally Donna and Elizabeth are Half Sisters this means that Kaylee is Elizabeth’s biological Auntie and Karishma is Donna’s.

That most certainly does not make Kaylee, Elizabeth's "biological auntie" and Karishma Donna's... not sure where you are getting that from. Kaylee is not related to Elizabeth and Karishma is not related to Donna.

highly speculated that having unrelated Cowes within a herd raises the chances of EEHV.

Don't think this is true - Emmen and African Lion Safari have both had several unrelated cows and have lost very few calves to the virus.

 

[Jambo]

I’m overjoyed that Karishma’s passed her retained fetus and can have another Calf. Elizabeth could have a Calf this year. Sithami at Chester Zoo was Elizabeth’s age when she had Sundara.

If she is pregnant right now, it seems she passed the fetus sometime during 2020; so she didn't have the fetus for long (less than a year).

Re. Sithami, that was almost two decades ago, and husbandry standards have changed. They'll probably wait another few years before allowing Elizabeth to fall pregnant, once she's older, more physically and emotionally prepared for a calf.

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15 Out of all the Calfs born at Whipsnade I think Donna’s daughters the least likely to contract EEHV. Since Mya’s departure the heard have calmed down and integrated as one. The stress of Mya could’ve contributed to the EEHV outbreaks. Another noteworthy point another product is that the remaining Elephants are all related. You have 2 different Bloodlines. Kaylee’s consists of her “assumed” Sister Lucha,Daughter Donna and Granddaughter. Meanwhile Karishma’s Family consists of her Daughter Elizabeth. Additionally Donna and Elizabeth are Half Sisters this means that Kaylee is Elizabeth’s biological Auntie and Karishma is Donna’s.vice versaIt’s highly speculated that having unrelated Cowes within a herd raises the chances of EEHV. Ming Jung has had more Calfs than Emmett had when he had been Bull for a couple of years. It took 6 years for Emmett to sire Calfs wheres it to 2 and a half for Ming Jung.

As @IndianRhino has said, Karishma is unrelated to the other adult cows and I’m led to believe that stress is more significant with regards to EEHV than relatedness. Often these go hand in hand, with unrelated cows more likely to experience conflict; but correlation does not equal causality. ZSL currently have a cohesive herd, which is the most important factor here.

Emmett took that long to sire calves because he arrived as a six year old and the cows were adults. He successfully mated the first female around April 2000, when he was eight years nine months.

 

[Jambo]

I think we're all getting a bit carried away here. @Megan Jones merely said that a staff memeber said Karishma could be expecting.

Far from suggesting a birth is going to occur soon, this implies the pregnancy is unconfirmed or in the early stages (if she's even pregnant).

Let's not jump the gun, as fantastic as a pregnancy would be.

I don't think keepers would just throw out comments like this. Especially with zoos being highly secretive regarding such pregnancies.

Whipsnade have not announced pregnancies in the past, instead waiting for the calf to be born.

'Soon' - seems to refer to the fact that it's sooner rather than later; and implies she's rather in the later stages of pregnancy. I've heard a lot of keepers use 'could' before even though the cows are confirmed pregnant, and this is just a PR move in case the calf dies during or shortly after birth.

 

[Jambo]

Kaylee is Elizabeth’s biological Auntie and Karishma is Donna’s.

Donna and Elizabeth are related through their father. That dosen't make their mothers related.

 

[ZCChip]

Re. Sithami, that was almost two decades ago, and husbandry standards have changed. They'll probably wait another few years before allowing Elizabeth to fall pregnant, once she's older, more physically and emotionally prepared for a calf.

i am not privy to the details but Sithami is inbred so it could not be intentional breeding.

 

[Jambo]

i am not privy to the details but Sithami is inbred so it could not be intentional breeding.

Yes Sithami's pregnancy was not planned. It was believed her father was Chang (meaning she breed with her father) but it turned out she had mated with Upali. This was only discovered after Sundara had been allowed to mate with Upali (her actual father) to produce Hari in 2012!

 

[ZCChip]

Yes Sithami's pregnancy was not planned. It was believed her father was Chang (meaning she breed with her father) but it turned out she had mated with Upali. This was only discovered after Sundara had been allowed to mate with Upali (her actual father) to produce Hari in 2012!

correct. I had the mother and daughter switched. It was late when I posted earlier.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

Depressing news Plai sakh as passed away due to EEHV, after a short period of illness, last Friday. It was announced today. Thoughts with the keepers and herd. Link to the Zoo’s Instagram for more information.

Zoologisk Have København on Instagram: "Ung hanelefant død af herpesvirus Vi er kede af at meddele, at vores unge hanelefant Plaisak døde fredag eftermiddag efter kort tids sygdom og intensiv behandling. Obduktionen og de indledende laboratorieprøver viser desværre, at der er tale om den frygtede elefantherpes EEHV, som er ansvarlig for rigtig mange dødsfald hos unge elefanter. Cirka halvdelen af alle elefantunger i fangenskab dør af elefantherpes inden for deres første 8-10 leveår. Også i naturen er problemet stigende - sandsynligvis, fordi der bliver færre og færre vilde elefanter, og de på den måde ikke mødes og smitter hinanden ofte nok til at udvikle antistoffer. Elefantherpes er en enormt kompleks og aggressiv sygdom. Vi stadig langt fra målet om en effektiv behandling, men den massive internationale forskning på området, som vi har deltaget i siden 2015, giver håb for udviklingen af en vaccine på sigt. Plaisak blev født her i ZOO i 2017. Han var en utrolig rar og rolig elefant, som især vil blive savnet af de dyrepassere, der gennem tiden har haft fornøjelsen af at arbejde med ham."

 

[Elephantelephant]

Depressing news Plai sakh as passed away due to EEHV, after a short period of illness, last Friday. It was announced today. Thoughts with the keepers and herd. Link to the Zoo’s Instagram for more information.

Zoologisk Have København on Instagram: "Ung hanelefant død af herpesvirus Vi er kede af at meddele, at vores unge hanelefant Plaisak døde fredag eftermiddag efter kort tids sygdom og intensiv behandling. Obduktionen og de indledende laboratorieprøver viser desværre, at der er tale om den frygtede elefantherpes EEHV, som er ansvarlig for rigtig mange dødsfald hos unge elefanter. Cirka halvdelen af alle elefantunger i fangenskab dør af elefantherpes inden for deres første 8-10 leveår. Også i naturen er problemet stigende - sandsynligvis, fordi der bliver færre og færre vilde elefanter, og de på den måde ikke mødes og smitter hinanden ofte nok til at udvikle antistoffer. Elefantherpes er en enormt kompleks og aggressiv sygdom. Vi stadig langt fra målet om en effektiv behandling, men den massive internationale forskning på området, som vi har deltaget i siden 2015, giver håb for udviklingen af en vaccine på sigt. Plaisak blev født her i ZOO i 2017. Han var en utrolig rar og rolig elefant, som især vil blive savnet af de dyrepassere, der gennem tiden har haft fornøjelsen af at arbejde med ham."

Very sad news. Another victim of this horrible virus. I pray that Jung Bul Kne and Mun stay spare and don't get infected.

 

[Jambo]

Very sad news. Another victim of this horrible virus. I pray that Jung Bul Kne and Mun stay spare and don't get infected.

Devastating news.

So far no news/updates regarding Jung and Mun, so fingers crossed they've managed to stay safe and healthy. Most cases like this, the calves will obtain the virus around the same time, but precautions still have to be taken.

 

[Mfuwe]

According to @Megan Jones in the Whipsnade news thread, Karishma is also pregnant and may be due very soon.

She could be because they had positive confirmation of mating. That’s not a definite, I am not a credible source of information just reporting what was said at the talk.

 

[Zoofan15]

She could be because they had positive confirmation of mating. That’s not a definite, I am not a credible source of information just reporting what was said at the talk.

Thank you for the confrination mating has taken place. That and other comments on here align with the comment of her possibly being pregnant from keepers as being something we can take at face value i.e. there's no reason to believe a delivery is imminent as has been previously speculated.

Given the issues with Elizabeth and the next calf, it would be ideal if Karishma's next calf came in 2024. Not only will she be able more practical support to her mother (rather than be a hindrance), she would have had two years to refine maternal skills on Donna's calf.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It would be brilliant news if the rumours are valid and Karishma’s pregnant. If Karishma has another female Calf,it’ll be instrumental to the future of Whipsnade’s herd. If Karishma’s pregnant Ming Jung is a brilliant stud. I do wonder if these pregnancy’s are the result of Ming Jung replacing Emmett,or the Herd being more settled. Prior to a couple of years ago the heard was segregated and on edge. This was caused by Mya’s aggressive and dominating behaviour to the whole herd,but primarily towards Kaylee. I know that the more settled the herd is the higher the chance of Calfs being born. Ming Jung is only 15 to have one Calf and a possible second on the way is impressive. As well as being a good breeder Ming Jung is a striking and impressive looking Bull.

 

[Zoofan15]

It would be brilliant news if the rumours are valid and Karishma’s pregnant. If Karishma has another female Calf,it’ll be instrumental to the future of Whipsnade’s herd. If Karishma’s pregnant Ming Jung is a brilliant stud. I do wonder if these pregnancy’s are the result of Ming Jung replacing Emmett,or the Herd being more settled. Prior to a couple of years ago the heard was segregated and on edge. This was caused by Mya’s aggressive and dominating behaviour to the whole herd,but primarily towards Kaylee. I know that the more settled the herd is the higher the chance of Calfs being born. Ming Jung is only 15 to have one Calf and a possible second on the way is impressive. As well as being a good breeder Ming Jung is a striking and impressive looking Bull.

I agree Ming Jung is a good quality breeder and an impressive specimen, but so was Emmett and sired several calves - including four to Karishma (including th retained fetus).

Several bulls have sired offspring to adult cows from the age of nine or ten (in some cases earlier), so at 15 years, I'd expect success from Ming Jung. Luk Chai at Melbourne was 11 years old upon arrival and had succeeded in impregnating all three viable cows in a few months.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Which captive Asian Elephant Cowe is the Youngest to have a Calf? Likewise which Elephant Bull is the youngest to Sire a Calf? I know both Sithami and Sundara at Chester,were extremely young when they had their first Calfs.

 

[Jambo]

Which captive Asian Elephant Cowe is the Youngest to have a Calf? Likewise which Elephant Bull is the youngest to Sire a Calf? I know both Sithami and Sundara at Chester,were extremely young when they had their first Calfs.

Would have to be Sithami afaik. She was only six years and seven months when she gave birth to Sundara.

Not sure about the youngest bull; although Gung in Australia fathered his first child when he was only seven (his son was then born when he was nine).

 

[The Hedgehog]

Would have to be Sithami afaik. She was only six years and seven months when she gave birth to Sundara.

Not sure about the youngest bull; although Gung in Australia fathered his first child when he was only seven (his son was then born when he was nine).

@Jambo taking this into account,Elizabeth Karishma’s Daughter at Whipsnade could already be pregnant. It would be great for Whipsnade’s herd if both Karishma and Elizabeth are pregnant. With Whipsnade already having Donna’s Calf,welcoming a further couple would be optimal. Having 3 Calfs would give them all playmates. This would help the Calf’s develop. If Elizabeth is pregnant it’s come at the best time. With Donna being pregnant and likely Karishma there would be 2 other Mums to learn from. If needed Donna or Karishma may even let Elizabeth’s Calf to suckle from them. I know sometimes this does happen.

Including Elizabeth England could have 4 extra Breeding Cowes within a couple of years. Tarli at Woburn Safari Park,Esha at Blackpool Zoo and Indali at Chester Zoo are reaching Breeding age.

I think both Woburn and Chester need new Bulls. If Tarli and Indali are cycling they’ll need to be separated from their Sires. This is far from ideal. Elephants should be kept together. Furthermore having Tarli and Indali not breeding,is a massive setback for Asian Elephants. The species is critically endangered so every birth is precious. In my opinion Chester Zoo and Woburn Safari Park should swap Bulls. This would allow Tarli and Indali to become active Breeding Cowes. Tarli having Calfs is paramount,her Bloodline is underrepresented. Tarli’s her Mum Damini’s only surviving Calf. As for her Sire Raja she is one of three surviving offspring. None of Raja’s Calfs have had Calfs.