Australasian Orangutan Population

[ApeLadyNZ]

It would have been interesting to have seen how the groupings had evolved had Auckland Zoo built the original two exhibits they had planned (basically a dividing wall separating Orangutan Park into two; and a second night house/day room). Though the obvious pairings would have been Horst/Indra and Charlie/Dara, the harmonious relationship between Dara and Indra presumably would have led them to manage the colony as we saw them into the 2000’s of the females and young in one group, rotating between the males. Although it meant one male had to be without females for two weeks at a time, it enabled the juveniles greater socialisation opportunities.

Once the Sydney females arrived, the second exhibit would have really come into its own; and indeed the zoo jumped at the chance to transfer Indra and Intan across to the old chimpanzee exhibit. Though no factions had evolved amongst the females at that point, Indra and Intan had the closest bond as mother and daughter and both favoured Horst over Charlie. Gangsa’s infatuation with Charlie was evident from early on, which would have been a novelty to him at that point to have such keen female interest.

It is indeed interesting to contemplate what the zoo may have looked like had they built the planned two orangutan exhibits. I've also wondered if the zoo would ever consider having such an exhibit in the future - I've seen it mentioned on here that the current siamang exhibit houses only a non-breeding pair and would be better used either for a second orangutan exhibit or for a breeding colony of gibbons (as much as I love our Intan and Kera, I'm inclined to agree that they should be transferred to another zoo and the large, expansive space they occupy put to better use).

I'll always be mystified, due to Horst's genetic value, why Busch Gardens decided not to breed again with Horst and Indra. After Luna rejected both Horst and Willie, leading to the import of Madju, Busch Gardens saw fit to retain them as ambassador animals only.

 

[Zoofan15]

It is indeed interesting to contemplate what the zoo may have looked like had they built the planned two orangutan exhibits. I've also wondered if the zoo would ever consider having such an exhibit in the future - I've seen it mentioned on here that the current siamang exhibit houses only a non-breeding pair and would be better used either for a second orangutan exhibit or for a breeding colony of gibbons (as much as I love our Intan and Kera, I'm inclined to agree that they should be transferred to another zoo and the large, expansive space they occupy put to better use).

I'll always be mystified, due to Horst's genetic value, why Busch Gardens decided not to breed again with Horst and Indra. After Luna rejected both Horst and Willie, leading to the import of Madju, Busch Gardens saw fit to retain them as ambassador animals only.

It’s unfortunate that the Siamang were unable to be integrated with the orangutans as that would have opened up the second exhibit for the use of the orangutans also and allow the zoo to expand their colony. They could potentially accomodate a larger social grouping of orangutans in the existing exhibit, but they’d be conscious not to rock the boat now they’ve established a cohesive grouping; and in any case, retaining offspring of Melur and Daya into adolescence/young adulthood will see the numbers grow.

I’ve noticed visitor engagement with Auckland Zoo’s orangutan exhibit has remained high since opening day. Although the novelty of the exhibit wore off around the time Bahmi was born, the novelty of the first infant in 17 years boosted interest; and since then, the colony has grown from 1.1 (with the female holding a newborn) to being able to see four orangutans (now Bahmi is gaining independence) moving around the exhibit. There’s a lot more to see and as I note above, the retention of offspring into adulthood will further boost numbers.

It’s a shame Horst (ranked the most genetically valuable male in North America) never bred. Indra had some health issues diagnosed at Auckland Zoo (including asthma), so I’m wondering if that contributed to a decision not to breed from her again. Her two offspring were intended to breed in North America. It’s otherwise poignant she gave birth to her second and final offspring at the age of 13 years, before most females these days (including Daya) have even had their first infant!

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

It’s unfortunate that the Siamang were unable to be integrated with the orangutans as that would have opened up the second exhibit for the use of the orangutans also and allow the zoo to expand their colony. They could potentially accomodate a larger social grouping of orangutans in the existing exhibit, but they’d be conscious not to rock the boat now they’ve established a cohesive grouping; and in any case, retaining offspring of Melur and Daya into adolescence/young adulthood will see the numbers grow.

I’ve noticed visitor engagement with Auckland Zoo’s orangutan exhibit has remained high since opening day. Although the novelty of the exhibit wore off around the time Bahmi was born, the novelty of the first infant in 17 years boosted interest; and since then, the colony has grown from 1.1 (with the female holding a newborn) to being able to see four orangutans (now Bahmi is gaining independence) moving around the exhibit. There’s a lot more to see and as I note above, the retention of offspring into adulthood will further boost numbers.

It’s a shame Horst (ranked the most genetically valuable male in North America) never bred. Indra had some health issues diagnosed at Auckland Zoo (including asthma), so I’m wondering if that contributed to a decision not to breed from her again. Her two offspring were intended to breed in North America. It’s otherwise poignant she gave birth to her second and final offspring at the age of 13 years, before most females these days (including Daya) have even had their first infant!

I too am disappointed that integrating the siamang seems to have been put on hold indefinitely - I have a feeling that a lot of that has to do with male siamang Intan's challenging behaviour. He is fond of antagonising the orangutans, and while he was able to easily elude the slower Charlie and Melur, Daya moves much faster and has the potential to catch up to him. From what I've heard from volunteers, there have been some behind-the-scenes contact with a mesh divide between the species, but Daya has taken a dislike to Intan, much like Wanita once did. Also, with Bahmi becoming bolder and more independent, the zoo would be cautious of any potential clashes there!

Perhaps Indra's health issues, plus the hope that Intan and Isim would go on to have offspring, were indeed behind the decision not to let Indra have a third infant. They could not have foreseen Intan's (orangutan, not siamang) early death or that no surviving offspring would result from the pairing of Isim and Gangsa (although there may be hope for offspring from Isim and Kalim in the future).

 

[Zoofan15]

I too am disappointed that integrating the siamang seems to have been put on hold indefinitely - I have a feeling that a lot of that has to do with male siamang Intan's challenging behaviour. He is fond of antagonising the orangutans, and while he was able to easily elude the slower Charlie and Melur, Daya moves much faster and has the potential to catch up to him. From what I've heard from volunteers, there have been some behind-the-scenes contact with a mesh divide between the species, but Daya has taken a dislike to Intan, much like Wanita once did. Also, with Bahmi becoming bolder and more independent, the zoo would be cautious of any potential clashes there!

Perhaps Indra's health issues, plus the hope that Intan and Isim would go on to have offspring, were indeed behind the decision not to let Indra have a third infant. They could not have foreseen Intan's (orangutan, not siamang) early death or that no surviving offspring would result from the pairing of Isim and Gangsa (although there may be hope for offspring from Isim and Kalim in the future).

It’s a shame that capacity that limited Auckland Zoo’s breeding in the early decades. After producing 2.1 offspring between 1989-1994, breeding was strictly regulated - with Dara’s planned birth in 2000 following a breeding recommendation between her and Charlie the first in six years. The colony had already produced two young males (one of which they were able to transfer to Sydney); but it was obvious with two adult males housed separately (and a third coming through in Isim) that housing was going to be an issue.

The import of the three females from Taronga (one non-reproductive) was as much around boosting female numbers to take the heat off Indra and Intan. I’m not sure if tho stillborn infant produced by Melur in August 2002 was intentionally bred; or an unplanned pregnancy like that of Madju, born November 2005 (around the time Auckland made the decision to switch to Sumatran’s).

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

It’s a shame that capacity that limited Auckland Zoo’s breeding in the early decades. After producing 2.1 offspring between 1989-1994, breeding was strictly regulated - with Dara’s planned birth in 2000 following a breeding recommendation between her and Charlie the first in six years. The colony had already produced two young males (one of which they were able to transfer to Sydney); but it was obvious with two adult males housed separately (and a third coming through in Isim) that housing was going to be an issue.

The import of the three females from Taronga (one non-reproductive) was as much around boosting female numbers to take the heat off Indra and Intan. I’m not sure if tho stillborn infant produced by Melur in August 2002 was intentionally bred; or an unplanned pregnancy like that of Madju, born November 2005 (around the time Auckland made the decision to switch to Sumatran’s).

The young male sent to Sydney - was that Datuk? IIRC he died tragically young.

It would be interesting to see how the colony would have developed if the decision to switch to Sumatran orangutans (later rescinded) never happened and the orangutans sent to the USA would have been allowed to remain. Or if Dara and Darli had survived.

 

[Zoofan15]

The young male sent to Sydney - was that Datuk? IIRC he died tragically young.

It would be interesting to see how the colony would have developed if the decision to switch to Sumatran orangutans (later rescinded) never happened and the orangutans sent to the USA would have been allowed to remain. Or if Dara and Darli had survived.

Yes, that was Datuk. He unfortunately died in 1998 of heart failure, which was similarly believed to have been the cause of death of Horst’s daughter Intan in 2013.

Had Dara’s daughter Darli survived, I think it’s a strong possibility they wouldn’t have imported the Taronga females and that Isim would have been sent to Taronga Zoo to replace his half-brother. Taronga effectively switched to Sumatran’s themselves with the export of the Bornean females and the brief acquisition of a Sumatran male in 2003 (Kluet).

 

[Jambo]

Yes, that was Datuk. He unfortunately died in 1998 of heart failure, which was similarly believed to have been the cause of death of Horst’s daughter Intan in 2013.

Had Dara’s daughter Darli survived, I think it’s a strong possibility they wouldn’t have imported the Taronga females and that Isim would have been sent to Taronga Zoo to replace his half-brother. Taronga effectively switched to Sumatran’s themselves with the export of the Bornean females and the brief acquisition of a Sumatran male in 2003 (Kluet).

With the dwindling numbers of Bornean's regionally, it probably did make sense to have them all in one facility to maximise breeding chances, especially following the unfortunate passings of a few individuals in the late 90's/early 00's.

I'd assume that was why Taronga elected to send their Bornean girls to Auckland - also likely due to the fact they quickly recognised their complex was unsuitable for breeding.

 

[Zoofan15]

With the dwindling numbers of Bornean's regionally, it probably did make sense to have them all in one facility to maximise breeding chances, especially following the unfortunate passings of a few individuals in the late 90's/early 00's.

I'd assume that was why Taronga elected to send their Bornean girls to Auckland - also likely due to the fact they quickly recognised their complex was unsuitable for breeding.

Interestingly the 1991/1992 Primate Conference identified the benefits of managing Bornean orangutans in New Zealand; and Sumatran orangutans in Australia. This advice appears to have been ignored as Taronga Zoo imported 1.2 Borneans in 1995-1996, but otherwise made a lot of sense.

Taronga definitely would have struggled to manage breeding with so many additional hybrids on site. Had their been the option to reduce their colony to the 1.2 Borneans, it would have been an option; but there was opposition to exporting them overseas to zoos in third world countries (which were realistically the only zoos clambering to acquire hybrids).

 

[Zorro]

Interestingly the 1991/1992 Primate Conference identified the benefits of managing Bornean orangutans in New Zealand; and Sumatran orangutans in Australia. This advice appears to have been ignored as Taronga Zoo imported 1.2 Borneans in 1995-1996, but otherwise made a lot of sense.

Taronga definitely would have struggled to manage breeding with so many additional hybrids on site. Had their been the option to reduce their colony to the 1.2 Borneans, it would have been an option; but there was opposition to exporting them overseas to zoos in third world countries (which were realistically the only zoos clambering to acquire hybrids).

What is really needed is another couple of holders within the region

 

[Jambo]

What is really needed is another couple of holders within the region

Orangutans are in a precarious position regionally with only a few holders regionally and no obvious candidates for additional holders (maybe besides Orana).

Additional holders would allow a regional breeding program to be established (rather than an extension of the European/Global program), but it seems that with both the gorillas and orangutans there's been a lot of difficulty building this up due to the lack of holders.

 

[Zoofan15]

What is really needed is another couple of holders within the region

Orangutans are in a precarious position regionally with only a few holders regionally and no obvious candidates for additional holders (maybe besides Orana).

Additional holders would allow a regional breeding program to be established (rather than an extension of the European/Global program), but it seems that with both the gorillas and orangutans there's been a lot of difficulty building this up due to the lack of holders.

The deaths of the remaining hybrids will in time free up space, though Mogo Wildlife Park’s orangutans aren’t even on display, meaning they’re unlikely to see the point in acquiring more. Their gorillas (specifically the infants) are the stars of the show.

Orana remains the best bet. Great apes are expensive, but orangutans who thrive in groups of 1-3 are a more cost efficient alternative to say a breeding troop of gorillas (as has also been proposed for Orana over the years).

 

[Zorro]

The deaths of the remaining hybrids will in time free up space, though Mogo Wildlife Park’s orangutans aren’t even on display, meaning they’re unlikely to see the point in acquiring more. Their gorillas (specifically the infants) are the stars of the show.

Orana remains the best bet. Great apes are expensive, but orangutans who thrive in groups of 1-3 are a more cost efficient alternative to say a breeding troop of gorillas (as has also been proposed for Orana over the years).

One can hope that one day Australia zoo might add more species I would be surprised if they can go on indefinitely without adding any new major exhibits?

 

[Zoofan15]

One can hope that one day Australia zoo might add more species I would be surprised if they can go on indefinitely without adding any new major exhibits?

Orangutans (in particular Sumatran orangutans) would be a nice compliment to their South East Asian precinct considering they have Sumatran tigers already. I would love to see multiple exhibits and an aerial pathway, which could enable a decent sized colony to be held.

It appears Perth are working to downsize their colony and will only be breeding from 1-2 females over the decade to come, so it’d be nice to see a large breeding colony at another facility.

 

[Zoofan15]

It could very well be that Melur is cycling again. While I've seen Bahmi still suckling from Melur, it seems to be more of an affectionate gesture when he wants a cuddle than a need for food - he is happily munching away on a wide variety of solid foods each time I visit (sometimes after poking or whacking Daya with said items! )

I wonder if we may see another breeding recommendation for Charlie and Melur around the same time one comes for Charlie and Daya?

I could definitely see breeding recommendations being issued for Charlie to breed with both Melur and Daya. Charlie is a genetically valuable male, so there should be no problem exporting surplus orangutans Auckland doesn’t want to accomodate (e.g. if Melur and Daya each produce a male infant, which would give the zoo three young males).

Bahmi gets away with a lot and it’s easy to see he would become a great hindrance to Daya if she were to produce an infant now. If Melur were to breed first, it could be a good way to teach Bahmi some manners around a newborn; with Daya then delivering her own infant around six months later. The other possibility is that Melur being preoccupied with a new infant could leave Bahmi at a loose end and nothing better to do than antagonise Daya.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I could definitely see breeding recommendations being issued for Charlie to breed with both Melur and Daya. Charlie is a genetically valuable male, so there should be no problem exporting surplus orangutans Auckland doesn’t want to accomodate (e.g. if Melur and Daya each produce a male infant, which would give the zoo three young males).

Bahmi gets away with a lot and it’s easy to see he would become a great hindrance to Daya if she were to produce an infant now. If Melur were to breed first, it could be a good way to teach Bahmi some manners around a newborn; with Daya then delivering her own infant around six months later. The other possibility is that Melur being preoccupied with a new infant could leave Bahmi at a loose end and nothing better to do than antagonise Daya.

I agree with you about the benefits of Melur having another infant. It would not only further strengthen Charlie's genetic legacy, but also give Melur's late sire Laki further representation, since Gangsa has so far failed to produce surviving offspring. And Melur is still of an age to breed - she is nowhere near the advanced age of her mother, Yasmin, who was allowed to produce one last infant.

Indeed, Bahmi's behaviour could go either of the ways you've described. Although I think he would end up coping fairly well, since he is a precocious and clever youngster who is well on his way to independence. If Auckland intends to retain Bahmi as the future breeding male, his bond with Daya might actually strengthen as he matures.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree with you about the benefits of Melur having another infant. It would not only further strengthen Charlie's genetic legacy, but also give Melur's late sire Laki further representation, since Gangsa has so far failed to produce surviving offspring. And Melur is still of an age to breed - she is nowhere near the advanced age of her mother, Yasmin, who was allowed to produce one last infant.

Indeed, Bahmi's behaviour could go either of the ways you've described. Although I think he would end up coping fairly well, since he is a precocious and clever youngster who is well on his way to independence. If Auckland intends to retain Bahmi as the future breeding male, his bond with Daya might actually strengthen as he matures.

If each of the females bred, it would greatly enhance the culture of the colony. Though they’re not necessarily a social species, we’ve both observed many positive interactions (most notably between the two adult females) and husbandry guidelines detail the benefits of young orangutans growing up with peers.

Since the arrival of Daya and progression of Bahmi from infant to (independent) juvenile, the exhibit has become a hive of activity and it’s clear with three orangutans under five years of age, that would only increase. Along with the tigers, they’re the zoo’s biggest drawcard, attracting huge crowds. In contrast to Cahya the Sumatran tiger cub (who is now almost the size of her mother), the long childhood of the orangutan makes infants the ideal long term crowd puller.

I agree it makes sense to retain Bahmi as Daya’s future breeding partner. If Daya and Melur have an infant each, it would be perfectly permissible to then take a seven or eight year gap between breeding again (this time from Bahmi and Daya). Auckland Zoo did similar historically, welcoming three infants between 1989-1994 and then taking a six year gap before Dara’s (sadly ill-fated) birth in 2000.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

If each of the females bred, it would greatly enhance the culture of the colony. Though they’re not necessarily a social species, we’ve both observed many positive interactions (most notably between the two adult females) and husbandry guidelines detail the benefits of young orangutans growing up with peers.

Since the arrival of Daya and progression of Bahmi from infant to (independent) juvenile, the exhibit has become a hive of activity and it’s clear with three orangutans under five years of age, that would only increase. Along with the tigers, they’re the zoo’s biggest drawcard, attracting huge crowds. In contrast to Cahya the Sumatran tiger cub (who is now almost the size of her mother), the long childhood of the orangutan makes infants the ideal long term crowd puller.

I agree it makes sense to retain Bahmi as Daya’s future breeding partner. If Daya and Melur have an infant each, it would be perfectly permissible to then take a seven or eight year gap between breeding again (this time from Bahmi and Daya). Auckland Zoo did similar historically, welcoming three infants between 1989-1994 and then taking a six year gap before Dara’s (sadly ill-fated) birth in 2000.

All very good points. Semi-social females, juveniles and infants in particular can form harmonious groups, although adult males, of course, are the most solitary. If Melur and Daya bred within the next year or two, Bahmi would still be of an age to form a play-based relationship with his new siblings when they are old enough, as Pairi Daiza's Berani has with his younger brother Mathai (Bahmi seems to have a very similar temperament to those two - playful, cheeky, and inquisitive!) Seeing a group of youngsters playing together would indeed be a massive crowd-puller and may even top the tiger exhibit for popularity.

The only downside I can see would be the unlikelihood of any further siamang introductions and the loss of the benefits an integrated ape exhibit would bring - but with Intan's behaviours being what they are, it would not be wise to allow him around infants. He was able to evade a protective Melur when he got too close, but Daya, as I've mentioned before, is much younger and swifter and not very tolerant of Intan.

 

[Zoofan15]

All very good points. Semi-social females, juveniles and infants in particular can form harmonious groups, although adult males, of course, are the most solitary. If Melur and Daya bred within the next year or two, Bahmi would still be of an age to form a play-based relationship with his new siblings when they are old enough, as Pairi Daiza's Berani has with his younger brother Mathai (Bahmi seems to have a very similar temperament to those two - playful, cheeky, and inquisitive!) Seeing a group of youngsters playing together would indeed be a massive crowd-puller and may even top the tiger exhibit for popularity.

The only downside I can see would be the unlikelihood of any further siamang introductions and the loss of the benefits an integrated ape exhibit would bring - but with Intan's behaviours being what they are, it would not be wise to allow him around infants. He was able to evade a protective Melur when he got too close, but Daya, as I've mentioned before, is much younger and swifter and not very tolerant of Intan.

The other benefit having two additional infants join Bahmi is that the three of them would have each other for company, which would take the pressure off the adults, who (especially Charlie) would be content to take a backseat. Bahmi would initially divide his time by interacting with Melur and his new sibling; and Daya and his new half-sibling; but when those infants reached the juvenile stage, it easy to see the three of them engaging in play independent of the adults.

I think Auckland Zoo needs to make a call about the future of Siamang based on the value they bring to the precinct. I’d argue the benefits of expanding the orangutan colony outweigh the novelty factor for visitors at seeing another species. As much as I’d hate to see the demolition of a historic exhibit, redeveloping the space occupied by the red panda/bear pit and party zone could allow the creation of a new Siamang exhibit if they were keen to retain the species. Or even adding them to the old tiger exhibit (upon the passing of the Ring-tailed lemur). It’s arguably suitable for a non-breeding pair of Siamang; and create a link to the South East Asia precinct (rather than having a species from Madagascar in there).

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

The other benefit having two additional infants join Bahmi is that the three of them would have each other for company, which would take the pressure off the adults, who (especially Charlie) would be content to take a backseat. Bahmi would initially divide his time by interacting with Melur and his new sibling; and Daya and his new half-sibling; but when those infants reached the juvenile stage, it easy to see the three of them engaging in play independent of the adults.

I think Auckland Zoo needs to make a call about the future of Siamang based on the value they bring to the precinct. I’d argue the benefits of expanding the orangutan colony outweigh the novelty factor for visitors at seeing another species. As much as I’d hate to see the demolition of a historic exhibit, redeveloping the space occupied by the red panda/bear pit and party zone could allow the creation of a new Siamang exhibit if they were keen to retain the species. Or even adding them to the old tiger exhibit (upon the passing of the Ring-tailed lemur). It’s arguably suitable for a non-breeding pair of Siamang; and create a link to the South East Asia precinct (rather than having a species from Madagascar in there).

I completely agree - new siblings would be great company for Bahmi and ease the pressure on the adults, especially Charlie. I was told by staff that Charlie used to engage in play with Madju, but he has aged considerably since then, and I don't think he would be up to similar interactions with Bahmi. Granted, he is very patient when Bahmi teases him, but it'd be better for Bahmi to have that sort of fun with orangutans nearer his own age. And imagine the visitors a trio of young orangutans would pull in - the orangutans would become the stars of the entire zoo!

And I'm also in agreement with you about the value of an expanded orangutan exhibit versus maintaining siamang. Despite the great affection I have for Intan and Kera, I've always been of the opinion that their large and spacious exhibit is wasted on a non-breeding pair. When the ape species are swapped over for enrichment purposes, I've noticed how the trees at the back of the siamang exhibit are particularly favoured by Bahmi and Days for climbing and exploring purposes, and no doubt future orangutan infants would derive similar benefits.

If Auckland Zoo don't intend to pursue a breeding programme with siamang (i.e. transferring Intan and Kera elsewhere and obtaining a breeding pair) I too would favour an expanded orangutan colony utilising both exhibits.

 

[Zoofan15]

I completely agree - new siblings would be great company for Bahmi and ease the pressure on the adults, especially Charlie. I was told by staff that Charlie used to engage in play with Madju, but he has aged considerably since then, and I don't think he would be up to similar interactions with Bahmi. Granted, he is very patient when Bahmi teases him, but it'd be better for Bahmi to have that sort of fun with orangutans nearer his own age. And imagine the visitors a trio of young orangutans would pull in - the orangutans would become the stars of the entire zoo!

And I'm also in agreement with you about the value of an expanded orangutan exhibit versus maintaining siamang. Despite the great affection I have for Intan and Kera, I've always been of the opinion that their large and spacious exhibit is wasted on a non-breeding pair. When the ape species are swapped over for enrichment purposes, I've noticed how the trees at the back of the siamang exhibit are particularly favoured by Bahmi and Days for climbing and exploring purposes, and no doubt future orangutan infants would derive similar benefits.

If Auckland Zoo don't intend to pursue a breeding programme with siamang (i.e. transferring Intan and Kera elsewhere and obtaining a breeding pair) I too would favour an expanded orangutan colony utilising both exhibits.

My only criticism of Auckland’s South East Asian ape complex is that despite the modern features, it only caters to a single grouping of orangutans (on exhibit). Had an integration with the Siamang been possible, then it would be possible to hold them across two exhibits; but it’s clear any relationship with the Siamang will be tenuous at best should an integration ever be achieved.

Having both exhibits available to orangutans would enable them to manage at least three groupings (factoring in the off display dens). This would enable them to retain Auckland bred infants into adolescence/young adulthood and hold a larger colony overall. For comparison, the previous colony (which peaked at nine orangutans between the years 2005-2009) was held in three groupings - with Horst, Charlie and Isim all kept seperate.