Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens Sumatran rhino returning to LA Zoo

[Blackduiker]

Blackduiker

I wonder were he will be housed i know this wont happen but if he was rotated around Elephants of Asia's yards it would be awesome.

Not an impossibility. There had been recent talk, right before the opening of Elephants of Asia, of possibly integrating rhinos into the habitat as well. Some design graphics even portray rhinos in one of the exhibit yards.

 

[gerenuk]

It would be nearly impossible to include a Sumatran Rhino into the elephant complex, unless Los Angeles can manage to get a Sumatran Rhino to wear sunglasses all the time.

 

[Blackduiker]

Blackduiker

It would be nearly impossible to include a Sumatran Rhino into the elephant complex, unless Los Angeles can manage to get a Sumatran Rhino to wear sunglasses all the time.

Not if you consider what was done to the current Takin exhibit, their former habitat. Originally a yard for Dromedary Camels, and quite barren. Then later a mixed yard for Blackbuck, Axis Deer, and later Gaur. But before the arrival of its first Sumatran Rhino, the space received a makeover of trees and mud wallows.

A couple of yards in Elephants of Asia's huge space could easily be candidates for a bit more lush plantings of vegetation to suite the Sumatran Rhino's need for shade; namely the Cambodia and Deep Pool yards. Only one yard, of course, would be necessary for the Sumatrans, leaving still quite an impressive space for the elephants. And as a second yard, when needed, the Takin space. And even the China yard would be suitable, especially if they added a much needed elevated viewing platform. One of my main complaints with that particular yard.

 

[DavidBrown]

The biggest factor holding back the program in Way Kambas are the managers' reluctance to breed the rhinos. Sumatran Rhino courtship can be rather "rough". Both rhinos often suffer injuries to their faces or legs. Like other Asian rhinos they prefer to use their canines, rather than their horns. Each rhino at the sanctuary has two keepers, they take 12 hours shifts watching the rhinos. Those rhinos are under constant supervision by their keepers. And since the keepers depend on these rhinos for their lively-hood, they are reluctant to allow the rhinos to get hurt in anyway. If one rhino were to die - two keepers loose their jobs.

Do you think that there is any hope of getting the management of the Way Kambas program to allow the rhino courtship to procede the way that it sounds like it needs to procede for breeding to occur? And if that happened, do you think that will lead to successful captive reproduction?

Without this happening I don't see how the politics of this situation would allow importation of Sumatran rhinos back in to US and European zoos. Without an effective in-situ captive breeding program, it seems like it would be little more than a stunt to put a spectacular animal on display rather than an authentic conservation plan to augment the wild population like for California condors or black-footed ferrets. That was the criticism of the original program 20 years ago and not much has changed from the way things look on the outside.

 

[gerenuk]

To answer the first paragraph - change has already happened and resulted with the success of the first pregnancy. However after the dismal results, I doubt IRF and the sanctuary are willing to publicly announce any pregnancies unless they are advanced.

To answer the second paragraph - Its all about the money.

 

[gorgeousingray]

@David, I myself am another young member (15).

Any way, I disagree, the Sumatran rhinoceros shouldn't be put in the elephant yard. The zoo is hopefully about to start an elephant breeding program, and will need all the possible space.

The sumatrans should get their own space. And presumably a brand new complex if and when a female arrives.

As for Cincinatti's rhinos, isn't Ipuh getting on in age? I thought he was older than Emi. I truly am sitting on pins and needles to see what happens with Suci!

 

[DavidBrown]

@David, I myself am another young member (15).

Any way, I disagree, the Sumatran rhinoceros shouldn't be put in the elephant yard. The zoo is hopefully about to start an elephant breeding program, and will need all the possible space.

I am impressed with your contributions too gorgeousingray. I doubt that the elephant yard will be used for rhinos if for no other reason than the LA Zoo is also aiming to build a herd of Asian elephants beyond Billy the male and the two elderly females...presumably the elephant space will be needed for elephants!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

To answer the first paragraph - change has already happened and resulted with the success of the first pregnancy. However after the dismal results, I doubt IRF and the sanctuary are willing to publicly announce any pregnancies unless they are advanced.

To answer the second paragraph - Its all about the money.

Exactamente.

Also, the SRT programme was initiated well before the SSP got involved. I do not see ANY reason why we need another ex situ global rhino transfer for Sumatrans in order to allow them to reproduce. ALL MONEY SHOULD BE ON WAY KAMBAS. It is our common duty to make THAT work and it is all about MONEY!!!

 

[Mr T]

What is Harapan's enclosure like at White Oak? From the pictures I have seen on this forum it looks rather bare and lacks to foliage which many people feel is necessary for a sumatran rhino to be happy in captivity. I may obviously be wrong which is why I am opening this up to people on here who have visited the facility and seen his enclosure.

 

[Javan Rhino]

Out of interest, does anybody know what sort of time frame it's looking like for his arrival? Once he's in then all the pieces would be together to make California a priority trip for me and I'm looking at the possibility of doing a week in San Diego and then a week in LA.

Is it likely he'll be on-show at LA by 2013?

 

[DavidBrown]

Out of interest, does anybody know what sort of time frame it's looking like for his arrival? Once he's in then all the pieces would be together to make California a priority trip for me and I'm looking at the possibility of doing a week in San Diego and then a week in LA.

Is it likely he'll be on-show at LA by 2013?

@Javan Rhino: The article in the LA Zoo newsletter that I based this thread on says only that Harapan is coming "in the near future", which I would interpret to mean that he should be here soon (if not already). Hopefully he will be here for awhile, but the article mentions the possibility that he could go back to Sumatra at some point. Andalas his brother was here from 2003-2007, so I think its reasonable to extrapolate that Harapan may be here for awhile. I would suggest asking the LA Zoo on their Facebook page about exhibit plans and whether it will be likely that he might be here for an extended stay. They do respond to questions.

 

[Javan Rhino]

@Javan Rhino: The article in the LA Zoo newsletter that I based this thread on says only that Harapan is coming "in the near future", which I would interpret to mean that he should be here soon (if not already). Hopefully he will be here for awhile, but the article mentions the possibility that he could go back to Sumatra at some point. Andalas his brother was here from 2003-2007, so I think its reasonable to extrapolate that Harapan may be here for awhile. I would suggest asking the LA Zoo on their Facebook page about exhibit plans and whether it will be likely that he might be here for an extended stay. They do respond to questions.

Thanks for the info - I will ask them and see

 

[gattonuniguy]

I think all Sumartran Rhinos in the U.S should be sent back to join the rest of their species in Sumartra.

What breeding opportunities are there in the States?.

 

[jwer]

I think all Sumartran Rhinos in the U.S should be sent back to join the rest of their species in Sumartra.

What breeding opportunities are there in the States?.

The thing is, what breeding opportunities are there in Sumatra? Only elderly Ipuh and juvenile male Harapan would have a potentially unrelated mate, but Ipuh's son and Harapan's full brother Andalas is already there...

 

[Pertinax]

I think all Sumartran Rhinos in the U.S should be sent back to join the rest of their species in Sumartra.

What breeding opportunities are there in the States?.

But only Cincinnati, not Way Kambas in Sumatra, has managed successfully to breed them, not once, but three times.

Despite the tragic loss of Emi, I still believe Cincinnati have the more advanced science facilities and expertise to now start breeding successfully from their zoobred female Suci, provided they can somehow source a mate. I do not believe she should be returned to Sumatra, at least until they too prove they can breed the species successfully and on a regular basis also. Cincinnati represents the pivot of expertise in this field, not Way Kambas.

Just occassionally a real 'zoo conundrum' arises and this Sumatran 'captive' rhino situation presents one such- how to get a new unrelated male into the captive population- ideally to partner the Cincinnati female. Should they risk capturing one? Waiting for one to become available by entering captivity by chance/mishap, like the two younger females at Way Kambas, could take forever/never happen.

How else can they get her to breed? The only other captive males, either in US and Sumatra being her father (US) and brothers(US & Sumatra.) Should Cincinnati consider breeding her with her father, at least while he is still alive? If they wish to try A1, doesn't she need to mate first anyway to promote ovulation? Where would the unrelated sperm come from- Torgamba?- would it be any use?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Pertinax, Cincin may be high tech ... it is the high tech and top dollar that is needed in Way Kambas and lately the project has been working. I wish JAF got involved again with Zainaluddin .... of Malaysia (all the rest is a complete myth costing us close on 20 Sumatran rhinos ... so the was a huge net loss ....).

 

[Pertinax]

Pertinax, Cincin may be high tech ... it is the high tech and top dollar that is needed in Way Kambas and lately the project has been working.

To me a couple of unsuccessful pregnancies- which is all they have to show so far, is 'not working' .

 

[Mr T]

I wish JAF got involved again with Zainaluddin .... of Malaysia (all the rest is a complete myth costing us close on 20 Sumatran rhinos ... so the was a huge net loss ....).

Sorry for my ignorance but what or who is JAF and again what or who is Zainaluddin?

And what is the myth that is costing 20 sumatran rhinos?

 

[IanRRobinson]

But only Cincinnati, not Way Kambas in Sumatra, has managed successfully to breed them, not once, but three times.

Despite the tragic loss of Emi, I still believe Cincinnati have the more advanced science facilities and expertise to now start breeding successfully from their zoobred female Suci, provided they can somehow source a mate. I do not believe she should be returned to Sumatra, at least until they too prove they can breed the species successfully and on a regular basis also. Cincinnati represents the pivot of expertise in this field, not Way Kambas.

Just occassionally a real 'zoo conundrum' arises and this Sumatran 'captive' rhino situation presents one such- how to get a new unrelated male into the captive population- ideally to partner the Cincinnati female. Should they risk capturing one? Waiting for one to become available by entering captivity by chance/mishap, like the two younger females at Way Kambas, could take forever/never happen.

How else can they get her to breed? The only other captive males, either in US and Sumatra being her father (US) and brothers(US & Sumatra.) Should Cincinnati consider breeding her with her father, at least while he is still alive? If they wish to try A1, doesn't she need to mate first anyway to promote ovulation? Where would the unrelated sperm come from- Torgamba?- would it be any use?

The hard truth, IMHO, is if this species is going to survive then we are going to have to learn how to breed it in managed conditions. Whether that's in Europe, N America or SE Asia doesn't really matter, although the expertise is currently in Cincinnati.

It just seems that the surviving wild populations are too small and too scattered to be viable. Even without poaching or habitat loss, I don't see this animal surviving on just in-situ conservation. More animals need to be caught up, and the sooner the better.

But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Saro]

I can't help but sense an "its all too late anyway" attitude over the whole situation. While the SRT captive program was surely a massive failure overall, it was at least an attempt to do something. After the failure became clear, the efforts made since seem half hearted at best. Considering the huge political and logistical obstacles in the way, I don't really see who or what could turn the tide anymore. I believe secretly, the conservation and zoo community involved has already said goodbye to the Sumatran rhino - they are just too coward to openly admit it - again mostly for financial and political reasons.

I have had the great fortune to see a rather large number of Sumatran rhinos in person between Port Lympne, the US and Sepilok and I was always very moved by these extraordinary animals and their personalities. Keep in mind that this is not just a very rare species, it might very well be the friendliest large wild mammal on earth. It is absolutely sickening to me, that we will likely loose this species, but face it, hope is not in sight - not in the wild and certainly not in captivity. I can not see any coordinated international effort on the horizon - and that is what would be needed to even have a glimpse of hope.