Dr. Loxodonta
Well-Known Member
So would a customs seizure be more realistic or is this equally implausible?
Spec. Zoo Design questions
- Thread starter Mr Gharial
- Start date
BenFoxster
Well-Known Member
Would neotropical otters be feasible for an American zoo?
Probably the most realistic way to aquire one, but chances are miniscule.
There are none in the US - maybe they could be imported but there's no real reason to.
Torgos
Well-Known Member
One of the biggest challenges right now is getting animals across the border AFTER all tedious paperwork has been done. Places like Toronto are driving to Buffalo to pick up animals that can't be flown into Canada. Huge headache for the Canadian zoos.I have so much pity for those zoos whose animal sources are drying up. We've quit several transactions with Canadian zoos because the issues are so forbidding. We gave up on trying to do a lizard shipment a few weeks ago after two years. But the Canadian zoos are so grateful if a US zoo will persevere. Likewise Honolulu because the regulations are so strict. A bird has to be kept for x days in a mosquito-proof space then tested for bird flu etc and then approved for flight to Honolulu within a certain date and heaven forbid anything goes wrong, a test doesn't come back or it's too hot to ship or there's snow in Los Angeles layover (?!). Start again.
The zoo world gets tougher and tougher.
Yeah, and it is honestly aggravating as heck to see a Zoochatter say "Toronto Zoo should do this" if the reality is completely beyond that zoo's control. Be kind to zoos that don't do as you want, there's almost always a reason!
Whoof, I'm feeling feisty tonight
After coming across this image by jbnbsn99 (see below); I’ve been thinking that since both elephant/giraffe and rhino/giraffe mixes have been mostly successful. How large should a single enclosure be for a herd of African Bush Elephants to feasibly coexist with Masai Giraffes and Southern White Rhinos? Or would it still be too risky for the animals involved, regardless of individuality?
Also, to put things into better perspective; all of the mentioned species would be non-breeding and/or elderly individuals; that should hopefully decrease the usual risks of breeding-related aggression.
(bonus; I am also aware that the animals in this situation are each kept separately via, hidden barriers. But in the case of my proposal, all of them would be mixed together within the same space.)
Also, to put things into better perspective; all of the mentioned species would be non-breeding and/or elderly individuals; that should hopefully decrease the usual risks of breeding-related aggression.
(bonus; I am also aware that the animals in this situation are each kept separately via, hidden barriers. But in the case of my proposal, all of them would be mixed together within the same space.)
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From what I have heard, it's not a mix that tends to work out real well because of the pushy nature of elephants. Most zoos that have the ability to allow them access with other species have them separated out more often than mixed in. I seem to recall some keepers saying on here it's a headache more than anything.
Indeed, it’s true to bring up these kinds of setbacks for an obviously hypothetical situation; but then again, it’s definitely worth noting that a mix like this is highly speculative for a reason, which is also why I brought up the topic of space in addition to the animals of question.
BenFoxster
Well-Known Member
I recommend doing some research on Dallas Zoo’s “Giants of the Savannah” and Boras Zoo’s elephant mixed species exhibit. Those would answer many of your questions if you research how they work, their success rate, etc. I don’t believe Giants of the Savannah mixes rhinos with the other species anymore, if they ever did
Can't let that statement stand without challenge. To be sure, as a tropical island covered with rainforest, yes there are often many more species in the Families that are found there.
However all mammal Families found in New Guinea are also found in Australia, while Australia has thirteen Families that are not found in New Guinea. Even within Families there is less diversity, there are no gliders, brushtails, rock wallabies or giant kangaroos in New Guinea.
When it comes to birds, as far as I can work out, New Guinea only has one Family not found in Australia, the hornbills, while Australia also has at least one not found in New Guinea. (edit: correction there are 5 endemic bird families)
At least in regards to endotherms, yes, New Guinea is species rich. Uniquely diverse, not so much.
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BenFoxster
Well-Known Member
Also keep in mind that these exhibits took years to make into a reality. Both zoos took years in the making to create. I don't remember exact details and don't have time to look it up rn, but I believe Dallas Zoo's exhibit took 20 years of planning, construction, and aquainting the animals. I believe the elephants were the first to be introduced into the savannah, then they would be rotated with the giraffes and other birds/hoofstock consecutively for a few years, then the elephants were introduced to one species, then two, etc. Even to this day they aren't always mixed together, some days one or more species are excluded and kept off show, making it still somewhat of a rotational exhibit. A similar process was done at Sweden's Boras zoo, though I believe their acquainting of the species may have taken even longer, possibly a good two decades just to aquaint them all (African elephant, giraffe, cape buffalo, eland, zebra, blesbok and birds). Surprisingly, neither exhibit has rhinos. I could have sworn rhinos were featured in both exhibits, and perhaps they were at Boras at one point in time, but I'm sure there's a reason they aren't in either enclosure.
BenFoxster
Well-Known Member
I know its not what you want, but I also recommend looking into Fresno Chaffee Zoo's "African Adventure" exhibit which even though it does not have rhinos, African Elephants, and giraffes in one exhibit, it was architecturally designed to give the appearance that all three enclosures were all entirely connected to form one massive exhibit. The White rhino and giraffe enclosures are separated by a bridge leading to a giraffe feeding station, but the hoof stock and birds also in the enclosure (wildebeest, ostriches, common eland, impala, Greater Kudu, and pink-backed pelicans) can cross under the bridge to go between the rhino and giraffe enclosures. Originally the giraffes and rhinos were meant to be in one shared enclosure, but I assume the zoo decided on keeping them separating due to the limited space available. Behind the rhino enclosure is a water moat separating them from a large elephant enclosure. An underwater barrier separates the two from getting into each other's enclosures. The elephants do have slender-horned gazelle living with them though, they're small enough for elephants not to see as a threat and quick enough to keep their distance from them. Another fun tidbit is that the rhino enclosure is overlooked by a gorgeous Kopje Lodge restaurant and a lion exhibit separated from the rhino using an empty moat, though from the glass viewing it looks as though the lion enclosure is connected as well. I have some videos of the enclosure. Its a brilliant way of creating a gorgeous exhibit that seems interconnected and gives guests the immersion of a mixed species enclosure without the trouble of having to keep the elephants from causing trouble. The rhino enclosure also used to have addax, zebra, and other species, but they proved too aggressive and were unfortunately phased out.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Szy1vq7mz1K1ZtXNA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wWtSiVMr27rxJsxD6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WiMXFVb1Ncwtcucy9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8AbGiPKaDjAyWNrx7
You could get a good idea of the zoo layout here:
https://fresnochaffeezoo.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/2023-Map_Web-English-scaled.jpg
Oh I sort of meant how unique it was in comparison to Australia with regards to Tasmania (if that makes sense?), ie. New Guinea has a few endemic bird families whilst Tasmania only has ~12 species, but I believe there's still quite a lot unique to Tasmania on other fronts eg. invertebrates.
Yes you are certainly right there!
BenFoxster
Well-Known Member
Would it be feasible for an American zoo to obtain Alpine Ibexes and Eurasian Lynx for a Eurasian zoo exhibit?
Eurasian Lynx are around in decent numbers, particularly in the non-AZA sector.
I think there may be a few ibex left but not enough to do anything much with, and importing more would be nigh impossible due to hoofstock regulations.
BenFoxster
Well-Known Member
For a spec zoo, I am looking for possible Asian ungulates for an American zoo. For context I want to create an Asian exhibit with your typical tiger, Asian elephant, Indian rhino, orangutan, snow leopard, and other common Asian species. However, I'm looking to add an unusual ungulate for its own enclosure, preferably something smaller than a banteng, but something larger than an anoa. Preferably I am looking for a species that could live on its own or in a single pair, as it would require less space and resources to maintain, being that the exhibit already has so many large and expensive species like the elephants and the rhinos. Must be feasible for an American zoo to acquire of course. Preferably no Tapir or goat/sheep species please.
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The only animal that comes to mind would be a Malayan tapir. Himalayan tahr might also fit but I don't know about their American availability
Takin is about the only thing I can think of that fits the criteria you gave.
BenFoxster
Well-Known Member
I should have mentioned that I was looking for a species besides Malayan Tapir since I was hoping for something more unique. I was also hoping for a species that was not a goat or sheep since the spec zoo already has desert bighorn and Nubian Ibex in the California and Africa zones respectively, but again I should have mentioned that in the original comment. Thanks though Mr. Gharial.