The Future of Zoos Victoria 2024 (Speculation/Fantasy)

[Zoofan15]

Taronga's troop is cohesive in the mean time but in a few years it's likely the boys will have to move off. If Taronga isn't making any effort to develop a new habitat for them. I don't see any stand out options regionally, maybe Orana. But hopefully we'll have more clarity on this whole project once the Sky Safari is completed next year.

I don't imagine they would too well - it would be highly stressful for both species so I'd rule that out as an option. There's no real other option rather than build a new enclosure in the space above first. I guess another option (yet unlikely) could be to transfer the whole troop to Orana temporarily. The males would then remain behind with the rest of the troop heading back up to Sydney after a few years.

It’s such a shame Sydney Zoo and Adelaide Zoo never built gorilla exhibits as planned. It’d be invaluable to the region here and now in providing a home for Taronga’s three adolescent males, who will need to be separated soon (it’s impressive they’ve lived so cohesively this long).

Furthermore, all three breeding troops require more females. An additional breeding facility in Adelaide would enable more breeding; and more female offspring bred as a result (which could then be exchanged).

 

[Jambo]

It’s such a shame Sydney Zoo and Adelaide Zoo never built gorilla exhibits as planned. It’d be invaluable to the region here and now in providing a home for Taronga’s three adolescent males, who will need to be separated soon (it’s impressive they’ve lived so cohesively this long).

Furthermore, all three breeding troops require more females. An additional breeding facility in Adelaide would enable more breeding; and more female offspring bred as a result (which could then be exchanged).

From what I understand it is the lack of surplus females available (unrelated to our region) that has resulted in those facilities not being able to acquire gorillas. We're struggling to acquire female gorillas as it is, so adding an additional facility (or two) to the mix would be more detrimental than beneficial for the regional program in the short term.

I don't see why we don't look towards the US who do seem to have a fair amount of young females. We do operate out of the EEP but surely we can import too!

 

[Zoofan15]

From what I understand it is the lack of surplus females available (unrelated to our region) that has resulted in those facilities not being able to acquire gorillas. We're struggling to acquire female gorillas as it is, so adding an additional facility (or two) to the mix would be more detrimental than beneficial for the regional program in the short term.

I don't see why we don't look towards the US who do seem to have a fair amount of young females. We do operate out of the EEP but surely we can import too!

Unfortunately due to the small founder size and being a polygamous species, the global captive population of gorillas suffers from a high degree of relatedness. Going back 30-40 years, those who could breed, bred; and founder males became well represented as a result.

Compare this to chimpanzees, which have had a significantly large founder base and a promiscuous mating system. At Taronga alone, at least four males have sired infants over the past 16 years (possibly more if you count deceased infants).

 

[steveroberts]

Wonder if Dubbo could accomodate the 3 teenage males for a few years until decions about their long term destination for new home are decided and plans for future females to Australia can be decided too.

 

[Jambo]

Wonder if Dubbo could accomodate the 3 teenage males for a few years until decions about their long term destination for new home are decided and plans for future females to Australia can be decided too.

Potentially although I wonder whereabouts. A whole new enclosure would need to be built, and not entirely sure whether Taronga will be willing to invest this.

They do have the smaller enclosure besides the main one which they used for Kibali when he first arrived, it's probably likely this will be used in the event the males are ousted sooner rather than later before Taronga's made a decision on what to do with them!

 

[Zoofan15]

Wonder if Dubbo could accomodate the 3 teenage males for a few years until decions about their long term destination for new home are decided and plans for future females to Australia can be decided too.

I’d love to see Dubbo build a great ape complex to house either bachelor gorillas (the three adolescents like you mention); or a bachelor troop of male chimpanzees (as was the plan in the 1990’s).

It’d be a huge asset to Taronga Zoo and it’s insane that Dubbo has been operating since 1977 and never held great apes like the other three open range zoos in the region.

 

[steveroberts]

...Maybe they complete the gorilla complex first above and then renovate the Lemur habitat too and use the current gorilla floor space for the Pygmy Hippos. Just food for thought.

Great food for thought - Really really like that idea alot, one of the several reasons really think its a great idea is because of said terrain issue (when saw the Congo precinct plans while very excited and impressed thought ''hang on, is the whole area really big enough for this (while must be from surveyencing it is very layered in different elevation, think the old stone steps that go up to the current Lemur exhibit too might be heritage protected or destined to be protected, could be wrong though, hope am wrong lol).

But the current Gorilla complex groundspace would work excellently for multiple adjoining Pygmy Hippo habitat exhibits.

 

[Jambo]

But the current Gorilla complex groundspace would work excellently for multiple adjoining Pygmy Hippo habitat exhibits.

It could easily fit two reasonably sized enclosures as it is, and they could even retain much of the initial design of the current gorilla exhibit utilising the current pool as a moat with maybe a few enhancements regarding increase of the water space available and underwater viewing windows.

Not sure about the heritage listings, the Orangutan enclosure was only built in the late 80's so I dont imagine it would be heritage listed yet. The steeps absolutely would be although I don't see why they couldn't be integrated into the Congo precinct! They would provide really cool theming imo.

 

[Zorro]

Thanks for this!

I do know one species that was scrapped by Taronga (Babirusa), Melbourne similarly planned to obtain them for their Asian trail but these plans were thrown out the window once the IRA I assume wasn't able to passed to allow them to be imported. I'm of the opinion they may have been exhibited in one half of the current Pygmy Hippo complex, which then held Malayan Tapir.

I've also thought the same re. Melbourne and their precincts. Even more recently, the whole Carnivores precinct was completed on a need to basis as the Lion habitat was nearing heritage listing and the old Big cat cages/bear habitat were in dire need of a more modern replacement. Even going back to Growing Wild, the departure of the baboons and penguins from that area left it rather bare and considering those in management at the time were very much into education, and a precinct dedicated this was always going to be built (and was something that would've gotten full government approval as such).

Despite Melbourne progressing with their precincts on a 'need' basis, they've refurbished the entire zoo rather nicely. Most of the zoo (and enclosures) are fairly new, besides the original Rainforest trail. The northern exhibits (currently housing Nyala and Peccary) could also be added into this conversation however I wouldn't consider those as a 'precinct' per se, more of a small corner at the top of the zoo! I had long assumed Australian Bush was next but thinking back on it now there isn't really much there that requires major redevelopment besides the Kangaroo exhibit which recently did get a refurbishment this year.

I would assume the current elephant complex will be next in areas for redevelopment. There isn't much need to redevelop the original Rainforest trail now, but I'd imagine there will be some consideration to this down the line.

The other species that was scrapped along with the Babirusa by Taronga at that time was the Philippine spotted deer!

 

[Zoofan15]

For further discussion of Taronga Zoo developments/speculation, please use this thread:

Future of Taronga Zoo (Speculation / Fantasy) [Taronga Zoo]

Let’s not make unnecessary work for the mods by getting off topic.

 

[Swanson02]

This might be a bit of a long shot, but have Black Rhinos ever been considered as a short-mid term replacement for elephants at Melbourne Zoo? Although they don't fit the areas South-East Asian theme, it could be a feasible option given that TWPZ currently has a surplus of young males, such as Dafari (2015) and Pampoen (2017).

The existing elephant exhibit wouldn’t need significant renovation to accommodate one or two Black Rhinos. The bull barn and two enclosures could be repurposed for rhinos, leaving the pool yard available for the proposed ropes course.

Looking more broadly, Black Rhinos could also be a great replacement for elephants at Perth Zoo. The exhibit’s proximity to the African Savannah would make them an ideal fit thematically. Perth could potentially refit the cow elephant enclosure for a single bull or even a breeding pair of Black Rhinos, while the bull elephant exhibit could be demolished to allow for an expansion of the main African Savannah.

Just a few thoughts, but it does make me wonder which institution in the region will be the next to take up Black Rhinos

 

[Zoofan15]

This might be a bit of a long shot, but have Black Rhinos ever been considered as a short-mid term replacement for elephants at Melbourne Zoo? Although they don't fit the areas South-East Asian theme, it could be a feasible option given that TWPZ currently has a surplus of young males, such as Dafari (2015) and Pampoen (2017).

The existing elephant exhibit wouldn’t need significant renovation to accommodate one or two Black Rhinos. The bull barn and two enclosures could be repurposed for rhinos, leaving the pool yard available for the proposed ropes course.

Looking more broadly, Black Rhinos could also be a great replacement for elephants at Perth Zoo. The exhibit’s proximity to the African Savannah would make them an ideal fit thematically. Perth could potentially refit the cow elephant enclosure for a single bull or even a breeding pair of Black Rhinos, while the bull elephant exhibit could be demolished to allow for an expansion of the main African Savannah.

Just a few thoughts, but it does make me wonder which institution in the region will be the next to take up Black Rhinos

Never say never, however there may be some reluctance to send black rhinoceros to a city zoo, given they’ve grown up in an open range environment; which they are naturally better predisposed to as a species, despite being held at zoos like Taronga within a historical context.

HOWEVER…it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see Melbourne Zoo accommodate Southern white rhinoceros in this exhibit - whether that be surplus from Werribee (they’re held in more than one group); or other surplus from within the region. It opens up the possibility that Lowland nyala (already on site at Melbourne) could even be held with them as a mixed species exhibit.

 

[Jambo]

This might be a bit of a long shot, but have Black Rhinos ever been considered as a short-mid term replacement for elephants at Melbourne Zoo? Although they don't fit the areas South-East Asian theme, it could be a feasible option given that TWPZ currently has a surplus of young males, such as Dafari (2015) and Pampoen (2017).

The existing elephant exhibit wouldn’t need significant renovation to accommodate one or two Black Rhinos. The bull barn and two enclosures could be repurposed for rhinos, leaving the pool yard available for the proposed ropes course.

Looking more broadly, Black Rhinos could also be a great replacement for elephants at Perth Zoo. The exhibit’s proximity to the African Savannah would make them an ideal fit thematically. Perth could potentially refit the cow elephant enclosure for a single bull or even a breeding pair of Black Rhinos, while the bull elephant exhibit could be demolished to allow for an expansion of the main African Savannah.

Just a few thoughts, but it does make me wonder which institution in the region will be the next to take up Black Rhinos

That's a great idea actually!

The only problem here is the actual terrain within the two enclosures you mention especially. There isn't a lot of 'flat land space' and I do wonder what issues this could pose with the likes of giraffes and rhinos who may not want to traverse those specific sections of those exhibits (which takes up a fair amount).

Southern White Rhinos may also be a possibility as a temporary filler species, although it doesn't seem Werribee as a surplus (at least at the moment). On them, I've always wanted to see a few in the Giraffe habitat which is actually quite big. This enclosure could do with the additions of Nyala at the very least, or rhinos.

 

[Zoofan15]

Southern White Rhinos may also be a possibility as a temporary filler species, although it doesn't seem Werribee as a surplus (at least at the moment). On them, I've always wanted to see a few in the Giraffe habitat which is actually quite big. This enclosure could do with the additions of Nyala at the very least, or rhinos.

@ZooJaya mentioned the current plan at Perth is to transfer out their younger bull, Bakari, and bring in females to join his father, Memphis; with the back up plan for Bakari to remain on site if Memphis passes before this can be enacted.

With this in mind, two possible candidates for Melbourne acquiring Southern rhinoceros could be Bakari (2005); and Nyah (2020) from Auckland Zoo. The latter is now cycling and has been separated from her father to avoid placing her on contraception. They’d be an unrelated pair, both of reasonable genetic value.

 

[dylan downward]

Rhino at Melbourne would be good but in my honest opinion the whole zoo needs an upgrade

 

[Zoofan15]

Rhino at Melbourne would be good but in my honest opinion the whole zoo needs an upgrade

Bearing in mind the budget and numerous projects scheduled for Werribee (several of which are on the back burner), I think the best we can hope for is stop-gap solutions at Melbourne for the next few years - minor improvements to remedial problems.

This is evidenced by the following examples:

Growing Wild is a lacklustre precinct in the current state, which will be greatly enhanced by the addition of a juvenile Komodo dragon.

Lion Gorge is a high quality precinct, with the coati exhibit in need of renewal due to its ageing inhabitants. This was addressed by the addition of Binturong, with only minor adaptations made to the exhibit. Similarly, the African wild dog were replaced by Dingo.

The lemur walkthrough in the Gorilla Rainforest precinct lacked impact with only a handful of bachelor male Ring-tailed lemur. The addition of more lemurs will generate more activity.

The vacant Malayan tapir exhibit has been recently filled with Lowland nyala, again requiring relatively minor modifications.

Considering the above, it’s not difficult to envisage rhinoceros inhabiting the elephant exhibit. Werribee hold the species, so it would be easy to transfer them there a decade or so from now (should Melbourne wish to undertake a large scale redevelopment); and Southern white rhinoceros are readily available in the region. Replacing elephants with rhinos has been a common trend observed around the world, with the infrastructure in place for elephants suitable for containment; and redevelopment of the exhibit proving cost efficient.

 

[dylan downward]

Main issue is there seems to be a lot of empty exhibits atm

 

[Zoofan15]

Main issue is there seems to be a lot of empty exhibits atm

Agreed. Now the Malayan tapir exhibit has been addressed, the two most pressing in my mind are:

The old Mandril exhibit:

Long term, the zoo may aspire to demolish the old Mandrill exhibit and encroach on this space to expand their Pygmy hippopotamus facilities. In the meantime, I’d suggest filling the exhibit with Black and white colobus, which would allow a redevelopment of Treetops as a South American sub-precinct. This is never more important than with the Xenarthra IRA in progress.

The old Eastern bongo exhibit:

It surprises me that Lowland nyala haven’t moved into the old bongo exhibit. Trepidation about housing Eastern bongo here again could explain it, with the nyala being closely related and potentially flighty. At a minimum, I’d look to expanding the giraffe habitat; but considering it’s a reasonable size already, I’d rather see a new species held here. If they could satisfy concerns around housing antelope, the nyala could move here; and upon the deaths of the last peccaries, that row could be redeveloped for Brazilian tapir.

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15 Really like your ideas there man

will be interesting to see what MZ has planned next for the Nyala and Peccary exhibits if say the Nyala move over to the former Bongo exhibit eventually? (the reason the adjoining area not circled as additional exhibit space is because it seems Melbourne has a native garden or perhaps plant growing garden area in the adjoining space):

(source Google Earth/Maps)

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15 Really like your ideas there man

will be interesting to see what MZ has planned next for the Nyala and Peccary exhibits if say the Nyala move over to the former Bongo exhibit eventually? (the reason the adjoining area not circled as additional exhibit space is because it seems Melbourne has a native garden or perhaps plant growing garden area in the adjoining space):

(source Google Earth/Maps)

I definitely feel like the Lowland nyala are a temporary addition as there’s no better place in the zoo for Brazilian tapir. Though the Treetops could well eventuate as a South America trail, it would remain an array of aboreal species rather than terrestrial in my opinion - with sloths being an ideal accompaniment to the array of South American monkeys.

On that note, I feel like there’s two options for their spider monkey troop - either phase the species out; or transfer the Hamadryas baboon troop to a larger exhibit at Werribee and house a spider monkey troop in their exhibit. The latter idea would pair nicely with Brazilian tapir further up the trail; and enable to the zoo to hold a larger troop of spider monkey, which has numerous benefits to their welfare - namely allowing the maintenance of a regularly breeding troop.