Port Lympne Wild Animal Park Port Lympne black rhino

I think Port Lympne probably choose the rhinos they send for relocation on an 'age suitability' basis as much as anything. But most of their younger rhinos are sired by the same two or three bulls so there are plenty of relatives of the relocated rhinos still living at Port Lympne.

I do know with the Gorillas though at least one baby that was returned to Africa was the(then)only offspring of a wildcaught female(Sidonie) and I don't think she's had any more since(?). So her genes are unlikely to be represented in the captive population in future.
 
Hadley said:
The flipside of that is that european collections actually successful with breeding Black Rhino would likely have little trouble importing the occasional semi-wild animal from a game reserve if they were seen to be putting something back.
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Hadley,

European zoos have imported in the late 1990's several michaeli black rhino from South Africa, but at a huge cost. It has worked for some collections, but it is not the option unless the South African conservation authorities become more at home with global species management issues.

This is also illustrated in their policy towards reintroductions range states in Eastern Africa. Only marginally have the South African and privately kept michaeli black rhino assisted in the regeneration of the species there.

In that respect, Port Lympne has been the sole contributor to bringing back michaeli black rhino to a western Serengeti reserve (2 to date) and to the South African privately kept rhinos (3 to date). Frankfurt Zoo has done a similar job by relocating 3 female offspring of the minor black rhino subspecies back to eastern South Africa (Marakele National Park).

Port Lympne - as Pertinax noted - choose their rhinos on an age suitability basis. However, with that stated policy they impede development of the EEP population and its potential to contribute as a whole population to reintroduction of rhinos in Africa.

One of the challenges for Mark Pilgrim will be to engage the Port Lympne reintroduction policy and pacify this with developping a stable EEP michaeli black rhino population that can still contribute substantially to in situ conservation - both with loaning out individual rhinos, resources and scientific cooperation.
 
Dont't PL have a aggressive bull, M'waniki, there is something about him on their website. Whats his breeding like?
 
Upali said:
Dont't PL have a aggressive bull, M'waniki, there is something about him on their website. Whats his breeding like?
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Oh,yes, I think you're right. Didn't he come from San Diego or somewhere in America? - in which case he's totally unrelated to their females. I don't remember if he is fully adult though or if he has mated any of their females.
 
"M'waniki (born in 1980) has a reputation of being aggressive. He is the only rhino in the herd to have killed another rhino (while at a zoo in America) Hopefully he will be a father soon after mating with 2 of our females.

Before arriving at Port Lympne he was on his own at Western Plains Zoo in Dubbo, Australia. He originated from America, so is well travelled! After fighting with one of our females, he was knocked into place and is now quite well behaved. He has recently been introduced to two other females, as Vugu and Ruaha who he was with are both pregnant."

Off the website.
 
So port Lympne have got a mature, unrelated bull and they don't need Chester's Quinto at the present time. I probably saw this bull last time I visited PL, but unfortunately the rhinos are not name-labelled- like nearly all the other animals at the Parks- so I wouldn't know if I saw him or not.
 
jelle said:
Hadley,

European zoos have imported in the late 1990's several michaeli black rhino from South Africa, but at a huge cost. It has worked for some collections, but it is not the option unless the South African conservation authorities become more at home with global species management issues.

This is also illustrated in their policy towards reintroductions range states in Eastern Africa. Only marginally have the South African and privately kept michaeli black rhino assisted in the regeneration of the species there.

In that respect, Port Lympne has been the sole contributor to bringing back michaeli black rhino to a western Serengeti reserve (2 to date) and to the South African privately kept rhinos (3 to date). Frankfurt Zoo has done a similar job by relocating 3 female offspring of the minor black rhino subspecies back to eastern South Africa (Marakele National Park).

Port Lympne - as Pertinax noted - choose their rhinos on an age suitability basis. However, with that stated policy they impede development of the EEP population and its potential to contribute as a whole population to reintroduction of rhinos in Africa.

One of the challenges for Mark Pilgrim will be to engage the Port Lympne reintroduction policy and pacify this with developping a stable EEP michaeli black rhino population that can still contribute substantially to in situ conservation - both with loaning out individual rhinos, resources and scientific cooperation.
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But there is only a need for the EEP to take priority in our eyes as we are european, but there really is no obligation for South African conservation authorities, or any other African body, to cooperate with captive breeding efforts in the Europe, especially given the ability of most zoos to breed the various subspecies of Black Rhino. European zoos aren't going to save the Black Rhino from extinction, keeping them well-stocked this species is only a conservation priority for zoo bodies in europe. In a way I understand why Port Lypmne would be less keen to integrate fully into an EEP as at this stage they would be propping up collections less successful at breeding rhino, when their goal has always been to see captive-bred stock returned to their countries of origin. If breeding was more successful in europe, there would be less criticism of Port Lympne releasing these animals.
 
I think that Black Rhino is a species that does best under the sort of captive situation that Port Lympne(and now Howletts) offer them, with very large amounts of space.

Considering they started with just three Black Rhino, they have bred an extraordinary number, and I tend to agree that they are justified in going ahead with their own reintroduction schemes for this species. The fact that they prefer to send animals for relocation, rather than to bolster flagging populations in other zoos, was one of the reasons why John Aspinall's collections always stood apart from others.

But I also agree there are some situations where it would be beneficial for animals from Howletts/Port Lympne to be made available to other zoos, and in fact nowadays they don't act so independently of other zoos as they used to. Surplus Bull Rhinos have gone to Chester(and one from there on to France) and Paignton, while over the years Gorillas have been sent to Chessington, Jersey, Belfast, and quite recently to two zoos in France, as well as being used in rehabilitation schemes in Africa..
 
Port Lympne is currently without a proven breeding bull. Mwaniki died December 2005 and Addo/Gareth Edwards died in May 2006.

With 6 proven females and no births since 2006, I find that a worrying development. They really need an unattached eastern black rhino ex US zoos soon (their surplus is 39.29 in the SSP)!

Will check what they will do next.
 
jelle said:
Port Lympne is currently without a proven breeding bull. Mwaniki died December 2005 and Addo/Gareth Edwards died in May 2006.

With 6 proven females and no births since 2006, I find that a worrying development. They really need an unattached eastern black rhino ex US zoos soon (their surplus is 39.29 in the SSP)!

Will check what they will do next.
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That's a bad situation.... I guess M'Waniki (aged 27) and Addo(aged?) both died of old age, though 'Jos' was younger. Do you know if the females mated by M'Waniki successfully produced calves.

Another mature bull, preferably from the USA, is badly needed now-unless Chester loan them 'Quinto' (now that Sammy is maturing Chester don't need Quinto as well)
 
Pertinax said:
That's a bad situation.... I guess M'Waniki (aged 27) and Addo(aged?) both died of old age, though 'Jos' was younger. Do you know if the females mated by M'Waniki successfully produced calves.

Another mature bull, preferably from the USA, is badly needed now-unless Chester loan them 'Quinto' (now that Sammy is maturing Chester don't need Quinto as well)
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I do not entirely agree on this with you.

I do think that an institution like Chester with a big group of black rhinos needs an alternate bull. Quinto being the more tested of the 2 bulls (Sammy is only 7-ish), I think HE should be the breeding companion for Rosie (aggressive, nervous disposition ... etcetera). The same holds true for all other important EEP Black rhino holders (Berlin Zoo, Dvur Kralove, Zuerich Zoo).

I still subscribe to the opinion it is best for the EEP to import several new males (and not just the 1) of different genetic lines from the US (where bulls are in over-supply). Later today I will make up a list of good candidates (excepting the Cincinnati line of black rhinos already represented in the EEP).
 
jelle said:
I do not entirely agree on this with you.

I do think that an institution like Chester with a big group of black rhinos needs an alternate bull. Quinto being the more tested of the 2 bulls (Sammy is only 7-ish), I think HE should be the breeding companion for Rosie (aggressive, nervous disposition ... etcetera).
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Chester currently have already have 3 bulls- Quinto,Sammy and Magadi 2nd(from Port Lympne)- they presently only have four cows- Kitani, Manyari, Rosie, Ema. That's almost a 1.1. ratio! Magadi and Ema are a mating pair, Sammy is virtually proven with Kitani now (and is also Mayani's mate). That only leaves 'Rosie' for Quinto and I believe she has behavioural problems which will prevent natural breeding even with an experienced proven bull. If they decide not to risk mixing Quinto and Rosie again then Quinto could easily be spared. Otherwise he's wasted where he is.

I agree a totally unrelated bull from outside the region would be best for Port Lympne but Quinto is 'local' and could be sent to Port Lympne much more speedily.
 
Port Lympne have the space to hold two or more breeding bulls- so they could take Quinto(now) and a USA male (later). I expect you'll say if they were to have two new bulls it would be better if it wasn't Quinto but both were USA males from different lines....;)
 
Pertinax said:
Port Lympne have the space to hold two or more breeding bulls- so they could take Quinto(now) and a USA male (later). I expect you'll say if they were to have two new bulls it would be better if it wasn't Quinto but both were USA males from different lines....;)
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Just a point: Quinto is fine breeding material in regard to Port Lympne stock. However, Magadi at Chester is still not proven (allthough presently trying and looking compatible with Ema). So, my point on 2 different proven bulls still stands.

My comments however are also directed at the desperate NEED to infuse entirely new genetic material into the EEP population. From that point of view it is imperative that several SSP born unrelated males are sent to EEP collections a.s.a.p. (even if that means gruelling docu paperwork and sundry). I will haggle Mark P. on this point a little! :D
 
jelle said:
Just a point: Quinto is fine breeding material in regard to Port Lympne stock. However, Magadi at Chester is still not proven (allthough presently trying and looking compatible with Ema). So, my point on 2 different proven bulls still stands.

My comments however are also directed at the desperate NEED to infuse entirely new genetic material into the EEP population.
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I agree with you that new blood IS needed- so Quinto's availability(or otherwise) is not that relevant to the argument.

As Port Lympne went outside of Europe to aquire 'M'wakini', its quite possible they will do so again now. Did he father any calves at Port Lympne?
 
Jelle, why do you think there is a "desperate need" to bring in unrelated males from the U.S:? Are all black rhinos in Europe already related to each other at a degree that inbreeding problems are expected? I agree that bringing in unrelated animals is always GOOD but I can`see a desperate need as long as it`s still possible to find unrelated mates for many of the animals in breeding age. And inbreding in the first or second generation is not necessarily harmful, neither. Other then importing new males from the US, I might be easier to exchange rhinos between P.L. and mainland Europe - my understanding is that only very few exchanges have happened in the past, with the result that the animals in P.L. and the rest of europe are pretty much unrelated?
 
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