Edinburgh Zoo Edinburgh Zoo News 2023

Seems like you can still actually view the Pandas after November 30, but just the outside area from the top viewpoint. I suspect they will depart the following week, perhaps around Dec 6/7. I'm actually in the area again a few days after that, If they are still there (unlikely that they will be though) I may try and go again.

If anyone here is planning on visiting in the next few weeks, If you can, go in the week as the weekend will be extremely busy.
 
Went today to sat goodbye to the Pandas. Relatively quiet and not a lot going on with most animals choosing to be inside. The new Drill exhibit was a good use of space.

Feels like there has been a lot of decay over the last decade with a large number of former exhibits now lying dormant and overgrown. The biggest enclosure in the zoo only appeared to be home to 3 zebras. No Tapir and no walk through monkey exhibit, some exhibits had more mice visible than animals. It was a cold day in winter which probably didn't help but I do hope the zoo can revitalise itself following the departure of the Pandas.
 
ZooNut23 said:
Went today to sat goodbye to the Pandas. Relatively quiet and not a lot going on with most animals choosing to be inside. The new Drill exhibit was a good use of space.

Feels like there has been a lot of decay over the last decade with a large number of former exhibits now lying dormant and overgrown. The biggest enclosure in the zoo only appeared to be home to 3 zebras. No Tapir and no walk through monkey exhibit, some exhibits had more mice visible than animals. It was a cold day in winter which probably didn't help but I do hope the zoo can revitalise itself following the departure of the Pandas.
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Thats a shame it used to be a good zoo
 
ZooNut23 said:
Went today to sat goodbye to the Pandas. Relatively quiet and not a lot going on with most animals choosing to be inside. The new Drill exhibit was a good use of space.

Feels like there has been a lot of decay over the last decade with a large number of former exhibits now lying dormant and overgrown. The biggest enclosure in the zoo only appeared to be home to 3 zebras. No Tapir and no walk through monkey exhibit, some exhibits had more mice visible than animals. It was a cold day in winter which probably didn't help but I do hope the zoo can revitalise itself following the departure of the Pandas.
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I wish I had gone in the week instead of the weekend it was so busy typically!

I think the winter doesn’t help, but also the fact that sadly there has been a number of deaths/ departures lately - off the top of my head the sun bear, rhino, tapir , red panda , koala & one of the penguins.

They seem to focus more on “big draws” which I guess isn’t necessary a bad thing, I don’t mean just the pandas - for instance during covid they spent nearly £3mil on the new giraffe enclosure (even more than the new panda enclosure cost in 2019).
 
Cat-Man said:
In hindsight what was the point in building the new panda enclosure?
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Well to be fair, they had the pandas for 4 years after it was built so they got a fair use from it and it was for their own welfare as potentially the noise and vibrations from the NHS site where there was construction works ongoing could injure the bears or worst.

In any case it’s a good, modern and secure enclosure and would be suitable for a lot of animals, plus it provides ample viewing so it’s a good investment in my view, while (still good) the giraffe enclosure is almost exclusively built for giraffes, the indoor area would be too dangerous and exposed to house any other large animal.
 
ZooNut23 said:
Went today to sat goodbye to the Pandas. Relatively quiet and not a lot going on with most animals choosing to be inside. The new Drill exhibit was a good use of space.

Feels like there has been a lot of decay over the last decade with a large number of former exhibits now lying dormant and overgrown. The biggest enclosure in the zoo only appeared to be home to 3 zebras. No Tapir and no walk through monkey exhibit, some exhibits had more mice visible than animals. It was a cold day in winter which probably didn't help but I do hope the zoo can revitalise itself following the departure of the Pandas.
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I’ve been critical of the current state of the zoo, especially the amount of empty spaces, but I think that assessment is a bit unfair.

Firstly there are bright engaging signs all over the zoo. Most enclosures have an extra large sign with a bright background and the name and image of the species.

These signs are great in allowing the visitor to instantly identify what is in the enclosure.

Living Links has just had a significant make over with redecoration of the visitor viewing areas, lots of new and engaging signage and new films explaining the work done there.

Previously closed off completely, the old panda enclosures are now open again with drills, as you mention, and red pandas and the indoor enclosure has been repainted as well as being outfitted for the monkeys.

Yes it’s a shame there are no longer tapirs but the enclosure is currently open and visible, nicely landscaped for Visayan warty pig overflow, so to speak.

The tiger enclosure is a relatively recent development and more significantly so is the excellent giraffe housing offering all weather close up viewing of these animals on two levels. Surely that’s the biggest enclosure in the zoo. The zebras, by the way, are due to leave the zoo and be replaced by another zebra species.

It’s far from perfect but I think this picture is unfairly bleak.
 
Cobi said:
I’ve been critical of the current state of the zoo, especially the amount of empty spaces, but I think that assessment is a bit unfair.

Firstly there are bright engaging signs all over the zoo. Most enclosures have an extra large sign with a bright background and the name and image of the species.

These signs are great in allowing the visitor to instantly identify what is in the enclosure.

Living Links has just had a significant make over with redecoration of the visitor viewing areas, lots of new and engaging signage and new films explaining the work done there.

Previously closed off completely, the old panda enclosures are now open again with drills, as you mention, and red pandas and the indoor enclosure has been repainted as well as being outfitted for the monkeys.

Yes it’s a shame there are no longer tapirs but the enclosure is currently open and visible, nicely landscaped for Visayan warty pig overflow, so to speak.

The tiger enclosure is a relatively recent development and more significantly so is the excellent giraffe housing offering all weather close up viewing of these animals on two levels. Surely that’s the biggest enclosure in the zoo. The zebras, by the way, are due to leave the zoo and be replaced by another zebra species.

It’s far from perfect but I think this picture is unfairly bleak.
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I agree, the zoo is in a good place financially and its future is bright. I feel sometimes it gets some unjust criticism when compared to other zoos, even when the comparisons aren’t reasonable to to begin with.

Agree with him or not , David Field has spoken a number a times (notably at the members meeting) of a more “natural approach” to a zoo rather than a zoo “crowded” with exhibits, read into that what you will but thinking about it, he has a point.
 
Yeah maybe I was a bit harsh. I hadn't realised so many animals had passed away recently.

The zoo does have its plus points. The giraffe enclosure and house are excellent. The tiger exhibit feels a bit like a new exhibit bolted onto an old one but it does give them far more room. Budongo and Living Links are state of the art.

Just feel like the zoo lacks cohesion and a flow with so many off show or empty displays. I look forward to seeing what happens next.
 
Dassie rat said:
David Field was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 this morning: Today - 29/11/2023 - BBC Sounds. The information about the pandas starts at about 1 hour 22 minutes
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Thanks for sharing this, It was particularly moving for me when DF said how he wished they could of stayed and that they are “Scotland’s Pandas” and he’s right. That was actually one of the few times he’s spoke passionately and openly about them too which is good to see.
 
I remember when he worked at London Zoo. He had some interesting ideas for additions to the small mammal collection
 
Dassie rat said:
I remember when he worked at London Zoo. He had some interesting ideas for additions to the small mammal collection
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At first I never knew what to make of him, I’ve seen him at the members meetings & met him briefly at the zoo. I do feel the Zoo keeps things very hushed up especially when it comes to the pandas, that is clearly deliberate of course.

I do wonder, considering the Zoo was fortunate enough to negotiate for 2 more years to host the pandas (at half the price), how much more negotiation would of been possible if they had chosen to extend the loan further or seeked a new breeding pair of pandas?

My thinking is, while they could of perhaps attempted the latter - they did not believe it would be on the cards as it is highly political (which is no secret) and the political will and cooperation with China that existed in 2011 has sadly been very much eroded by 2023.

Which is also why, and I feel the average punter may not feel this yet but - we are unlikely to see pandas again in the UK sadly in my lifetime, but because of this the demand for them will inevitably grow.
 
Cat-Man said:
A nice summary of their attempts to breed can be found here - 'Rock star' pandas - not exactly a love story - BBC News
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The fact that both had bred previously in China highlights the problems further. I wonder if Chinese breeding facilities allow for several different males to have access to an oestrus female... That is what is really needed, not these artificial pair situations that China always creates with these loans.
 
Pertinax said:
The fact that both had bred previously in China highlights the problems further. I wonder if Chinese breeding facilities allow for several different males to have access to an oestrus female... That is what is really needed, not these artificial pair situations that China always creates with these loans.
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This has been long discussed on this forum, and I believe it would help. Members of this forum had previously speculated that this might be due to several males fighting over a female, although like you have alluded to it may be a case of the female panda mating with as many males as possible. The article mentions they had issues with natural mating due to the females tail being in the way - not sure if this was a previous issue. And I'm not sure how this fits into the many unsuccessful attempts at artificial insemination! As an aside, many have speculated Mexico City's incredible breeding record is down to the altitude.

Alas, this countries dreadful record of breeding pandas is likely to continue until another zoo gets their hands on them - which might never happen!
 
Cat-Man said:
This has been long discussed on this forum, and I believe it would help. Members of this forum had previously speculated that this might be due to several males fighting over a female, although like you have alluded to it may be a case of the female panda mating with as many males as possible. The article mentions they had issues with natural mating due to the females tail being in the way - not sure if this was a previous issue. And I'm not sure how this fits into the many unsuccessful attempts at artificial insemination! As an aside, many have speculated Mexico City's incredible breeding record is down to the altitude.

Alas, this countries dreadful record of breeding pandas is likely to continue until another zoo gets their hands on them - which might never happen!
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The esteemed animal behaviourist George Schaller, who studied Pandas in the wild, including a mating situation which he describes in his book 'The Last Panda', also commented on how zoos normally can't/don't replicate the wild situation where several males gather near an oestrus female and she 'chooses which one(s) she then mates with. I'm not sure if she normally mates with several, or chooses just a preferred one. Either way, there's an element of choice which is lacking in the usual captive pairs seen outside of China. Many of China's Pandas are kept in facilities where it may be possible to recreate this choice element however.

As to the female's(TianTian) tail being in the way, it indicates she was not presenting to the male completely, the tail is usually held vertically/over the back in this situation- whether this showed a partial reluctance, or was just an individual quirk, I have no idea.
 
Pertinax said:
The animal behaviourist George Schaller who studied Pandas in the wild, including a mating situation which he describes in his boook The Last Panda, also commented on how zoos normally don't replicate the wild situation where several males gather near an oestrus female and she 'chooses which one(s) she then mates with. I'm not sure if she normally mates with several, or chooses a preferred one. Either way, there's an element of choice which is lacking in the usual captive pairs seen outside of China. Many of China's Pandas are kept in facilities where it may be possible to recreate this choice element however.

As to the female's(TianTian) tail being in the way, it indicates she was not presenting to the male completely, the tail is usually held right up/vertically over the back in this situation- whether this showed a partial reluctance, or was just an individual quirk, I have no idea.
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Thanks Pertinax, that is very interesting. It would be interesting to know if that is what is happening in China. I would suspect that yes, it is, because they seem to really have cracked the problem and are doing rather well at breeding them.
 
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