Howletts, Port Lympne and the RSCC

[Mike11]

Thankyou for that report Redpanda!
You are so lucky!
Its great to hear about the clouded enclosure being upgraded with more logs etc it could stop the critisisms coming from this site.
However the RSCC does seem to be a very interesting collection to visit.
Wish you the best of luck for tomorow at Howletts im visiting next may and i really cannot wait.In my eyes it has the right ideas for any zoo - The enclosures are all done out in the right way especially the tiger and other cat enclosures.
Regards

 

[foz]

"Clouded Leopard enclosure which actually only has a cloudy in at night and is now home to a pair of Puma during the day."

does this mean you cant see the clouded leopards at all?

 

[reduakari]

Sounds like it. Must be great to see the pumas in with the half-dead palm tree and token clump of bamboo

 

[Sand Cat]

Thanks for the very interesting info and pics of RSCC - I haven't been there but the place really fascinates me. The singing dogs look really lovely! Unfortunately the Clouded Leopard/Puma enclosures look pretty awful in your photos, but maybe they look better in the flesh? I'm pleased that you've defended the place and the Sun Bear enclosure in particular though, sometimes I think we get a bit too much negativity on here about certain zoos, so good on you for giving a more balanced review!

 

[easytigger]

"Clouded Leopard enclosure which actually only has a cloudy in at night and is now home to a pair of Puma during the day."

does this mean you cant see the clouded leopards at all?

so the cloudies are are shut in during the day? If so the puma's have acces to how much space for 17+ hours of the day???

 

[James27]

There's one clouded leopard, and apparently he never uses his outdoor enclosure during the day out of choice, so they only let him out at night. Makes sense and save space I guess, but Pumas don't come from Asia...
Redpanda, I agree with most of the things you say about the RSCC, except I thought the Tapir enclosure was fine, but that's a matter of opinion. I never saw the new guinea singing dogs as they where in quarantine, but their enclosure didn't look great.

 

[taun]

The moloch or silvery gibbons is a ex situ captive-breeding operation at both PL and Howletts Zoos. It has an in situ component as JAF is heavily involved with the Schmutzer Primate Center in Jakarta, Indonesia and in situ conservation activities in a rescue facility and protected areas on Java.

What I would like to know concerns the new immigrants from Jakarta Zoo that have been absorbed into the collections by JAF. I would appreciate any information on pairings and recent breedings at both facilities.

Hope that helps you out answering my queries.

K.B.

I could not tell you the sex ratio but we counted 14 moloch gibbons at Howletts yesterday. There were 3 younger gibbons (probably between 1-2 years old).

Most of them seemed to be paired up, I was quite surprised to see that many there.

 

[Bele]

Thanks for all the info. on RSCC and photos redpanda . Between the 3 collections you are visiting you will see many amazing animals . When I visited RSCC two years ago much of the outside area was still being developed .

With such an amazing collection I cannot help but wonder how good RSCC could be if they had much larger grounds to enable them to have bigger and better enclosures .

Just one question - how many pileated and white-cheeked gibbons did you see - there appear to be 3 ( 1 dark and 2 light ) in your photo .

 

[kiang]

Well done Redpanda, been fascinating reading so far, we all have our opinions on the RSCC
and i will throw my hat into the ring, the collection is incredible, risky strategy of importing less well known species to the general public, as well as the cost of these imports, the owner is to congratulated.
There are a lot of enclosures on such a small site, could the park not look at mixing species, cage over the Malayan tapir paddock and the flamingo enclosure, the flamingo pond seems to a waste of space with only the handful of flamingoes.
The cages themselves are not the biggest (everyone would admit), so long as they are well furnished, the animals are kept stimulated, things should be fine.
Is there any vacant ground bordering the zoo for potential expansion?
Redpanda did you try any of their civet poo coffee?

 

[Johnny Morris.]

Redpanda did you try any of their civet poo coffee?

 

[PAT]

Redpanda did you try any of their civet poo coffee?

I remember a few years ago on border security (a TV show about Australian customs going-ons) there were somke people trying to import some but weren't allowed to because there was still poo attached to it and they got upset because it was so expensive. Who would pay more for coffe beans that have passed through a civet. Even RSCC's wikipedia page mentions it. LOL

 

[redpanda]

Rscc

Just thought I'd answer some of your thoughts and queries regarding the RSCC. It's been interesting to hear your views on the place.

BTW, all the RSCC photos are now uploaded.

Okay, thanks for the review. I am puzzled, however, by your overall assessment (quite positive) when you point out the inadequacies of almost all the major exhibits: binturongs, singing dogs, jaguarundis, gibbons, fossa, tamarins, snow leopards, tapirs...????

Fair point, but all zoos have their bad enclosures and, of these, it was only the Binturongs, Singing Dogs, Tamarin, Tapir and possibly Snow Leopard which I said have a bad enclosure. The others it was more suggestions for improvement (neither the Jaguarundi or second Fossa enclosure were particuarly small.)

I guess I just saw the potential of the place. As Kiang has said, hats off to the owner for bringing so many rare species in and the interpretation and visitor areas are excellent. As are most of their animal enclosures.

Their main problem is lack of space, they are trying to be Chester on two acres but the animals, as I said, all seemed healthy and I didn't see any stereo-typical behaviour.

I tried to give a balanced review but overall, in my opinion, the place is good.

"Clouded Leopard enclosure which actually only has a cloudy in at night and is now home to a pair of Puma during the day."

does this mean you cant see the clouded leopards at all?

Unfortunately, no. I thought that it was a little off that they advertised having Clouded Leopards but what can you do. Thankfully, I did got to see a pair of Howletts today.

Thanks for the very interesting info and pics of RSCC - I haven't been there but the place really fascinates me. The singing dogs look really lovely! Unfortunately the Clouded Leopard/Puma enclosures look pretty awful in your photos, but maybe they look better in the flesh? I'm pleased that you've defended the place and the Sun Bear enclosure in particular though, sometimes I think we get a bit too much negativity on here about certain zoos, so good on you for giving a more balanced review!

Thankyou, I attempted to tell it as it was. Seeing at the Puma enclosure in the photos it does look pretty bad, but, when I was there, I thought it was really quite good.

so the cloudies are are shut in during the day? If so the puma's have acces to how much space for 17+ hours of the day???

It's difficult to gauge size from photos as viewing is from an elevated board-walk about fifteen feet away, as such it always appears smaller than it actually is. For the two juvenile Puma, it is a reasonable size (especially with the vertical space) although there may be problems when the Puma grow up.

Thanks for all the info. on RSCC and photos redpanda . Between the 3 collections you are visiting you will see many amazing animals . When I visited RSCC two years ago much of the outside area was still being developed .

With such an amazing collection I cannot help but wonder how good RSCC could be if they had much larger grounds to enable them to have bigger and better enclosures .

Just one question - how many pileated and white-cheeked gibbons did you see - there appear to be 3 ( 1 dark and 2 light ) in your photo .

4 gibbons.

As I say, the collection is trying to be Chester on two acres, I would love to go back and see it when they have expanded.

Well done Redpanda, been fascinating reading so far, we all have our opinions on the RSCC
and i will throw my hat into the ring, the collection is incredible, risky strategy of importing less well known species to the general public, as well as the cost of these imports, the owner is to congratulated.
There are a lot of enclosures on such a small site, could the park not look at mixing species, cage over the Malayan tapir paddock and the flamingo enclosure, the flamingo pond seems to a waste of space with only the handful of flamingoes.
The cages themselves are not the biggest (everyone would admit), so long as they are well furnished, the animals are kept stimulated, things should be fine.
Is there any vacant ground bordering the zoo for potential expansion?
Redpanda did you try any of their civet poo coffee?

Kiang, that's very much my opinion on the place. great collection but small area. Lots of enrichment but small enclosures. I think that it's a case of less is more, reduce the size of the collection and give the animals larger areas.

Yes, there seemed to be lots of vacant land surrounding the centre.

No, although if I had have known I probably would have done!

 

[redpanda]

Howletts - Replies and Review

Right, now to answer your Howletts questions.

If you could try to get some photos of the North chinese leopards at Howletts that would be great.

I'm afraid the Leopard was either gone or at the back of its enclosure. As such, the light was too poor for my rubbish camera (I did take one of the enclosure though). Maybe Taun took one yesterday.

At Howletts the first Gorilla group you will see(nearest the Entrance) was headed by 'Kijo' until he died in December. (He was the first Gorilla ever born there). I believe a replacement male isn't being considered at the moment for husbandry reasons, but could you take a note of (or photo) anything about this if there is any notice on the enclosure? Thankyou.

Pertinax, there was no notice on the enclosure.

Also, please enquire about the new moloch/silvery gibbons which have arrived ex Indonesia/Schmutzer Center last year. Any news on new breeding combinations and expected births and new blood into the European and principal silvery gibbon breeding programme?

Spoke to a primate keeper for you. Apparently, the 3 gibbons from indonesia are now out of quarantine and paired up. From what the keeper said, there won't be any births for a while as they have just been paired and it takes two years for them to produce off-spring. According to the keeper that I asked, currently Howletts has 7.7.8. Regarding new blood, apparently it will soon be made illegal to import any more so there are no plans there.

Hope that answers your question.

I would be grateful if you could find out the current status of the grizzled langur groups at Howletts.

Currently Howletts keeps 2 pairs, 1 group of 4 and 1 group of 5 (the guy didn't know a gender ratio). There was a baby born recently.

* * *​

As I've done so for PL and the RSCC and because snowleopard enjoys it, I think I shall also do a quick write-up of Howletts.

The particular highlight of today was the Gorillas, we spent an hour watching a troupe which were, in the words of Jeremy Cherfas, "enviably normal". They were a joy to watch and not a moment went by without one of them doing something entertaining. Before now, I have always believed that immersion exhibits are the way to go with gorillas however, watching the Howletts troupe, I find myself thinking that this is how Gorillas should be exhibited.

The day's notable species included Clouded Leopard, African Wildcat, North Chinese Leopard and...

DON't expect to see the Spanish Wolves- they are famously invisible...

IBERIAN WOLVES​

The pair of them were right at the back of their enclosure lying down. I spent about ten minutes watching a sleeping wolf!

I also spent some time watching the elephant herd out on one of the grassy paddocks.

The new open-topped monkey enclosures were all really good and the monkeys appeared contented with in them. Unfortunately some of the older monkey enclosures appeared a little small but hopefully new ones for them will come in time.

I really enjoyed Howletts, definitely the Aspinall feel is still there. One thing which I noticed was that, in some places, they have massive enclosures and in others they are crammed together. In my opinion, they would be better if they left the big paddocks to Port Lympne and focused on some of the smaller animals which would then not be so crammed together.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts on the place.

* * *​

Well, I guess that's the end of my 3 zoos in 3 days, I hope I've answered most of the questions you've given me (I got a rather strange look from a man in Howletts uniform when I asked him about possible breeding combinations of Moloch Gibbons, apparently he works on the hot dog stand!) and thank you for the kind words you've given along the way.

It's been great fun.

Photos of PL and Howletts (although Orycteropus appears to have beaten me to it with photos much better than mine!) to come.

 

[Pertinax]

Iberian Wolves.
The pair of them were right at the back of their enclosure lying down. I spent about ten minutes watching a sleeping wolf!

You did better than me then

I think there may be about nine in that enclosure as despite being so shy they have successfully bred, possibly twice. I was told even their press guy couldn't get any decent photos though!

I saw a brief video where a keeper enters the enclosure, there is a nervous looking pup nearby and in the background you can just see older ones racing up and down the fence- terrified by the intrusion. Maybe they have become bit less nervy by now.

 

[zooman]

Well done Red panda, have enjoyed your 3 zoo reviews.

"Quote"
The particular highlight of today was the Gorillas, we spent an hour watching a troupe which were, in the words of Jeremy Cherfas, "enviably normal". They were a joy to watch and not a moment went by without one of them doing something entertaining. Before now, I have always believed that immersion exhibits are the way to go with gorillas however, watching the Howletts troupe, I find myself thinking that this is how Gorillas should be exhibited. "Quote"

This is what everbody i have ever met says after seeing them! All thoose people who dare to critisise John Aspinalls husbandry of gorillas. Yet have never seen them are sadly missing out.

 

[redpanda]

You did better than me then

I saw a brief video where a keeper enters the enclosure, there is a nervous looking pup nearby and in the background you can just see older ones racing up and down the fence- terrified by the intrusion. Maybe they have become bit less nervy by now.

They were right at the back of the enclosure, lying against the fence. I guess I was just determined to see them as you said that I wouldn't .