Paignton Zoo orangutan bulu

Gigit said:
Sumatran orangs (in my opinion) make a much better exhibit, in captivity they are far more active than Borneans. Compare the two species at Chester for example- the Sumatran group is really interesting to watch, while the Borneans just sit and do nothing. Its a pity Paignton have Borneans.

Obviously because of my strong attachment to Bulu and her family I can't agree with your last comment! I haven't seen enough Sumatrans to compare them. The Twycross orangs seem more active than Paignton's and when Gigit came from there, she really stirred things up. Even Bulu climbed up to the high platforms indoors.
Click to expand...

I can understand where you are coming from. One of the problems with the Paignton Orangs is Bulu and Senja in particular had spent very many years in traditional cages at London zoo- and even to start with at Paignton too. I remember Senja was so obese she could hardly get off the floor in the Le Fevre House. So they are a particularly bad example. Its interesting you say that Gigit stimulated more activity among them too. Do you know how why Gigit died? i Heard she was frightened of Nakal and fell or jumped onto concrete.

I can promise you Sumatrans are always far more active- given the correct climbing equipment they will utilise an enclosure far more. Even an adult male Sumatran will do cartwheels and brachiate high up if ropes and handholds are provided.

For me its not so much wanting entertainment from them, more knowing that a higher level of activity means they are interested and stimulated by their environment.
 
grantsmb said:
For me its not so much wanting entertainment from them, more knowing that a higher level of activity means they are interested and stimulated by their environment.
Click to expand...

I suppose the problem is the Bornean orangs condition (obesity), their lack of previous climbing experience and a not so stimulating environment are to blame.

Orangs are not gorillas. Gorillas spent so much time on the floor of the rainforest, whereas orangs just hang out in trees alot. I just find that many orang exhibits in captivity are dull and drab. This is reflected also in the fact that often they are not that active. These are highly intelligent apes that need a challenge. I say let us think and give it to them.

So, again I plead for an orang house separate to the gorillas. Similarly, I think the introduction of an adult male might just stimulate the females into some more ground and tree action. An added bonus would be having the females breed again (they are still not past that age .... :o.
 
jelle said:
I suppose the problem is the Bornean orangs condition (obesity), their lack of previous climbing experience and a not so stimulating environment are to blame.
Click to expand...

as long as I can remember, its been a problem for zoos to get their Orangutans 'off the ground' It used to be the cages that were the problem, though nowadays things are improving and we are seeing enclosures built around the needs of Orangutans more. But being so intelligent, they sometimes don't utilise the space if there's no stimulus to do so. Why climb a tree if there's nothing(e.g food) at the top. I'd like to see more enrichment e.g. snacks and fruit placed in hidden parts of the enclosure or high up to encourage climbing.

Regarding breeding at Paignton. Its all a bit uncertain but as far as I know this line which includes both Gambira and Chinta as all three females are related- is fairly well represented. I'm not sure that further breeding is recommended by EEP for these particular animals at present. Perhaps this is why another male has not yet arrived..
 
orang09 said:
so was gigit born at twycross didnt she give birth to beau at blackpool zoo ? whats gigit history - babies , age , history etc
Click to expand...

Gigit was born at Jersey Zoo on 20 November 1990 and was transferred to Twycross to be hand reared. She rejected her son, Beau, who also had to be hand reared before he went to Blackpool. Before she moved to Paignton in 2002, she gave birth to a stillborn infant. As I said, she stirred up the Paignton orangs and drew crowds. I always thought she was the Miss World of Orangutans and she was very charismatic. Because she was hand reared she connected really well with humans and people reponded to her, so I like to think that her legacy is that she generated a lot of interest in her species. Her sad death on 5 May 2005 was said to be the result of a fit. She was in the show den with Chinta, and Bulu and Gambira who looked traumatised for a couple of weeks afterwards. I believe Nakal was very gentle with her but she remained unimpressed.
 
Gigit said:
Gigit was born at Jersey Zoo on 20 November 1990 and was transferred to Twycross to be hand reared.
Click to expand...

Gigit's parents at Jersey were Giles x Kupo Kupo.

Her one offspring 'Beau' should breed at Blackpool. His grandfather Giles- now at Beauval- has few descendants (he has another daughter Manis, in the Beauval group) There is also another similar aged male 'Ramon'(from Russia) at Blackpool but I've heard 'Beau' is bigger and stronger.

'Beau' is already 8 years old and so could start breeding quite soon(he's already older than Nakal when he bred with his mother at Paignton)
Being handraised shouldn't be a problem either- he has had Orangutan company from an early age at Blackpool and Orangs don't seem to be affected by handrearing in the same way as Gorillas. I'm hopeful he will carry on Gigit's(and Giles') line..
 
orang09 said:
wow thnx 4 that - has kupo kupo have anymore offspring and giles ?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, Giles had three offspring with 3 different females,

f. Manis. (Giles x Bali) born Jersey Now at Beauval (where Giles is too.)
f. Gigit (giles x Kupo) born Jersey sent to Twycross died at Paignton
f. Theodora (gilesx Kibriah) born Tweycross, still at Twycross.
 
Gigit said:
I've also found for Giles:
1972 Tunku (Giles x Gina)
1982 Sandaka (Giles x Bali)

and for Kupo Kupo and Giles:
1985 Lee Lee
Click to expand...

Yes indeed.

'Tunku'(a male)was a hybrid Bornean x Sumatran as Bornean 'Giles' arrived at Jersey with the Sumatran 'Gina'. They knew they were different subspecies and weren't going to breed them together, but he was the younger of the pair and they didn't think he would be fertile for a while- but he was...;)

Then they repaired them correctly), Giles with Bali(after her first mate Oscar died) and Gina with Gambar(Sumatran male from London Zoo) Then Bali died and Giles had Kibriah and Kupo as partners too.
 
grantsmb said:
Yes indeed.

'Tunku'(a male)was a hybrid Bornean x Sumatran as Bornean 'Giles' arrived at Jersey with the Sumatran 'Gina'. They knew they were different subspecies and weren't going to breed them together, but he was the younger of the pair and they didn't think he would be fertile for a while- but he was...;)

Then they repaired them correctly), Giles with Bali(after her first mate Oscar died) and Gina with Gambar(Sumatran male from London Zoo) Then Bali died and Giles had Kibriah and Kupo as partners too.
Click to expand...

Very interesting! Do you have dates for any of these events?
 
Gigit said:
Very interesting! Do you have dates for any of these events?
Click to expand...

This should be under Jersey Orangs really, but there's still a link with Bulu...

Gambar(Sumatran) arrived London 1966
sent to Jersey 1971 and paired with Gina.
died 1997

Giles & Gina. Arrived together at Jersey 1968. estimated ages 2(Giles) & 4(Gina) Giles was later paired with Bali. He was eventually sent to Beauval in 1993. Gina is still at Jersey.

G & G's only offspring together was Tunku(x) male born 1972. Father Giles was estimated only FIVE years old at time of conception. (Gina estimated 7.)

Tunku was sent to Wroclaw (Poland) in 1985 No idea if he's still alive.

The link with Bulu? Gambar was was Bulu's first orangutan companion at London Zoo. After being seperated from her mother 'Toli' she was kept with a baby chimp until Gambar arrived in 1966. Unfortunately he was the wrong subspecies... Bulu & Gambar were together until he left for Jersey.
Bulu was then paired with 'Boy' plus female 'Twiggy' (newer Bornean arrivals) and they later started breeding. 'Boy' is also listed as father of Kupo(Boy x Twiggy) as Twiggy was later sent to Twycross.

Confused yet?
 
Many thanks for all that. I found out that Tunku is still alive. Bulu's had quite a life!
 
Gigit said:
Many thanks for all that. I found out that Tunku is still alive. Bulu's had quite a life!
Click to expand...

I think Tunku was sent away with a female hybrid, similarly produced by accident at much the same time at London Zoo and fathered by Gambar(it wasn't Bulu's though)

Bulu had offspring by several different males during her many years at London Zoo.
 
London's female hybrid 'Sayang' was born the same year(1971) as Tunku.
Her parents were; Gambar(S) x Bunty(B)

In 1978 'Sayang' was sent to Jersey as a partner for Tunku, who was vasectomised to prevent them breeding. They were sent to Wroclaw together.

Bulu's first successful birth at London was f. Suka (Boy x Bulu) She had a stillbirth prior to that.
 
so from this post bulu offspring were gambira , nakal , sanja and suka still workin gon the rest - also gile and kuppo kupo had lee - lee what sex is she and where is she dead ? and has kupo kupo had anyother children her half sister was very productive with kibriah , maliku and tiga and she still breeding but not can beat bulu breeding history keep me posted about anymore news of her offspring comes to u
 
My information is that Lee Lee is male and at Fuengirola. I'm pretty sure that Kadim was Bulu's son, as well as Chinta's father, so that's 5 of her 11 offspring tracked down, 6 if you count her first stillborn one?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top