I would assume once construction is over, there will be much more ability to house him separately/in a flexible way with the females. Even if Swazi isn't fond of him, if they can have him and her apart... a capable bull is a capable bull for others (presumptively hoping).
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation
- Thread starter The Horse Boy
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I would assume once construction is over, there will be much more ability to house him separately/in a flexible way with the females. Even if Swazi isn't fond of him, if they can have him and her apart... a capable bull is a capable bull for others (presumptively hoping).
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
There is very little reason for the zoo to lie about why he was moved. If it was for construction reasons as was commonly speculated, then why make up something about the matriarch not liking him? Zoos do lie, but I can't see a circumstance where the reasoning would be negative PR for the zoo.
Let’s just say there’s more going on behind the scenes that’s not being publicly shared. And that’s all I’m going to say there.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I suppose the main concern with Musi returning then is of Swazi and Ndula having more calves. If Swazi not being fond of him isn't true then she may not be a problem, but Ndula would have to be AI'd or have a second bull brought in. Both are wildborn cows with limited representation, it would be ideal for them to conceive again.
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
Certainly agree, since it has been confirmed that there are currently seven unknown pregnant cows in the population, and that San Diego doesn't announce their calves until after they are born, I can 100% see one or more of the girls at SDZSP pregnant.
However, I am a bit skeptical on Musi returning to the Safari Park as he was moved over to the zoo because the female elephants did not like him and "kicked him out" only about year after he arrived, so there is certainly a chance it may happen again if he returns to the Safari Park, so it very well might not be the best option for him.
Honestly it makes little sense in the wider scheme of things when Vusmusi is spending most of his time by himself anyway.
Perhaps with the construction, the Safari Park were forced to group Musi with the cows more often than previously, and they obviously wouldn't be too fond of it. But that's just an assumption of mine.
The fact that they're seemingly open to him returning indicates that the Safari Park might be confident in their being an adequate solution (ie. there being the space to accommodate him separately now with the construction almost completed).
The zoo stated or maybe it was confirmed by zoochat that stated this, it was the parks matriarch that had issues with him. But some of the females like Phakamile were actually very fond of him.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I don't really see moving Musi back to Sdsp being a constructive gesture since his natal herd clearly still lives there.
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
This is incorrect, only his mother (Ndula) and younger half-brother (Zuli) live at the zoo, the other six cows are all unrelated to him. Swazi, the herd's matriarch, has been retired from breeding, but he can breed with other five, even Mikaya is now seven and at the start of breeding age.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
Oh right, I just stupidly forgot they have 3 or so different matrilines lol. Perhaps moving him back to the WAP would be flawless if they moved his mother to another facility
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
It has been discussed earlier that elephants not returning to Oakland is reputed to be on the grounds of being allies with big name anti zoo organizations who are notoriously so against the entire notion of elephants in captivity. I would be absolutely flying high if they did return to housing them so that bay area residents can see these giants in front of their eyes if they wanted, and they have plenty of land for a new habitat. If they were unaffiliated with most animal rights cohorts, like nearly all the other AZA facilities who view them as enemies, then i'm sure they would have either brought in a young bachelor pair or trio or a new matrline.
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They'd have to go into the greenbelt or start going up the hill. Greenbelt seems like it might be off-limits, but hard to tell. Extending the habitat up the hill would require a rethink of the viewing area due to how the land slopes. Their elephant section is already decently sized to begin with. Bit moot though since I doubt they're going back into elephants.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Very disappointing to hear she has been retired. As a wildborn cow, she should be a priority female. Same goes for Ndula. It's great that Musi has shown some true breeding promise, but it's frustrating that it has to come at the expense of other cows' wildborn genes. Ndula, at the very least, should be given the oppertunity to have a daughter as she is the only founder cow in the park currently without her own matriline
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
It's been nearly a year since Osh moved to TES now
Strange that they have been mute about the future of the current habitat since then and still haven't said anything now.
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Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
They most likely haven't said anything because they're still in talks about what to do. They've been pretty clear that bringing back elephants would mean a rennovated or new complex, so there's the cost factor to consider. Then of course they have to consider what housing elephants would do to their affiliations with strongly anti-cap organizations like PETA, PAWS, etc.
However I must agree with other users here in saying that it is unlikely that the zoo will opt to bring them back. Despite what was released by the zoo, it doesn't feel like a coincidence that their relatively young, fertile bull went to a sanctuary versus a bachelor holding or breeding facility. They evidently value their partnerships with anti-cap organizations, and I would be shocked to see them jeopardize that in favor of having a big ticket animal.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
And if they are silent about renovating and modernizing the existing facility wether elephants or another species will inhabit it, i'm positove it's for safety matters and also to stop animal activists from blowing their tops at them. Obv the same is said for LA's scenario
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I think it's pretty clear all around that elephants will not be returning to Oakland. I can't see many facilities being all too eager to send them new animals even if they did build a new complex, considering their most recent move was shuttling an imported bull in his prime to a sanctuary blackhole for public opinion political points. Doesn't exactly scream trustworthy player.
Also on that note - has anyone heard what Howletts/the EEP think of that move? I can't imagine it's strengthened motive to work collaboratively with the AZA/SSP in importing other individuals to NA.
Also on that note - has anyone heard what Howletts/the EEP think of that move? I can't imagine it's strengthened motive to work collaboratively with the AZA/SSP in importing other individuals to NA.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I imagine Howletts was all for it. They had plans to send their elephants back to Africa and release them.
Bizarre. So much effort to ship him to America in the first place, all for.......... nothing. :/
On the topic of imports, I never see much chatter about Tutume at Granby. Given that Granby is planning on getting out of elephants, I'm curious to see if he'll eventually be shipped south. Same with the male at Parc Safari.
Ideally, it'd be lovely to see the females between the 2 facilities go to TES or something of the like, and the males sent to other facilities in the US for natural breeding opportunities.
Ideally, it'd be lovely to see the females between the 2 facilities go to TES or something of the like, and the males sent to other facilities in the US for natural breeding opportunities.