Global Captive Orca Population

aquaticpencil said:
What specifically is the issue with the tanks?
Click to expand...

Cracks in the side contaminating groundwater. Crumbling walls and weakened structure, with foreign objects accessible for the whales to digest, filters are just.. gone. The water is beyond dirty.

Workers have tried to seal it up but the parts where they've sealed have leaked and it's just making it even worse. It's already been said it's basically done for.
 
Merintia said:
I dont think refusing to send them to parks that dont have european standards is racist in any way. We can debate about Nagoya, but Suma and Kamogawa are terrible and no animal should be send there. The thing that created the mess was the park in first place, due selling the animals looking only for their profit and not for their well being. And later, the government for dont invest more on their care. They should offer a solution. Like for example, cover the expenses and take care of the animals and their enclosure there at marineland until an appropiate place is available, or until their death.
Click to expand...

That is extremely insensitive, sure their habitats may be smaller but it’s more than adequate for their animals with room for expansion. Not to mention, manageable and maintainable. Emphasis on maintainable.

And on an aside, animal caregivers from North America have apparently been hired in the eastern countries (Chimelong and SWAD for example)

A literal brand new habitat awaited Wikie, Keijo, Inouk and Moana. Imposing the « inspections » and denying the permits time after time, put the France pod at risk with every single delay. Wouldn’t France want to get them transferred out as soon as possible?To « get rid of the problem » ?
Loro Parque also isn’t even at capacity and has housed 6 adults + a calf, Ula, several years ago.

Plus, the regular visitors of the Japanese facilities are all quite close, and Kamogawa and Nagoya have had memorials for their animals, which is more than what North American facilities have done when passings occurred.
 
ZooApollo said:
I agree somewhat, but the activist group(s) that blocked the move cited the 'fact' that people in japan do not care about animals like other people do and view them as objects. Even rational anti caps agree it is excessive and untrue.

Also, the orca tanks in marineland are pretty impossible to fix, especially with live animals in them. They're in a state of disrepair, they would have to move or die.
Click to expand...

Well, is a fact that the japanese society and mentality is very different to european. And regarding to captive animals, there are things that there are seen as normal, while in europe are not aceptable. On the same way that they have other things that are better than here. I dont think is racist to point that out.

About the tanks, if is impossible to repair them, and there is no way other park with european standards accept them, then maybe the governments should build something for all those animals that are being "homeless" due new laws and anticaptivity feeling in society. And yes, I know that wont happen...
 
Aelita said:
That is extremely insensitive, sure their habitats may be smaller but it’s more than adequate for their animals with room for expansion. Not to mention, manageable and maintainable. Emphasis on maintainable.
Click to expand...

Is way smaller, specially considering Suma is brand new, so I dont think they have any intention to expand it. And I dont think is adequate for such big animals, even less for ones uses to live on a much bigger pool.


Aelita said:
And on an aside, animal caregivers from North America have apparently been hired in the eastern countries (Chimelong and SWAD for example)

A literal brand new habitat awaited Wikie, Keijo, Inouk and Moana. Imposing the « inspections » and denying the permits time after time, put the France pod at risk with every single delay. Wouldn’t France want to get them transferred out as soon as possible?To « get rid of the problem » ?
Loro Parque also isn’t even at capacity and has housed 6 adults + a calf, Ula, several years ago.

Plus, the regular visitors of the Japanese facilities are all quite close, and Kamogawa and Nagoya have had memorials for their animals, which is more than what North American facilities have done when passings occurred.
Click to expand...

I was ok with them going to Loro Parque, even when that park dont have precissely a good historial with their orcas. I dont see either what the fact that trainers from western parks are working there have nothing to see with the enclosures the whales live in.

And about your last statement. I think animals should be cared while they are alive. Memorials dont help to improve the life quality of alive animals. But there seems to be a certain "toxic fandom" among orca lovers that I find hard to understand.
 
Lynn is currently being housed with dolphins (although on video it looks as though she is actively chasing them around the tank) which is a temporary measure according to Port of Nagoya to ensure she is not left alone or without interaction following Earth's death. They are looking into another long term solution to prevent Lynn being isolated from her own species. It is not clear whether their intention is to import another orca or to transfer Lynn to another facility.

Not sure whether Granvista would 'loan' them one of the Kamogawa whales or if they would look to buy one of them, given how things ended up with Stella. They could potentially look at obtaining Naya from Moskvarium if they are willing to give her up.
 
Last edited:
Merintia said:
I dont think refusing to send them to parks that dont have european standards is racist in any way. We can debate about Nagoya, but Suma and Kamogawa are terrible and no animal should be send there. The thing that created the mess was the park in first place, due selling the animals looking only for their profit and not for their well being. And later, the government for dont invest more on their care. They should offer a solution. Like for example, cover the expenses and take care of the animals and their enclosure there at marineland until an appropiate place is available, or until their death.
Click to expand...

I have pointed that out before, but Loro Parque once lost half of its whales to a change of diet. That's a pretty terrible track record if you ask me.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
Can Naya even be exported from Russia? I've always heard that there was some kind of law against her leaving the country.
Click to expand...

Not sure, it was just a thought since she is probably an easier option.

I doubt they would want to risk accepting another loan from Granvista that they could then want back at anytime and Granvista aren't likely to sell any of their current animals unless they start having babies any time soon, which is possible given Lovey's calf from last year, and as they would have had to A.I. her they probably did the same to the others if they could train them for it, then again Lovey and Stella are their only proven breeders and whose to say if Port of Nagoya would have agreed for her (Stella) to be A.I.'d whilst in their care.

The Russian captures were sold and transported out to China (not sure how legal that was) and Naya was from one of those captures. Unless they have brought in new legislation following the release of the animals in the 'whale jail', which they might well have done its been a while since I read all of that after it happened, but I think they had agreed to put a stop to captures for a few years? Not necessarily permanently stopping captures or the selling of captured animals.
 
Wanderer said:
I have pointed that out before, but Loro Parque once lost half of its whales to a change of diet. That's a pretty terrible track record if you ask me.
Click to expand...
I know, and as I have said earlier on this post, I´m ok with them going there only because is the "less bad solution", in my opinion, among the realistic options for them.
 
ZooApollo said:
Cracks in the side contaminating groundwater. Crumbling walls and weakened structure, with foreign objects accessible for the whales to digest, filters are just.. gone. The water is beyond dirty.

Workers have tried to seal it up but the parts where they've sealed have leaked and it's just making it even worse. It's already been said it's basically done for.
Click to expand...

It's a shame it was allowed to get to this point from a maintenance perspective, though I know it's been having filtration issues as far back as 2003. Conceptually, it was definitely one of the best facilities for killer whales in the world.

I'd love to see Wiki and Keijo moved to San Diego, since Shouka is there, but I suppose that's pretty unrealistic given California's ill-informed laws on killer whales in captivity.
 
aquaticpencil said:
I'd love to see Wiki and Keijo moved to San Diego, since Shouka is there, but I suppose that's pretty unrealistic given California's ill-informed laws on killer whales in captivity.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure Wikie would even remember Shouka or vice versa considering Shouka left Marineland when Wikie was only a year old. Still, this is a highly intelligent species so there's a possibility Shouka at least might.

Despite that, I don't foresee it happening at all. Not only are the Californian laws just too strict to get past these days, but San Diego themselves also don't really have the space for two additional orcas. Orlando would be the only feasible option in the event Seaworld was to even put serious consideration towards the Marineland situation.
 
aquaticpencil said:
It's a shame it was allowed to get to this point from a maintenance perspective, though I know it's been having filtration issues as far back as 2003. Conceptually, it was definitely one of the best facilities for killer whales in the world
Click to expand...

I don't know who built the orca stadium at Marineland but it is my impression that France doesn't really have the technology available nor the expertise to properly build that kind of thing. Sure the pool complex is large but what good is it if it is just doomed to fall apart.

I don't think pool size is what matters most in the end. The orcas will just swim in circles anyways, is it really so important that they swim in circles in a larger pool than a smaller one? As long as the they can move around properly and be separated if needed it doesn't make that much of a difference. Hence why Kobe wasn't so bad.

For me the main issue with Japan was that they were likely to move the whales more often between the different parks. But they are actually one of the places in the world that are best equipped to build that kind of thing.
 
Parques Reunidos wants to move those 12 dolphins to Hainan ocean paradise (or at least this was the plan) by passing first through Spain as France was not allowing a transfer to China or Asia in general under the reason that they don't have same standards as Europe.

This is a bit nonsense if we consider the fact that Hainan ocean paradise is (correct me if im wrong) the only park in China built under the AZA standards therefore the park has an animal welfare on similar level to accredited western facilities so why would France refuse to send to that park when it's been accredited as having good standard of animal welfare?

I would not say much about Japan as their parks don't have accreditation (doesn't mean they are "bad" but France can use this to refuse a transfer). But I would understand people complaining about this case as France just being racists considering that just because it is China it means animals are gonna be in worst conditions even known the park is modern and has AZA accreditation from the beginning.
 
Maybe they are worried that, once in China, the dolphins can be moved to other parks with no European standards. Also, Hainan already have a lot of dolphins, I don´t remember how many, but they also were ready to receive some from Harderwijk, altohugh that was also cancelled I think? I have seen pictures of the pools and are big and looks nice, but I doubt that are enough for about 30 dolphins.
 
Question.

I was reading the book Zoos of Germany, by John Tuson, and it says there were two captive orca on display in Germany.

Wally at Munich Aquarium. 1970-1971. Female.
Orka at Tierpark Hagenbeck 1981-1985. Female.

Most captive orca sites, however, seem to treat these whales as the same individual or only list Wally. There is a photo of Orka in the book, but there are no good photos of Wally to compare it to. The photo is credited to Hagenbeck, so I'm inclined to believe it.

Does anyone know a bit more about these whales/whale?
 
Sacchi said:
Question.

I was reading the book Zoos of Germany, by John Tuson, and it says there were two captive orca on display in Germany.

Wally at Munich Aquarium. 1970-1971. Female.
Orka at Tierpark Hagenbeck 1981-1985. Female.

Most captive orca sites, however, seem to treat these whales as the same individual or only list Wally. There is a photo of Orka in the book, but there are no good photos of Wally to compare it to. The photo is credited to Hagenbeck, so I'm inclined to believe it.

Does anyone know a bit more about these whales/whale?
Click to expand...
'Orka' is 'Ruka'. She was sent to Japan in 1985 (Nanki Shirama) where she passed away in 2000.
 
An interesting article about Marineland's tactics to prevent inbreeding between Keijo and his mother.

Marineland orcas: Male 'sexually stimulated' to avoid inbreeding

It's good to see Marineland aren't just taking the easiest initiative of separating Keijo and his mother full time.

Obviously it's incredibly important this pair leaves ASAP. If the photos of the state of the pools don't tell everyone that, I honestly don't know what will...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top