North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Does anyone know what the plans for Busch Gardens are for their elephants once they pass, they have three cows in their 50s and one who is about 33, so I want to know what their future is?

Last I'd heard their plans were still up in the air. Since they do have a much younger cow, they have toyed with the idea of renovating the complex and moving in new individuals once their older cows pass. Personally I feel like it's a more realistic option for them to just send her off to TES when that time comes, but it's possible that a new complex is a project they'll commit to as well.
But unless they've made a decision since, they're still waiting before solidifying anything.

 

[The Horse Boy]

Does anyone know what the plans for Busch Gardens are for their elephants once they pass, they have three cows in their 50s and one who is about 33, so I want to know what their future is?

I remember we discussed this on this very thread a bit earlier this year. A user posted that it's undecided for now until all 3 older cows pass, so it's more pertinent to their only younger cow Karaudi who's now 35. They said they might offload her to places like TES or other breeding facilities in the country, or they could bring in companions for her (I gravitate to a young bull pair or trio). They also said the barn was being renovated, but that can't always guarantee a longer term future with their elephant program. Their outdoor habitat is verging on smallish and outdated, so IG it will need a complete overhaul before they elect to house sustainable herds even if it's a small bachelor group.

 

[The Horse Boy]

Is there land around Busch gardens for a more spacious modern elephant complex? I dunno how old their currently facility is.

 

[PSO]

I would be shocked if BG kept with elephants once they get down to one or two. They notoriously do not like spending money on animal exhibits and the elephant area would need a massive overhaul.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

I would be shocked if BG kept with elephants once they get down to one or two. They notoriously do not like spending money on animal exhibits and the elephant area would need a massive overhaul.

Not to mention that they are an amusement park first and foremost, and they would almost certianly rather spend money on a new coaster than an entire new complex for elephants anyway. Disney is really the only facility of that kind that is set up to hold them long-term, but they are the exception, not the rule and leagues above BG in many aspects.
It would be nice to retain an Asian holder, but unless there is serious public interest in such a project I'm not holding my breath. Their elephants are a decent-ish draw which could be a factor in the decision, but it would be much cheaper and easier to send their remaining cow/cows off to TES since even their youngest is far past reproductive age.

 

[The Horse Boy]

Not to mention that they are an amusement park first and foremost, and they would almost certianly rather spend money on a new coaster than an entire new complex for elephants anyway. Disney is really the only facility of that kind that is set up to hold them long-term, but they are the exception, not the rule and leagues above BG in many aspects.
It would be nice to retain an Asian holder, but unless there is serious public interest in such a project I'm not holding my breath. Their elephants are a decent-ish draw which could be a factor in the decision, but it would be much cheaper and easier to send their remaining cow/cows off to TES since even their youngest is far past reproductive age.

That being said, the only definite Asian facility I can see retaining Asians long term would be White Oak. Even Miami has an uncertain future housing Asians as their habitat still looks to have a pretty undersized older habitat with 1 young bull and 1 elderly cow. But Tampa and Disney with their African breeding programs clearly have surefire commitment to them, and the phase of Jacksonville's master plan after they finish with their manatee conservation center is to redevelop their current African elephant facility and expand it into their current lion area after they move them into a brand new habitat called Lion Ridge if i'm not wrong. I hope they are still dead set on that plan.

 

[PSO]

I wouldn't hold my breath for Miami to keep elephants in general.
Jax is still planning on building a new elephant area, for now.
Only DAK and WO I can say for certain will have elephants in the next 10 years

 

[The Horse Boy]

Only DAK and WO I can say for certain will have elephants in the next 10 years

As i pointed out earlier, Tampa plans to revamp their Safari Africa area as part of their master plan, and they implied elephants will part of it with a refurbed enclosure. Plus, E Maximus pointed out they plan to transfer their current bull Sdudla out then bring in another bull in the near future, tho i'm still unsure where they got that info
Point being that i'm bemused to why you are skeptical of Lowry Park being a long term holder.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Plus, E Maximus pointed out that they plan to transfer their current bull Sdudla out then bring in another bull in the near future, tho i'm still unsure where they got that info

E Maximus is well established to have credible information that hasn't fully been publicly announced. You can choose to believe that or not, but multiple posts of theirs have ended up being true information, and they have openly stated to have worked with elephants. All of this can be seen in this thread and multiple other elephant-centric threads.

 

[The Horse Boy]

I wouldn't hold my breath for Miami to keep elephants in general.

I'm even discombobulated on why you assume Miami might phase out elephants at all. They certainly have the space and resources to continue with either both or one species if they so desired.

 

[Great Argus]

I'm even discombobulated on why you assume Miami might phase out elephants at all. They certainly have the space and resources to continue with either both or one species if they so desired.

You've now quoted the same post twice in under an hour going different directions each time, throwing out your doubts on things two reliable members have said. It is fine to have differing opinions, but openly throwing doubt about things reliable people are saying based on your own assumptions isn't a great look. Especially when your speculation and assumptions are constantly getting corrected by people who have proven reliable with their information.

 

[Nile Hippo Expert]

Plus, E Maximus pointed out they plan to transfer their current bull Sdudla out then bring in another bull in the near future, tho i'm still unsure where they got that info
Point being that i'm bemused to why you are skeptical of Lowry Park being a long term holder.

There are several members on here who do get access to those documents, but it is a very difficult process to get that access, we are lucky in the first place that we have members (I can think of at least four members off the top of my head who post on the elephant threads, all of which are extremely knowledgable contributors on ZooChat) who get access to these things since we can also get a hint of new information, but either way please don’t ask for full details on here, because while many of us also want to know, these AZA/SSP documents are INTENTIONALLY private information and those with access to it cannot share full details until an announcement is made to the public out of respect for the organization, unless they are given the green light by the manager or other person of authority of to share a portion of it on ZooChat. Like many other things, just remember this is private information and what small information has been shared is all they are authorized to share.

 

[The Horse Boy]

There are several members on here who do get access to those documents, but it is a very difficult process to get that access, we are lucky in the first place that we have members (I can think of at least four members off the top of my head who post on the elephant threads, all of which are extremely knowledgable contributors on ZooChat) who get access to these things since we can also get a hint of new information, but either way please don’t ask for full details on here, because while many of us also want to know, these AZA/SSP documents are INTENTIONALLY kept private information and those with access to it cannot share full details until it is made public out of respect for the organization, unless they are given the green light by the manager of it to share it. Like many things, just remember this is private information and what has been shared is all they are allowed to share.

I apologize if I got too personal there. I completely understand. I just got a bit too curious lol. I'm also sorry if I spat out speculations of doubt at another member with reliable information as I just didn't know, all right.

 

[The Horse Boy]

Why don't we now talk about Jacksonville if y'all wouldn't mind. When they plan on redoing the elephant habitat after manatees do y'all see it being more suitable for breeding or bachelor herds?

 

[John Marchwick]

I didn’t want to clog the North American Asian Elephant Population Thread so I’m gonna ask this question on here.

In terms of Rudy at the Columbus Zoo, is there a particular issue there why she hasn’t gotten pregnant yet or is due to a variety of issues? I ask because I know a couple years back I think Beco was his name, they tried artificially inseminating Rudy using Becos sperm. She has or will soon be around 3 different bulls breeding wise, and I saw someone had posted there was issues with Johnson and Rudy but was that the case between Sabu and Rudy?

Plus given the age, how likely is it she will have a calf now given the circumstances?

 

[Jambo]

I didn’t want to clog the North American Asian Elephant Population Thread so I’m gonna ask this question on here.

In terms of Rudy at the Columbus Zoo, is there a particular issue there why she hasn’t gotten pregnant yet or is due to a variety of issues? I ask because I know a couple years back I think Beco was his name, they tried artificially inseminating Rudy using Becos sperm. She has or will soon be around 3 different bulls breeding wise, and I saw someone had posted there was issues with Johnson and Rudy but was that the case between Sabu and Rudy?

Plus given the age, how likely is it she will have a calf now given the circumstances?

Re. the attempted AI procedures, it could've had a lot due to her age. When she arrived at Columbus, she was already 14, so would've had to have attention almost immediately breeding wise, but obviously Hank was incapable. By the time they resorted to AI with Beco, she was in her late teens so her reproductive viability window was quickly closing and I'd imagine that would have likely had a lot to do with a pregnancy never eventuating.

Obviously now, at the age of 23, the chances of her falling pregnant are incredibly slim. Especially as she apparently is quite adverse to the idea of submitting to a bull at times.

 

[ZCChip]

I didn’t want to clog the North American Asian Elephant Population Thread so I’m gonna ask this question on here.

In terms of Rudy at the Columbus Zoo, is there a particular issue there why she hasn’t gotten pregnant yet or is due to a variety of issues? I ask because I know a couple years back I think Beco was his name, they tried artificially inseminating Rudy using Becos sperm. She has or will soon be around 3 different bulls breeding wise, and I saw someone had posted there was issues with Johnson and Rudy but was that the case between Sabu and Rudy?

Plus given the age, how likely is it she will have a calf now given the circumstances?

Noone has the true answer as we all do not know or work with Rudy.

What we do know:

1) She was a circus elephant which means she has some socialization issues. Traveling with Ringling means many hours on a train on a chain; she may be next to an elephant that she does not get along with. And when not on a chain, she may be tethered when not in the pen with electric wire and performing. Meaning very limited socialization and dealing with different personalities that she may not get along with some of them. All under the control of the trainers/caretakers.

2) She may be intimidated by a bull, especially an experienced breeding bull, that can detect she is cycling and attempting to breed her.

3) I believe someone on one of those threads mentioned that she can be difficult for the caretakers as well which leads back to the life on the road.

She does have a small window of chance to get pregnant. All the zoo is keep introducing and trying. Maybe she will get comfortable with Johnson if she has Sunny or Phoebe with her but both girls will be busy with their own calves. So maybe Rudy will get some one-on-one time with Johnson (and eventually Radza).

 

[The Horse Boy]

I have a question: since this topic seems to have been discussed periodically on this site and thread, which of the elephant facilities currently housing geriatric herds are the most plausible to continue housing them longer term with either breeding or bachelor herds once they pass or move, esp. as some of them are in state of the art habitats?

 

[ZCChip]

I have a question: since this topic seems to have been discussed periodically on this site and thread, which of the elephant facilities currently housing geriatric herds are the most plausible to continue housing them longer term with either breeding or bachelor herds once they pass or move, esp. as some of them are in state of the art habitats?

Do you mean two herd concurrently? There are many zoos with one or a few geriatric cows with a breeding or bachelor herds in USA and UK.

 

[The Horse Boy]

Do you mean two herd concurrently? There are many zoos with one or a few geriatric cows with a breeding or bachelor herds in USA and UK.

I meant ones currently housing geriatric herds exclusively like Audubon Milwaukee or Cheyenne etc. My apologies if I forgot to specify