Melbourne Zoo Rigo the gorilla.....

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Grantmb, I knew about how G-anne lost her hand (I have the name of the drug that was used written down somewhere). She also had one breast removed at the same time. I didn't realise this happened at Jersey, I always thought she reacted to the drug on route to Australia.

None of this has stopped her giving birth to Ganyeka. He was a caesarian delivery as he was a very big baby and in the wild they both would have died.

It seems dumb, and obvious, but I've never actually considered the genetic value from the mother's side and you're absolutely right that G-Anne and Julia are of value.

From my understanding about the great apes they learn mostly from their immediate group and other individuals....so if they haven't been involved or witnessed a female raising a baby they need to be 'shown' what to do. (They're a bit like us I believe....we don't do much instinctively and we learn our behaviour from parents, peers, etc. Our values and actions are learnt from our parents.)

I think that one reason Motaba has been such a successful group leader is because his father, Jambo, was such a success. I hope I'm wrong....because if I'm right then Rigo faces a lot of challenges.

Back to G-Anne....she has heaps of attitude. (She has been known to poke out her tongue at patrons.)
 
despite the genetic value of ganyeka and jumatano, i think its a shame that its only on their mothers side. jambo had a lot of babies, and many of them are reproducing as well.
 
zookiah63 said:
Grantmb, I knew about how G-anne lost her hand (I have the name of the drug that was used written down somewhere). She also had one breast removed at the same time. I didn't realise this happened at Jersey, I always thought she reacted to the drug on route to Australia.

Back to G-Anne....she has heaps of attitude. (She has been known to poke out her tongue at patrons.)
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See, everyone is learning all the time- I didn't know G.Anne had a breast removed at the same time as the hand amputation. In view of that and the difficult birth of Ganyeka, I wonder if its a very good idea to try and breed her again?- that's if she'll allow Rigo anywhere near her... the 'attitude' is no doubt from her early rearing(handraised, no companions, so she was effectively humanised already before going to Jersey). Basically she's a humanised gorilla living happily among other gorillas- there are various others, particularly females e.g. at Howletts UK, like that- it can work okay with females.

I believe Motaba(son of Nandi & Jambo) is quite a gentle male? (jambo was too) But some of Jambo's sons by his other female N'Pongo were more 'stroppy'- N'pongo had a more 'acid' nature than Nandi and may have passed that on too. I think Motaba is/was a good group leader as he had a perfect background- mother-reared and living in a social group. I'm expecting(hoping) that Rigo will be perfectly okay too.
 
kelvin said:
despite the genetic value of ganyeka and jumatano, i think its a shame that its only on their mothers side. jambo had a lot of babies, and many of them are reproducing as well.
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Yes, Jambo has a very large family and several are breeding in other zoos. So the value of these two is compromised by that fact. But being the sole offspring of either parent is still genetically important. As most groups have one male and several females, the male is bound to be more heavily represented in the offspring.

The reason Jambo's line was so successful was mainly that initially, the first three offspring(six babies) of both his females were handraised as the two mothers wouldn't look after them. By baby No. 4 they started to mother-rear so breeding then slowed down. I think nowadays Jambo's breeding performance would be limited artificially!
 
zookiah63 said:
From my understanding about the great apes they learn mostly from their immediate group and other individuals....so if they haven't been involved or witnessed a female raising a baby they need to be 'shown' what to do.
Yep, correct, except every so often a gorilla mother will disprove it! I've known of a handraised female with no experience of other mothers or their babies, yet still rear her first baby in perfect fashion. Not common, but it's happened more than once. Example; 'Romina' at the Bristol Zoo(aged 27) was partly handraised in Rome Zoo, she has only ever seen about two other gorillas in her whole life- and no babies or younger animals whatsoever. Two years ago she bred successfully for the first time at Bristol and has raised her baby perfectly...
And the reverse- despite having large social groups,with mothers rearing babies continously, Howletts in the UK have always had to remove some babies for handraising. Sometimes just the first baby- sometimes repeatedly. Even now there is still an 'orphan' group- these are mostly the ones they use for their rehabilitation projects in Africa.

Unfortunately, there's just no set rule. But I've never known of a female which reared a baby properly, to then reject a later one.
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Zoo_Boy said:
i don't know if this has been discussed, despite all the logistics which i am aware of, what would be the chance of melbourne getting new blood, new females to add to the group?
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I would think its very slim indeed at present. But they aren't a group with closely related animals, none of the adults are related and none (except Motaba) have more than one offspring in the group.

'ZooPro' is our man here, I think...
 
Gorillas Galore

For anyone interested, there's an American website with the above title(note spelling) which displays data on all zoo gorillas worldwide. You can access them by Zoo, country or Sb number. Find the right zoo and all gorillas past and present are listed. e.g. for 'Motaba' it will give you full details including all his relatives and offspring worldwide and you can cross-over to any of them for more info. Beware there are a few innaccuracies e.g. some captive born animals are listed as w/c and vice versa but generally it is very good.

I just referred to it and found I wasn't 100% accurate on G.Anne. She does have several half-siblings living in the USA, offspring of her father Moemba with another female. But she's still the only living offspring on her mother's side, the same way Ganyeka is to her, so he's still important- especially if she doesn't breed again.
 
Rigo and the group.

I've just come across some photos of Rigo and the females(namely g.Anne, Julia and a couple of Jumatano..) all taken very recently since they've been on display together. Rigo has certainly aged since I last saw him a number of years ago- he's now got the rather angular profile and very grey, slightly untidy coat that older silverbacks often develop, and his face is more wrinkled too. But the photos show he's still in excellent condition and seems contented- looking in his new role..(i hope?)
 
patrick said:
ah...hem! link please?
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Flickr photos tagged with gorilla.

You' ll have to look through about 25 pages of people's zoo gorilla photos(millions of them) then there's a set of about 31 pix of Melb. gorillas including good old Rigo. Several of the females are wrongly labelled 'Rigo' too but you can easily tell who is who. Some of 'Julia' it says ' she could be pregnant' but I guess the photographer just thought she looks that way. G.Anne still looks as slim as in her Jersey days.
 
Julia is looking a bit "podgy". It seem Yushka lost her weight and Julia found it!
G-Anne is just plain great. I think she's getting better looking as she gets older...even though she looks a bit grumpy.

Well I was at the zoo today. Rigo spent all day occupying the heated cave that up until now had been Motaba's "spot". In fact, if you didn't know it was Rigo you would think it was Motaba. Rigo spend the day on his back, on his side, sitting up and watching us watching him and lying back on his side. He came out once to relieve himself.

I think G-Anne might be 'interested'. Jumatano was busying herself with a new pile of straw (she would shove it into a giant bowl and pour it over her head....then she would run around in circles beating her chest....she's hilarious.)

Things are going well with the intros - in fact there's nothing extraordinary happening at all.
 
zookiah63 said:
Well I was at the zoo today. Rigo spent all day occupying the heated cave that up until now had been Motaba's "spot". In fact, if you didn't know it was Rigo you would think it was Motaba. Rigo spend the day on his back, on his side, sitting up and watching us watching him and lying back on his side. He came out once to relieve himself.

Things are going well with the intros - in fact there's nothing extraordinary happening at all.
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There's a photo of Rigo in that batch i mentioned where he is sitting in the cave- in fact it is the best shot of him... It seems to prove its the best spot in the enclosure from a silverback's poin of view....

When you say 'intros' is he still not with all the(female) group, or is it really past the introduction stage now?
 
patrick said:
heres the link sillys....

Western Lowlands Gorillas - a photoset on Flickr

hes aged. i haven't had a good look at him in years......

agreed i like the "cave" shot best. simply because of the way his legs are crossed!!

he still has a very formidable face though doesn't he!!!
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Wow, I'm amazed you found those pictures okay. I had to flick through about 25 pages of shots to get to them. I had another look at them again yesterday....

Did you see any of the ones of Ya Kwanza/Mzuri at Jersey Zoo. He now looks pretty much like Rigo did twenty years ago....
 
patrick said:
i just went to flickr and did a search for "melbourne" "gorilla" & "rigo"

kazam! ;)
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For some reason they didn't come up when I did that.... probaby me:(

And if you want to see arguably THE most impressive male gorilla in any zoo try clicking on "San Fransisco Gorilla OJ "(or "Oscar Jonesy") He is absolutely superb to look at, 3rd generation from the first breeding pair at Columbus Zoo- sadly he isn't a breeder but many of his relatives are.
 
Wow, he's back. So many questions. I'd love to know what his management team hope for. OMG, the ultimate outcome would be a natural conception, is that too much to hope for and is it expected (more questions later). Either way who cares, he is out and about and the perception of his isolation is over. I know true gorilla fans care about his genetic integrity and I do a little but even if this is an enrichment experience for Rigo that is the best reason of all. All wild captured and traumatised gorillas in captivity MUST be treated as having "special needs" and Melbourne Zoos treatment of Rigo is special and I for one thank them for Rigo's second chance at a real life. Well done.:)

Looked at photos and yeah, he sure does look a lot older. But guess who will be going to the zoo, zoo, zoo - How about you, you, you?:D

There is a gorilla feature on Flickr and sorry grantsmb, but I still think that you can't beat Rigo or Ya Kwanza for handsomeness (is that a word) or superbness but I am biased.:o
 
You'll find Rigo relaxing in his cave.

I saw the photos of Oscar Jonesy in the US....what a stunning animal!

ALL gorillas are beautiful.
 
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