Edinburgh Zoo Edinburgh Zoo news 2011 #1

Pertinax said:
London Zoo has never been the same since the Sealions left- I hope Edinburgh can get around this and keep them. They make a far better exhibit than the Pandas will turn out to be, I am quite sure...
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When and why did the Sea Lions leave London Zoo. I was there in 2001 and then saw their old pool used for Pigmy Hippopotamuses; it is not the largest and probably old but I have seen worse.

I certainly hope that no one at London Zoo thought the docile pigmy hippos would be the same attraction to the general public as the sea lions were? :D
 
Baldur said:
When and why did the Sea Lions leave London Zoo. I was there in 2001 and then saw their old pool used for Pigmy Hippopotamuses; it is not the largest and probably old but I have seen worse.

I certainly hope that no one at London Zoo thought the docile pigmy hippos would be the same attraction to the general public as the sea lions were? :D
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I believe when London was rebranded as a 'Conservation' centre that the Sealions(Californinan) didn't fit the bill anymore. Not sure of the exact date (its on Zoochat somewhere) but there may have also been problems with the pool by then but not sure about that either.

In its heyday it was a pretty good sealion pool- though old there were a couple of natural 'rocky islets in the pool and then the rocky outcrop at the far end off which they would dive for fish. It was certainly one of the most active/interesting exhibits at the zoo and of course drew big crowds at feeding time. The replacement Pygmy Hippos are virtually worthless as an exhibit IMO.
 
Pertinax said:
I believe when London was rebranded as a 'Conservation' centre that the Sealions(Californinan) didn't fit the bill anymore. Not sure of the exact date but there may have also been problems with the pool by then but not sure about that either.

In its heyday it was a pretty good sealion pool- though old there were a couple of natural 'rocky' islets in the pool and then the rocky outcrop at the far end off which they woul dive for fish. It was certainly one of the most active/interesting exhibits at the zoo and of course drew big crowds at feeding time. The replacement Pygmy Hippos are virtually worthless as an exhibit IMO.
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I don't want to turn this into a ZSL discussion (I'd rather like to keep it focused on the zoo which I'm able to call my local zoo now) but I find it strange that London Zoo didn't realise what a popular attraction Sea Lions were and that they'd 'have to' keep them as a reasonably cheap (at least compared to the Pandas Edinburgh is faced with now) crowd-pleaser.

Once I remember watching one of the many series that have been made about various British zoos and this one was on Whipsnade. There was a scene by the old (judging by the tall and heavy bars) lion exhibit, which yet, like the Brown Bear exhibit, looked very good despite its age.

The inhabitant at the time was Whipsnade's very last lion, an aging lioness. A member of staff said to the host that after her death, there would be no more lions at Whipsnade 'because they're not endangered'. However, I understand that Whipsnade has since acquired lions and I think they even keep them in a new exhibit? So could it be that someone at ZSL managed to understand that the people want to see lions? If so, they didn't realise it back when they got rid of the Sea Lions from London Zoo.
 
Pertinax said:
London Zoo has never been the same since the Sealions left- I hope Edinburgh can get around this and keep them. They make a far better exhibit than the Pandas will turn out to be, I am quite sure...
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To be fair that is one example, but let's not forget that Chester's going out of sea lions improved the zoo (I suppose that's just my opinion). For me it was a case of 'with Giant otters, everybody wins' - I was skeptical until I saw it, but it really works on these levels:

1) Now that it's done up, it has gone from one of my least favourite exhibits to one of my favourites at Chester. This is because the enclosure [in general] is better suited to Giant otters than to sea lions.

2) It is a very active and 'fun' species and they are inquisitive, always coming up to the glass or fence to nosey at the visitors, possibly more entertaining than sea lions. The public, from any experience I've seen, has generally fell in love with them.

3) It does what Chester does, and gives you something a little different. Keeps us zoonerds happy :D

So I think Edinburgh can pull it off, depending on what they would do after with the space.
 
Baldur said:
that after her death, there would be no more lions at Whipsnade 'because they're not endangered'. However, I understand that Whipsnade has since acquired lions and I think they even keep them in a new exhibit? So could it be that someone at ZSL managed to understand that the people want to see lions? If so, they didn't realise it back when they got rid of the Sea Lions from London Zoo.
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Its all relevant to Edinburgh's current dilemma, though, as there could be parallels here to London if their sealions left...

Regarding both the Lions at Whipsnade and the Sealions at London. I think what happens is they get rid of a species- because its 'not endangered' or some other policy reason and then only later discover, from the feedback, how much the public miss them. In the case of Lions at Whipsnade, they later brought them back again and yes, its a new and jazzed-up exhibit-'Lions of the Serengeti' In the case of Sealions at London, they didn't return, though I'll bet a number of people complained and maybe still do.

Its interesting that, as has been discussed elsewhere on Zoochat, overall Whipsnade still nowadays have virtually every ABC species that are a major drawcard for a zoo (they still have sealions too) whereas London is nowadays missing a number(e.g. Rhinos, Elephants, Sealions, Bears etc).

Taking the discussion back to Edinburgh, the loss of that sealion exhibit right at the Zoo entrance would be considerable I think. An active and traditional zoo species as soon as you enter the zoo.
 
Javan Rhino said:
but let's not forget that Chester's going out of sea lions improved the zoo For me it was a case of 'with Giant otters, everybody wins' - so I think Edinburgh can pull it off, depending on what they would do after with the space.
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I haven't seen the Giant Otters at Chester (yet..:() but I'll bet they still have a lot of general visitors who miss the Sealions. I agree the Giant Otters are a very good addition to the Collection but to my mind its a pity they couldn't have kept both.

we don't know that Edinburgh will go out of Sealions yet- this seems just press conjecture I think at present. If it does happen though maybe they will copy Chester and convert the outdated pool for Giant Otter too- its currently a very 'fashionable' species.;)
 
Pertinax said:
I haven't seen the Giant Otters at Chester (yet..:() but I'll bet they still have a lot of general visitors who miss the Sealions. I agree the Giant Otters are a very good addition to the Collection but to my mind its a pity they couldn't have kept both.

we don't know that Edinburgh will go out of Sealions yet- this seems just conjecture I think at present. If it does happenthough maybe they will copy Chester and convert the outdated pool for Giant Otter too- its currently a very 'fashionable' species.;)
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It is, and quite rightly :) - you are right that there's no official line though so we'll have to wait and see.

I think there were complaints to start with, but I think if you're going out of sea lions then a big sqeaky otter is what you replace them with :D
 
imho, sea lions are an iconic 20th Century zoo animal.

London had a single South American fur seal for a period after the Californian sea lions left (for Whipsnade?), around 1991-95. At some point before the fur seal arrived, the sea lion pond was altered, the protruding rocks in the pond were removed, as well as some of the rocks around the edge. In fact, the only rock work left was at the back, I believe this is listed and will be incorporated into the design of the tiger exhibit.

I would be surprised if Edinburgh couldn't find the money to bring the exhibit up to scratch, however I think most zoos would opt for a spectacular new exhibit or to give up the species altogether.

With this species, given there hasn't been a successful birth since perhaps the late 80s, (at Curraghs Wildlife Park, which no longer keeps sea lions), I really feel zoos without sufficient funding should not be attempting to keep Patagonian sea lions. Given the lack of success in breeding at Dudley, the lack of success in rearing pups at Twycross, and the single-sex group at Colchester, perhaps another average set up for this species in the UK is not needed? Far better that Edinburgh plough some of their anticipated panda profits into a 'returning' favorite species, such as the sea lion, giving them a high standard of enclosure after a period of absence....
 
johnstoni said:
imho, sea lions are an iconic 20th Century zoo animal.

London had a single South American fur seal for a period after the Californian sea lions left (for Whipsnade?), around 1991-95. At some point before the fur seal arrived, the sea lion pond was altered, the protruding rocks in the pond were removed, as well as some of the rocks around the edge. In fact, the only rock work left was at the back, I believe this is listed and will be incorporated into the design of the tiger exhibit.

I would be surprised if Edinburgh couldn't find the money to bring the exhibit up to scratch, however I think most zoos would opt for a spectacular new exhibit or to give up the species altogether.

With this species, given there hasn't been a successful birth since perhaps the late 80s, (at Curraghs Wildlife Park, which no longer keeps sea lions), I really feel zoos without sufficient funding should not be attempting to keep Patagonian sea lions. Given the lack of success in breeding at Dudley, the lack of success in rearing pups at Twycross, and the single-sex group at Colchester, perhaps another average set up for this species in the UK is not needed? Far better that Edinburgh plough some of their anticipated panda profits into a 'returning' favorite species, such as the sea lion, giving them a high standard of enclosure after a period of absence....
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Yes, I think what also should be remembered is the great age of the Edinburgh sea lion pool, is it worth spending huge sums of money on an exhibit nearing one hundred years old, there is nothing wrong with using building to house animals that are old providing that they are serviceable and animal welfare is not being compromised, I would say the giraffe house at Regents Park would be a good example of this, but for the cost of refurbishing the current sea lion pool at Edinburgh surely it would indeed be best to build a new exhibit, a one of similar standard to the penguins would be great and turn the old one into a duck pond.
 
TARZAN said:
The estimated bill to repair and refurbish the sea lion exhibit is quoted at two million pounds, this seams to be rather high, the cost of refurbishing the sea lion exhibit to its very high standard at Blackpool was I understand in the region of one million pounds.
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Thats the difference when you refurb an enclosure built roundabout 1912 compared with one built in the late 1960`s/early 1970s.Because it will take alot more money to bring it up to modern days standards seeing as it has been hardly altered from the date it was built till now!!
 
TARZAN said:
The estimated bill to repair and refurbish the sea lion exhibit is quoted at two million pounds, this seams to be rather high, the cost of refurbishing the sea lion exhibit to its very high standard at Blackpool was I understand in the region of one million pounds.
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To be fair Blackpool refurbished their enclosure which consisted of an already large pool (by UK zoo standards). Most of the work seemed to consist of an addition of mock rock to the existing exhibit. Not sure whether there was a refurb of the internal house or pump.

Edinburgh's pool has the look of a large water bird pool. I would hazard a guess that the lack of surrounding space limited any expansion.
 
Just visited at the weekend (after a long period of non visits!)
Couple of observations:
Panda enclosure now a full on building site - and teh baboons have moved. It took a while for me to work it out (ask someone!!) but they have temporarily been moved to the lion house(!) where there is work being done to the small pen (a roof) and I was told that the baboons have most of the off show area.

Still a lot of damage noticeable presumably from the snow fall. (net roofs not been fixed, any ideas why the delay?)

Only one tiger... I guess the female has left, tibor was still there, now in the females old enclosure. Anyone know when the new female is due to arrive!?

Also, RE sea lion pool. Surely with a still growing male sea lion, what appears to be an outdated filtration system (the water looks disgusting) it is only fair that the sea lions move on. The pool is very small, especially for such a large species. This space, along with the unused area behind the pool surely with a bit of imagination has enormous potential for a new species. Maybe sea lions would return in the future?
 
Chandra went to a zoo in France just over a week ago and Tibor's mate is to come from Portugal am i right in thinking Lisbon and a Gelada has been born to a first time mum Antonia.
 
jordan-12 said:
Chandra went to a zoo in France just over a week ago and Tibor's mate is to come from Portugal am i right in thinking Lisbon and a Gelada has been born to a first time mum Antonia.
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Which zoo is she at now?

Your correct about Lisbon, They had 1:2 cubs in 2009. They are distantly related to Chandra and Tibor via the infamous "Morris" who was at Berlin Tierpark for many years
 
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