European (Tea)Cup - HEAD-TO-HEAD: Chester vs Prague (Birds)

[TeaLovingDave]

As the title suggests, this one will focus on the BIRDS category - as previously, the match will last for three days and although discussion of your reasoning and provision of supplementary evidence is not mandatory (except in cases of a 5:0 vote) it *is* very much encouraged.

Moreover, even if one does not feel comfortable voting, please do ask questions, post comments relating to your opinions on the evidence presented, and generally-speaking get involved in the wider discussion!

 

[Paul.Haerle]

Prague absolutely dominates in this category:
They have the parrot trail with the following species, all in charming aviaries with a nice view over Prague:
Purple-naped Lory
Orange-breasted Fig-parrot
Vernal Hanging Parrot
Brown Lory
Large Fig-parrot
Edwards’ Fig-parrot
Stella’s Lorikeet
Mitchell’s Lorikeet
Mindanao Lorikeet
At the end of the trail, there's a walkthrough with the following species:
Scaly-breasted Lorikeet
Superb Parrot
Rainbow Lorikeet
Crested Pigeon
Bush Thick-knee
Then the zoo has an Australian section with cassowaries (viewable through glass panes indoors too) and emus
They also have ostrich on the savanna.
There is also a series of owl aviaries with Oriental Bay-owl
Ural owl
Common barn owl
And a raptor aviary with European Honey-buzzard
They also have Canada goose in the bison exhibit.
Then, down the cliff they have:
A lake with Dalmatian pelican and Great White Pelican
And an amazing aviary with:
Eurasian Spoonbill
Asian Woollyneck
Black-headed Ibis
Spot-billed Pelican
Purple Heron
White-naped Crane
Red-crested Pochard
Milky Stork
Red-breasted Merganser
Smew
Magpie-goose
Baer’s Pochard
Black-crowned Night-heron
Rufous Night-heron
White-winged Wood Duck
Another aviary with:
Rock Pigeon
Vulturine Guineafowl
Lesser Kestrel
Marbled Teal
Common Teal
Yellow-billed Stork
Hadada Ibis
Abdim’s Stork
Hamerkop
African Comb Duck
White-headed Duck
Ferruginous Duck
Egyptian Vulture
Demoiselle Crane
Northern Bald Ibis
Little Owl
And then a little lake with
Bewick’s Swan
Red-breasted Goose
Cape Barren Goose
And the Great Aviary with:
Black Stork
Red Kite
Cinereous Vulture
Egyptian Vulture
Booted Eagle
There is also a Bearded Vulture aviary alongside the cliff.
Then, in the bird wetlands they have in the first aviary:
Blue Crane
White Stork
Bewick’s Swan
Secretary Bird
African Black Duck
Muscovy Duck
In the second, devoted to native species and with underwater viewing for the birds:
Eurasian Oystercatcher
Northern Shoveller
Pied Avocet
Black-winged Stilt
European Stone Curlew
Rosy Starling
Harlequin Duck
Ruff
Northern Lapwing
Glossy Ibis
Then a walkthrough aviary with African theme:
Hottentot Teal
Blacksmith Lapwing
African Spoonbill
Hadada Ibis
Garganey
Hamerkop
Purple Swamphen
African Openbill
Malagasy Sacred Ibis
Hartlaub’s Duck
Red-winged Starling
Squacco Heron
Then a Pantanal aviary, which is also walkthrough, which holds:
White-cheeked Pintail
Roseate Spoonbill
Guira Cuckoo
Boat-billed Heron
Striated Heron
Southern Lapwing
White-throated Piping-guan
Brazilian Teal
White-faced Ibis
Black-faced Ibis
White Ibis
Bufflehead
Southern Screamer
West Indian Whistling-duck
Ringed Teal
And then the second South American aviary with:
Scarlet Ibis
Crested Oropendola
Horned Screamer
Brazilian Merganser ( these birds and their breeding succes alone would give Prague a point)
Then there is the Shoebill aviary, which also has indoor viewing behind glass.
On the boardwalk to the Feline Pavilion, you can find:
Lesser White-fronted Goose
Red-breasted Goose
Magpie-goose
Emperor Goose
Eurasian Crane
Red-crowned Crane
Siberian Crane
In the Feline Pavilion, they have House Finch, Cuban Grassquit and Ruddy Ground Dove in one of the exhibits too, together with Iguanas and turtles
Then, on the way to the Rakos house, there are 2 poor aviaries for Slender-billed Parakeet and Southern Festive Amazon.
The Rakos house itself is excellent though, with a Kea aviary, a Phillipine aviary with:
Black-chinned Fruit-dove
Spotted Imperial Pigeon
Blue-naped Parrot
A highland New Guinea aviary with:
Pesquet’s Parrot
King Bird-of-Paradise
Raggiana Bird-of-Paradise
Cinnamon Ground Dove
A large walkthrough enclosure themed after lowland New Guinea with:
Palm Cockatoo
Helmeted Friarbird
Salvadori’s Fig-parrot
New Guinea Bronzewing
Green-naped Pheasant-pigeon
Pink-necked Green-pigeon
Sunda Teal
Western Crowned-pigeon
Superb Fruit-dove
A Jamaican aviary with:
Yellow-billed Amazon
Crested Quail-dove
Scaly-naped Pigeon
White-cheeked Pintail
Wattled Jacana
The Pantanal aviary with:
Hyacinth Macaw
Red-tailed Amazon
Wattled Jacana
Tataupa Tinamou
Scarlet-headed Blackbird
And then the Caatinga aviary with Lear's Macaw and Red-cowled Cardinal.
Then outdoors there is one more Peru aviary with:
Austral Parakeet
Cordilleran Parakeet
Monk Parakeet
Patagonian Conure
Then the Darwin Crater also has some nice aviaries, the first one, the Bush Bird aviary holds:
Common Bronzewing
Tawny Frogmouth
Budgerigar
Red-tailed Black Cockatoo
Wonga Pigeon
Golden-shouldered Parrot
And a Wetland Birds one with:
Australian Shelduck
Hardhead
Little Pied Cormorant
Blue-winged Kookaburra
Straw-necked Ibis
Rufous Night-heron
Then the old Birds of Southeast Asia exhibit, which has nice species but in small aviaries:
White-crested Laughingthrush
Vietnamese Pheasant
Edward’s Pheasant
Black-breasted Thrush
Sunda Laughingthrush
Northern Rufous Hornbill
Luzon Tarictic Hornbill
Palawan Peacock-pheasant
Philippine Metallic Pigeon
Philippine Scops-owl
Palawan Hornbill
Sumatran Laughingthrush
Bronze-tailed Peacock-pheasant
Coleto
Rufous-fronted Laughingthrush
Forsten’s Lorikeet
Salvadori’s Pheasant
Javan Green Magpie
Green Imperial Pigeon
Bali Starling
There is also an enclosure with Marabou Stork and Cape Barren Goose.
The Hornbill aviaries, with once again nice species and breeding succes, but less nice aviaries:
Rhinoceros Hornbill
Kagu
Hill Myna
Asian Glossy Starling
Madagascar Crested Ibis
Pink Pigeon
Great Indian Hornbill
Nicobar Pigeon
Then the first flamingo enclosure holds:
Chilean Flamingo
Caribbean Flamingo
Crested Duck
American Wood Duck
Then the second flamingo enclosure with:
Ruddy Shelduck
Red-crested Pochard
Eurasian Shoveler
Greater Flamingo
And then the biggest draw arguably, besides the bird wetlands and Rakos house maybe: the Sichuan house. A Chinese based walkthrough which holds:
Emei Shan Liocichla
Red-tailed Laughingthrush
Grey Peacock-pheasant
Common Emerald Dove
Pekin Robin
Barred Laughingthrush
Barred Cuckoo-dove
Ashy Woodpigeon
Eurasian Hoopoe
Little Bittern
Scaly Laughingthrush
White-rumped Shama
Bar-backed Partridge
Golden-crested Myna
Blue-crowned Laughingthrush
Orange-headed Thrush
Cabot’s Tragopan
White Wagtail
Blue-crowned Laughingthrush
Mandarin Duck
Great Argus
The outside aviary holds:
White-shouldered Starling
Scaly-sided Merganser
Crested Myna
Rufous-cheeked Laughingthrush
Spotted Dove
And then the Nature Around us exhibit has an Australian Magpie aviary (bit random)
And two other walkthrough aviaries, one with:
Song Thrush
Stock Pigeon
European Greenfinch
Eurasian Hoopoe
White Wagtail
Common Linnet
Common Chaffinch
European Goldfinch
One with:
Common Chaffinch
Grey Partridge
Common Starling
European Roller
European Turtle-dove
And a little owl aviary
Then the birds of prey (on the bottom right of the map):
Egyptian Vulture
King Vulture
Lesser Yellow-headed Vulture
Red-legged Seriema
Egyptian Vulture
Steller’s Sea Eagle
Spectacled Owl
Bald Eagle
Hooded Vulture
European Honey-buzzard
Pel’s Fishing-owl
Buffy Fishing-owl
And then Humboldt Penguin and Fuegian Steamer Duck
I based the species list partially of the excellent Review by @Kalaw , which I read in anticipation to my visit next month.

@EliasNys made this list, showing Prague‘s impressive and beautiful bird collection.
Thanks therefore !

 

[merlin]

@EliasNys made this list, showing Prague‘s impressive and beautiful bird collection.
Thanks therefore !

Though, this needs some updates! For example, the horned screamers were moved to a different exhibit. I will try to list more of those changes later. Some of the birds went off-show, some of them were not even mentioned.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I'll make more in-depth arguments later, but I will allow time for others to provide their own feedback, insights and arguments before I do so.

For now, the basic situation is as follows:

• Both collections have large and excellent bird collections.
• Prague contains a much wider diversity of species overall when compared to Chester - particularly where parrots and smaller birds of prey are concerned.
• Prague is less consistent where exhibit quality is concerned - although it has a large quantity of high-quality bird exhibits, it also has several poor-to-average bird exhibits. Conversely Chester is more consistent where exhibit quality is concerned, with no poor exhibits.
• Chester has the edge where large walkthrough exhibits (Tropical Realm, Tsavo Aviary, Monsoon Forest, Latin American Aviary) are concerned, and unlike Prague does not routinely pinion larger bird species. However, it should be noted that some of the walkthrough aviaries at Prague cover aspects of the category which the walkthrough aviaries at Chester do not.

As such I am currently parking my vote on 3-2 Prague, although my true feelings lie closer to something like a 53-47 split; the more consistent high quality at Chester is outweighed by the greater level of species diversity and representation at Prague.

However, much like with prior matches, I would argue that an 80-20 split in favour of Prague is entirely unwarranted given the consistent high quality at Chester and the presence of some of the very best walkthrough bird exhibits in Europe.

 

[Lafone]

I've currently gone Prague 3/2 on the basis of the excellent collection which has been highlighted in previous cup rounds. Chester also has such strength in this space however (walkthroughs in particular which are amazing) that I, for the first time, am tempted to switch to 3/2 Chester just to balance out some of the votes that suggest it is only worth a single point and give a point 'back'. Still, that's not in the spirit of the thing I guess.

 

[remar]

However, much like with prior matches, I would argue that an 80-20 split in favour of Prague is entirely unwarranted given the consistent high quality at Chester and the presence of some of the very best walkthrough bird exhibits in Europe.

But Prague is breeding Brazilian mergansers

 

[Paul.Haerle]

Chester has the edge where large walkthrough exhibits (Tropical Realm, Tsavo Aviary, Monsoon Forest, Latin American Aviary) are concerned, and unlike Prague does not routinely pinion larger bird species. However, it should be noted that some of the walkthrough aviaries at Prague cover aspects of the category which the walkthrough aviaries at Chester do not.

Prague has five big walkthrough aviaries (the large Asian aviaries with among others Milky Stor and White-naped Crane, two African aviaries (the one with a. o. Nothern Bald Ibis and Egyptian Vulture and the one with a. o. Red-winged Starling and African Openbill), the South American with a. o. White-throated Piping Guan and White-faced Ibis and the impressive Sichuan Pavillion) and many smaller walkthrough aviaries e. g. the New Guinean walkthrough in the Rakos.
And the Monsoon Forest aviary does only house Indian Peafowl and Brahminy Starlings, if I'm correct.
I would say, that's a point for Prague

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Prague has five big walkthrough aviaries (the large Asian aviaries with among others Milky Stor and White-naped Crane, two African aviaries (the one with a. o. Nothern Bald Ibis and Egyptian Vulture and the one with a. o. Red-winged Starling and African Openbill), the South American with a. o. White-throated Piping Guan and White-faced Ibis and the impressive Sichuan Pavillion) and many smaller walkthrough aviaries e. g. the New Guinean walkthrough in the Rakos.

Chester has a number of smaller walkthrough aviaries too - in any case, I did not mean Chester had the edge in *number* of walkthrough aviaries, but in the *quality* of the walkthrough aviaries.

And the Monsoon Forest aviary does only house Indian Peafowl and Brahminy Starlings, if I'm correct.

You're entirely incorrect as has been previously discussed in prior matches, it contains around 20-25 species of free-flying Asian bird species, including Asian Fairy Bluebird, Chestnut-backed Thrush, Mindanao Bleeding-heart, Luzon Bleeding-heart, Grey-capped Emerald Dove, Nicobar Pigeon, White-naped Pheasant Pigeon, Victoria Crowned Pigeon, Grosbeak Starling, Black-browed Barbet, Black-naped Oriole and Pink-necked Green Pigeon, along with aviaries for Javan Rhinoceros Hornbill.

 

[Lafone]

The Monsoon Forest free flight aviary has, among other things, Grosbeak Starlings, Black browed Barbet, Chestnut Backed Thrush, White Rumped Sharma, Cinammon Ground Dove, Roul roul partridge, Blue crowned hanging parrot, White naped pheasant pigeon, Superb fruit dove, Pink necked green pigeon, Asian fairy bluebird, Victoria crowned pigeon, Mindano bleeding heart dove, Black naped Oriole,

There are however no Brahminy Starlings or Indian Peafowl.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Still, that's not in the spirit of the thing I guess.

Basically, it's fine to switch to 3-2 Chester if you end up genuinely believing - after weighing all the evidence and discussion which has taken place - that it merits the edge, but not if you believe Prague actually merits the edge but needs to be taken down a peg

 

[Lafone]

The Tsavo aviary at Chester

credit @ZooTripper365

has the following birds (lilac breasted rollers breeding among others)

• Blacksmith lapwing
• Maccoa Duck
• Hamerkop
• Bruce's green pigeon
• Lilac breasted roller
• White crested turaco
• Purple glossy starling
• Red wing starling
• Blue billed teal
• Snowy crowned robin chat

 

[Paul.Haerle]

Chester has a number of smaller walkthrough aviaries too - in any case, I did not mean Chester had the edge in *number* of walkthrough aviaries, but in the *quality* of the walkthrough aviaries.

May I ask for a species list for the walkthrough aviaries to get an impression ?

You're entirely incorrect as has been previously discussed in prior matches, it contains around 20-25 species of free-flying Asian bird species, including Asian Fairy Bluebird, Chestnut-backed Thrush, Mindanao Bleeding-heart, Luzon Bleeding-heart, Grey-capped Emerald Dove, Nicobar Pigeon, White-naped Pheasant Pigeon, Victoria Crowned Pigeon, Grosbeak Starling, Black-browed Barbet, Black-naped Oriole and Pink-necked Green Pigeon, along with aviaries for Javan Rhinoceros Hornbill.

But I would say Prague's Sichuan Pavillon, which could be described as Prague's equivalent of Moonson Forest, has a much better collection.

 

[Lafone]

The Bali Temple and Sumatran walkthrough aviaries in Islands include

• Red Jungle fowl
• Bali Mynah
• Javan Sparrow
  
• Oriental magpie robin
• Pied imperial pigeon
• Malay crested fireback
• Chestnut backed thrush
• White rumped sharma
• Grey capped emerald dove
• Silver eared mesia
• Bronze tailed peacock pheasant
• Asian glossy starling

and the rare Mitchell's Lorikeets in an attached aviary in the Sumatran walkthrough (who have been bred successfully)

Chester Zoo celebrates hatching of two rare parrot chicks

 

[Lafone]

Some highlights of the bird collection were also linked in the Chester zoo thread recently by way of this you tube video which highlighted what was also going on behind the scenes.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

But I would say Prague's Sichuan Pavillon, which could be described as Prague's equivalent of Moonson Forest, has a much better collection.

Well, I don't think anyone has particularly disagreed (in this match or prior ones where bird exhibits have been cited) that Prague has more *oddities* where birds are concerned - and I even acknowledged that point in my initial post above - but that doesn't mean that the quality and overall standard of the exhibits is superior.

That said, I don't particularly think that Sichuan *does* have a significantly better species selection compared to Monsoon Forest or Tropical Realm!

 

[Lafone]

Tropical Realm

credit @MagpieGoose

houses a mix of free flying and enclosed birds including a variety of Hornbills (inc Visyan Tarictic Hornbills) and

• Blue-throated Piping-guan
• Orange-headed thrush
• Java Sparrow
• Madagascar Red Fody
• Mindanao Bleeding Heart Dove
• Grey-capped Emerald Dove
• Blue-crowned Laughingthrush
• Emerald Starling
• Great Argus Pheasant
• Blue-naped Mousebird

The other walkthrough is the Latin American wetland Aviary which houses breeding groups of Caribbean Flamingo, Scarlet and Glossy Ibis, Black-necked stilts and a variety of waterfowl.

credit @Maguari

 

[Kalaw]

According to ZTL, this is 265-143 on species. So roughly 64:36 which is of course closer to a 3-2 than 4-1.

But that alone doesn't quite encapsulate Prague's avian excellence. I haven't been to enough zoos to speak first-hand here, but I would say it's quite possibly the best non-specialist zoo in the world for birds.

A few points:

- Prague has far more rarities than Chester. Helmeted Friarbird, Kagu, Brazilian Merganser, Coleto, two species of bird-of-paradise, Shoebill, Pesquet's Parrot, Lear's Macaw, Lesser Pied Cormorant, Spot-billed Pelican, Pel's and Buffy Fishing Owl, Oriental Bay Owl, three species of Cissa magpies and four species of the underrepresented fig-parrots, to name just a few. Chester has its fair share of interesting birds, but the two collections aren't comparable in terms of appeal to a bird lover.

- Several of these interesting species breed regularly or have done in the past. For many of their rare laughingthrushes, Prague was the first European zoo to breed them. Just looking through their 2025 births and arrivals, some of their notable breeding highlights include Salvadori's Fig-parrot, Mindanao Lorikeets, pure wild Rock Dove, Coletos, Edward's Fig-parrot, Green-naped Pheasant-pigeon, Mitchell's Lorikeet, White Ibis, African Openbill, Wattled Jacana, Palawan Hornbill and Pel's Fishing-owl (I know @merlin told us that the young owl died earlier this year, but there were also two born last year which I believe survived?). I'm sure Chester has plenty of triumphs of its own, but the endless list of scarcely replicated breeding triumphs that come out of Prague's bird department is incredible.

- The presentation of Prague's bird department is on point. Every species has excessively detailed signage covering their origin and anatomy, and a lot of aviaries are very clean and unobtrusive using natural materials such as wood and fading into bushes or slopes. There are numerous aviaries with small underwater viewing areas for ducks. Shoebills are fed with live fish so you can watch their actual hunting behaviour. But what I love most is the way that birds are used to enhance other animals and create effective geo-zones. For instance, in 'Darwin Crater,' you can at one moment look at a wombat and at the next a huge flock of cormorants or a skulking Rufous Night-heron descending a branch. It puts the diversity of Australia into context very well. I know there are walkthrough aviaries in 'Islands' which may have the same effect, but these are often isolated and far-removed from other enclosures. At Prague, you feel surrounded.

- Several aviaries here are very possibly the best of their genre. Where else can you find a better display of temperate-climate birds than the Sichuan Pavilion? Or New Guinea birds than the pair of such themed aviaries in the Rakos' Pavilion, one lowland-themed and the other a highland-themed walkthrough. I understand that the Great Aviary is no longer an applicable example with Chester having recently opened up an even larger bird of prey aviary in HoA, though judging from photos this aviary is considerably weaker design-wise and more lacking in perching opportunities, though this could of course be subject to change with more plants growing. And does any zoo in Europe have a better lineup of wetlands aviaries? There is also a native-species area which is lacking at Chester.

I will say Chester has two big advantages here: two tropical houses with free-flying birds, whereas Prague has nothing of the sort bar a few bulbuls remaining in the Indonesian Jungle Pavilion; and the (near?) nonexistence of pinioned or wing-clipped birds, whereas there are quite a few at Prague.

There are a lot of factors at play here, and how much one deems any of them to be punishable or praiseworthy will have a big impact on their vote. I don't think it is remotely fair to say that 4-1 Prague is unacceptable, as there are a lot of arguments to be made that way. For one thing, their collection is more than 3-2 greater, but consists of far more interesting species many of which breed very regularly. The aviaries are presented in a more consistently attractive manner, and include more novel and unique concepts such as Sichuan and the New Guinea aviaries. In all honesty, I also wouldn't begrudge anyone saying Chester is superior because of the two tropical houses and the fact that their large outdoor aviaries (Latin American and Tsavo for instance) are bigger than the equivalents at Prague. But for me, Prague is the perfect zoo for birds. The way they are displayed and the excitement of the species present is just unparalleled.

I'm torn between 4-1 and 3-2, and I may go back and forth yet. For now, the more I consider how big of an advantage those two tropical houses are, the more I think 3-2. But the only thing about a 4-1 vote that's unwarranted is calling a it unwarranted.

Speaking of which, @TeaLovingDave I'd like to make the point that a 4-1 is not necessarily an '80:20 split,' as you have been calling it in recent games, the same way a 3-2 isn't a 60:40 split. It could be somewhere in between that you rounded up because you had to round it one way or another!

 

[Lafone]

very well. I know there are walkthrough aviaries in 'Islands' which may have the same effect, but these are often isolated and far-removed from other enclosures. At Prague, you feel surrounded.

I think you raise some excellent points though I would contest the isolation and far removal of any of the aviaries in Islands or elsewhere. Indeed Monsoon Forest and Tropical Realm contain a whole variety of other animals (not only in the enclosure itself but you can watch the birds while the Orangs climb around behind you in their adjacent space in the case of Monsoon Forest). Neither Islands aviary is far removed from anything else.

I appreciate you don't rate the Islands area as it's just some stuff that never takes you out of the North west of England and has some painted boats in it, but as someone with a different experience of it, I'd suggest the aviaries there sit well in context and offer excellent and well planted spaces. They are actually so close to other enclosures it's easy to miss them.

I'd argue the geo zone aim of setting birds in context (and giving people a reason to linger there which for me is a wonderful thing for a zoo to do as people rush past for the tigers) is met equally in both zoos rather than it giving Prague such a distinct advantage.

Chester also has excellent bird breeding records, with Javan Green magpies being among the endangered highlights (along with an in situ programme for their conversation) as mentioned above. You highlight Mitchell's Lorikeets but they are also bred at Chester. I can't say I found the new vulture aviary weak in design either, the birds were perching on the trees as well as the man made perches when I visited, for example. And a new space does need to establish itself.

On the 4/1 point I think that score suggests the other zoo has very little to offer in comparison and I find it odd to have one collection so far above the other in this particular category.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

but I would say it's quite possibly the best non-specialist zoo in the world for birds.

I'd say we are probably in full agreement on this point, and merely disagree about how wide the gulf is between the two collections - I'd be interested whether you would agree with me that Chester has a reasonable shout at being the second-best non-specialist zoo in the world for birds, mind you!

I know there are walkthrough aviaries in 'Islands' which may have the same effect, but these are often isolated and far-removed from other enclosures.

The Bali Temple is just down from the Javan Banteng exhibit and immediately-opposite the outdoor exhibit for the Silvery Gibbons housed within Monsoon Forest, and the Indonesian Walkthrough is immediately-adjacent to the indoor viewing for the Sun Bears - hardly "isolated and far-removed from other enclosures" I would argue!

I will say Chester has two big advantages here: two tropical houses with free-flying birds, whereas Prague has nothing of the sort bar a few bulbuls remaining in the Indonesian Jungle Pavilion; and the (near?) nonexistence of pinioned or wing-clipped birds, whereas there are quite a few at Chester.

I think you meant to write "whereas there are quite a few at Prague"

Speaking of which, @TeaLovingDave I'd like to make the point that a 4-1 is not necessarily an '80:20 split,' as you have been calling it in recent games, the same way a 3-2 isn't a 60:40 split. It could be somewhere in between that you rounded up because you had to round it one way or another!

I think my general thinking on this is that a 4-1 vote has a different "feel" to a 3-2 vote, and that therefore a collection has to *really* display little of merit in order to only earn a single point. As such I think that if I felt a match comprised a 75:25 split (for instance) I would cast a 4-1 vote, but if the split was 73:27 I would probably round down to 3-2 even though mathematically-speaking rounding to the higher vote would be closer.

Chester also has excellent bird breeding records, with Javan Green magpies being among the endangered highlights (along with an in situ programme for their conversation)

Indeed - and although some of the other European collections which have received Javan Green Magpie have had sporadic breeding success, this has been accompanied by high mortality rates. As such, Chester is not only responsible for the existence of the species in European collections, and heavily involved in the ongoing efforts to save the species from extinction in-situ, but also increasingly the only collection keeping the species going as a viable concern in European collections.

 

[Kalaw]

Something that I should clarify here: when I visited Chester, it was in the winter, and the walkthrough aviaries were closed. This probably exaggerated my frustration with the fact that many aviaries, such as the Bali one and also Tsavo (though I think the latter has been amended with HoA) can't be seen from the outside. This is what made the 'Bali Temple' feel so cut off to me. Perhaps I wouldn't feel this way if I could enter it; perhaps I wouldn't even feel this way if I visited it in the summer, and the whole island that it's located on (with the cassowaries, tree-kangaroos, etc) felt a bit more lush. Also, now I look back on it, the Indonesian aviary probably wasn't as detached as I remember it being, but then again you still can't see any of the surrounding mammals whilst within it. This is a distinctly contrasting character to Prague, where cormorants, frogmouths, wombats and tassies can all be seen from the same boardwalk.

I can't say I found the new vulture aviary weak in design either, the birds were perching on the trees as well as the man made perches when I visited, for example.

It's not a weak design, but weaker than Prague's. Then again, Prague had it easy given the fact that it's aviary is located on a natural cliff face which merely had to be enclosed by some very industrial-looking green metal, whereas Chester has created a phenomenally impressive stand-alone structure.

I'd be interested whether you would agree with me that Chester has a reasonable shout at being the second-best non-specialist zoo in the world for birds, mind you!

I don't think I've seen enough of the other great bird collections (Zoo Berlin or San Diego spring to mind from what I've heard) to comment, nor, for that matter, enough of Chester's bird collection with walkthrough aviaries closed on my visit. I think that for it's various excellent greenhouses, very large collection and best-of-its-kind bird show, Beauval would also be in with a shout for second place, but then again there are a lot of really poor aviaries there, and pinioned birds. I'd be interested to hear from you about how you think Chester compares to Zoo Berlin from a bird standpoint, seeing as I know you're very familiar with both collections.

I think my general thinking on this is that a 4-1 vote has a different "feel" to a 3-2 vote, and that therefore a collection has to *really* display little of merit in order to only earn a single point. As such I think that if I felt a match comprised a 75:25 split (for instance) I would cast a 4-1 vote, but if the split was 73:27 I would probably round down to 3-2 even though mathematically-speaking rounding to the higher vote would be closer.

I think this is another reason why there is such a big subjectivity factor in these cup threads: different interpretations of the scoring system. For me, the point where a 3-2 becomes a 4-1 is when one participant is twice as good as the other. Or as a ratio, 67:33. That is why I initially parked myself at 4-1 Prague. I thought that in terms of raw numbers the collection is nearly twice as big, but when you take into account the endless list of breeding successes, the mouth-watering rarity list and perfect presentation and I think that increases to double the quality. 4-2 would be perfect, and to be honest if it were an option, I'd still go that way, but the more I considered the tropical houses, the more I concluded that 3-2 is more appropriate.