Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
Wasn't there a rumor going around on here that one of Disney's currently pregnant cows miscarried though?
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation
- Thread starter The Horse Boy
- Start date
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
That has been rehashed quite frequently throughout this thread. It was widely speculated it was luna. If that's relevant then I hope kinaga's the one bound for a healthy calf soon. Like Frankie_number_1_fan said, it's getting crucial she starts having offspring as she's now 21, and if it's successful, it could make Vasha's matriline more valuable for other holders to take.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is strongly encouraged nowadays for zoos to breed cows asap once they hit 8 years old in order to ensure their fertility. We haven't yet seen an african female being bred so young but I'm fairly confident Stella will break that streak in short order.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
It wasn't a rumor, it was confirmed by @E Maximus that one of the 7 announced pregnant cows at the time had miscarried. And of course now given that all of the Sedgwick cows gave birth/have been confirmed pregnant, we can confirm that is is indeed one of them. From what I remember another member stated that there had been an update on Kianga after said miscarriage was announced, so we can fairly reasonably guess that Luna was the one that miscarried. However with zero updates from Disney since, it's only a guessing game for now.
generally AZA seems to recommend breeding at an older age like 12-15 for the first calf. Cows in captivity mature faster due to good feeding so they are usually sexually mature at 8 years old at minimum. There are several instances of cows at that age (and rarely younger but it did happen) getting pregnant and doing well. But for some reason the studbook keeper makes recommendations at an older age.
The minimum recommended age for first conception is 8 in the AZA. All facilities are encouraged to have their first calves from females as early as is reasonably possible - the rest is up to facilities and the SSP getting themselves in order for it to happen. Of which, as we're all aware, varies in terms of success/organization/cooperation.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Belle in Fort Worth and Tupelo in Houston were both bred at the age of 8 and had their first calves between 9-10 years old. This has been the expected norm for a few years now.
Joy is also very much not being AI'd...the entire reason Chuck was brought in was to breed her and the other cows naturally.
Last edited:
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I've said a few times before that I think Chuck's recommendation with joy could be partially be tailored to the reason Shanti's matriline isn't ready to move to another asian facilities quite yet.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
Yes, facilities have found that the most fruitful first-time births come from cows around the early-mid teens age range. I conjecture that Tsavo moved to Reid Park last fall must have been to do with Nandi reaching an impeccable breeding age now that she'll turn 11 tomorrow.
On a completely different note, does anybody know if Tamani has at least bred with Christie and/or Zuri at KC yet? No need to confirm undisclosed information re. pregnancies if any exist, but I'm curious considering the amount of time that has passed if at least behaviourally things have been working out...
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Speaking of possible future pregnancies although not written in stone Mabu has been seen chasing Nolwazi, so it's quite possible that Fresno could once again welcome two calves in 2027
The Wildlife Report on Instagram: "When dad gets in the mood, everybody RUN! Mom doesn’t want to get pregnant again Unknown - DM for credit #elephantlove #elephant"
The Wildlife Report on Instagram: "When dad gets in the mood, everybody RUN! Mom doesn’t want to get pregnant again Unknown - DM for credit #elephantlove #elephant"
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
Really hopeful he’ll get both of them pregnant again because they both had boys last year and Fresno having a matrilineal herd would be great!
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Apologies for going slightly away from the discussion at hand but again, these topics have both been rehashed numerous times and there is really no reason to keep parroting them. Yes, Shanti's line isn't likely going anywhere for a while. Yes, Tsavo was moved to Reid Park to breed the younger females...
We all are passionate about these animals and these facilities but you aren't furthering any discussion by repeating the same things over and over.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be at all surprised if we saw another double birth in 2027! Mabu is a super bull after all and it would be nice to potentially see a girl or two out of him before they swap him out for a new bull.
That being said, anyone have any guesses to potentially pregnancies (of either species) floating around at the moment?
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
USA Speculative pregnancies
LA Mlilo (WILD × WILD), due sometime in 2026/2027
EM Bluebonnet (Groucho × Rasha) at Fort Worth Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Mali (Indy × Targa) at Rosemond Gifford Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Aree (Charlie × Mala) at White Oak Conservation Center due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Mable (Romeo × Shirley) at White Oak Conservation Center due sometime in 2025/2026
Other potential pregnancies are at Fort Worth (Belle), Indianapolis (Zahara, unlikely), Reid park zoo (Nandi, and maybe Litsemba), Smithsonian National Zoo (Nhi Linh), and White Oak (April and Piper).
Canada Speculative Pregnancies
EM Natasha (Tusko × Whimpy) at African Lion Safari due sometime in 2025/2026
México Speculative Pregnancies
LA Ceja (WILD × WILD) at Africam Safari, due sometime in 2026/2027
LA Lider (WILD × WILD) at Africam Safari, due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Independiente (WILD × WILD) at Africam Safari, due sometime in 2026/2027
LA Timida (WILD × WILD) at Africam Safari due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Lunar (WILD × WILD) at Africam Safari, due sometime in 2025/2026
Last edited:
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I am well aware that the shanti's matriline situation was rehashed numerous times, but just because other users have had the same conversation before multiple doesn't mean that I can't discuss anything pertaining to that subject if I myself haven't discussed them before or very frequently like with the Tucson bull move. Again i'm new to these type of stuff and i apologize if might have clogged up this thread with stupid stuff. I appreciate you trying not be too critical about it
Last edited:
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
There is a difference between bringing up old topics because they add to the conversation and just repeating information for the sake of information.
Just because YOU haven't personally participated in a conversation regarding something doesn't mean it is relevant to spam the threads with repetitive facts or things that you just found out for yourself, because a vast majority of the people active in these discussions have already repeated themselves ten times over. There is just little need to add obvious observations to the ends of discussions, especially in regards to situations such as a bull being moved to a facility with young females.
You are not really "new" to this anymore as well, you've been kindly corrected by multiple members now on this sort of thing.
I say all this without any ill intent, as I do quite enjoy discussing things with you and I share your enthusiasm with a good speculation. But you need to take the initiative when you post to do your own research through the threads so that you aren't unintentionally frustrating other users and making the threads overly lengthy.
I would add Trong Nhi to the list as well. It has been 12 years since she had Nhi Linh but she is still fairly young enough for a second calf.
But I am curious on what would happen since the National Zoo is funded by the federal government. The federal government has made several cuts, and imposing tariffs rising the costs especially feed for certain animals. The president is attempting to renovate the Smithsonian institutions (I am not sure if the zoo is included or not but going on the assumption the zoo is under scrutiny). I believe the admission to the National Zoo is free. And an elephant is expensive to feed let alone a herd with new calf/calves. It would make sense if the administration at the National Zoo put breeding plans on hold until 2026 (depending on results of midterms) or 2028. Not being political, but being aware of what may happen to the zoo as it is directly affected by the federal government.
But I am curious on what would happen since the National Zoo is funded by the federal government. The federal government has made several cuts, and imposing tariffs rising the costs especially feed for certain animals. The president is attempting to renovate the Smithsonian institutions (I am not sure if the zoo is included or not but going on the assumption the zoo is under scrutiny). I believe the admission to the National Zoo is free. And an elephant is expensive to feed let alone a herd with new calf/calves. It would make sense if the administration at the National Zoo put breeding plans on hold until 2026 (depending on results of midterms) or 2028. Not being political, but being aware of what may happen to the zoo as it is directly affected by the federal government.
Last edited:
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I really appreciate you making these two positive points about my enthusiasm and willingness to cooperate with most my content there. It helps me feel very valued. I just feel very bad and strange when people call me out over that type of stuff sometimes as it makes me feel like I don't post content like real or normal users would, and i often misinterpret these statements as wanting me to change to be liked or else bugger off. Do note I often browse stuff like Elephant Database and the population list on the news threads as my form of research putting out content on the threads if i didn't previously know the information to ensure I know what I'm talking. It also sometimes overwhelms me too much to really think about these types of rules. I am indeed an experienced user at this point as you and Nile Hippo Expert just pointed out. Everything should be all right now.
Last edited: