Chester Zoo Chester 2012 news #2

[karoocheetah]

No, quite simply because we where submitting a selection of images at that stage.

We found Chester Zoo`s lack of interest puzzling, to say the least.

It is the Zoos loss, not ours!

Not really, if the zoo didn't know you were donating them then you just look like another photographer sending in your stuff to make a few bucks to be honest. They get images donated from loads of sources as well as having staff who are decent with a camera so they wouldn't reply for that reason alone I would have thought.
I've donated lots of images and they always say thanks - they don't always use them and they occasionally forget to credit the photographer when using images but I don't have a real issue with that.
I agree that normally courtesy would ask for at least a "thanks but no thanks" reply of sorts from any organisation you submit things too - but if it's gone to the wrong place or got lost in the system sometimes it falls through the net?

 

[chip]

Not really, if the zoo didn't know you were donating them then you just look like another photographer sending in your stuff to make a few bucks to be honest. They get images donated from loads of sources as well as having staff who are decent with a camera so they wouldn't reply for that reason alone I would have thought.
I've donated lots of images and they always say thanks - they don't always use them and they occasionally forget to credit the photographer when using images but I don't have a real issue with that.
I agree that normally courtesy would ask for at least a "thanks but no thanks" reply of sorts from any organisation you submit things too - but if it's gone to the wrong place or got lost in the system sometimes it falls through the net?

We were not "donating them".,that`s not what we do. The copyright would always remain with us.
We where intending to offer the zoo the chance to sell them and keep the profit element.

There is a difference between staff members offering snaps and a professional quality, finished block mounted or framed print or canvas!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

We were not "donating them".,that`s not what we do. The copyright would always remain with us.

If you said that in your email to the zoo, that may be somewhere you went wrong.

From their terms and conditions regarding photographs....

By submitting your photo to chesterzoo.org, you grant Chester Zoo a perpetual, royalty-free license to use, reproduce, modify, publish, distribute, and otherwise exercise all copyright and publicity rights with respect to that information at its sole discretion, including storing it on Chester Zoo and/or Flickr servers and incorporating it in other works in any media now known or later developed including without limitation published books, posters, flyers or other printed material.

In other words - by submitting the photos to the zoo, you are signing over the copyright for their use.

 

[karoocheetah]

We were not "donating them".,that`s not what we do. The copyright would always remain with us.
We where intending to offer the zoo the chance to sell them and keep the profit element.

There is a difference between staff members offering snaps and a professional quality, finished block mounted or framed print or canvas!

Yes I've seen your "Chester Zoo Pics" website - I think your images are fine but in truth no better than any others I've seen the zoo use - just because you take the time to get them 'professionally mounted' doesn't make them better or warrant the 'chip' on your shoulder that you appear to have.
Some of the staff's "snaps" as you so patronisingly put it are bloody good and anyone who's been a photographer for any length of time will admit that once the equipment is taken out of the equation it's often a case of being in the right place at the right time to get a stand out image.

Anyone can pay to get their images mounted or framed and in fact I'd hazard a guess that's what any retail outlet can do and normally at a bulk price if they are selling them on.

 

[swampy1967]

Regarding the shop.

Why would anyone want to buy some crappy photo print of animals that dont even belong to the zoo?
[not talking about pencil drawings, but real pics!]

They are probably bought by those less frequent visitors or visiting for the first time,
It does take a bit of experience and a few visits to recognise your Boris from your Nicky, so those buying for a mivering 6 year old who want a picture of the Chimp that slammed into the window wouldnt really know or care it wasnt the "real" CZ animal.

And thats not exclusive to Chester, every collection i been to has "stock" pics for sale in their shops.

If its a couple of quid for a tiger pic and a tenner for an official Fabi pic, who do you think the parents of the mivering 6 year old would buy ??

Last month i replaced my broken Boris keyring.............at Knowsley ....??

 

[SMR]

In other words - by submitting the photos to the zoo, you are signing over the copyright for their use.

That's not entirely correct. The zoo are asking people to agree to those terms when uploading images via their website. If a person sends photographs directly to the zoo, then that person retains the copyright and can decide how their images are used.

Conversely, the zoo allows anyone to take photographs on its premises, provided they are not used for commercial purposes. "Chip" is breaking the zoo's T&C of entry by selling his photographs commercially, either via his own website or via eBay.

 

[Satan]

Why would the zoo give permission for someone to sell images of animals from their collection. By right the photo's you take, cannot be used commercially, it is made clear on the web site. If they wanted a "professional' to take photo's they could get 100's of quotes from photographers in the area. They would be the ones in control.

I noticed this on another website and e-mailed the zoo to let them know someone was selling photo's taken their, only because when I asked the person involved if they had permission I didn't get a response.

Must say I did not get a response from them regarding that either.

 

[chip]

If you said that in your email to the zoo, that may be somewhere you went wrong.

From their terms and conditions regarding photographs....



In other words - by submitting the photos to the zoo, you are signing over the copyright for their use.

It wasnt an email to the zoo.

I am aware of the terms and conditions of the zoo, if anyone is daft enough to give pics away willy nilly so be it.

We had telephone conversations beforehand and delivered samples to the zoo.
Your`e missing the point.........The zoo had a chance to sell proper pics of the animals in the zoo, but prefers to sell generic pics!

 

[chip]

That's not entirely correct. The zoo are asking people to agree to those terms when uploading images via their website. If a person sends photographs directly to the zoo, then that person retains the copyright and can decide how their images are used.

Conversely, the zoo allows anyone to take photographs on its premises, provided they are not used for commercial purposes. "Chip" is breaking the zoo's T&C of entry by selling his photographs commercially, either via his own website or via eBay.

Chester zoo prefers to sell sub-standard pics of animals then?



Have you looked at shutterstock lately?

 

[chip]

Why would the zoo give permission for someone to sell images of animals from their collection. By right the photo's you take, cannot be used commercially, it is made clear on the web site. If they wanted a "professional' to take photo's they could get 100's of quotes from photographers in the area. They would be the ones in control.

I noticed this on another website and e-mailed the zoo to let them know someone was selling photo's taken their, only because when I asked the person involved if they had permission I didn't get a response.

Must say I did not get a response from them regarding that either.

I dont think Chester zoo reply to anyone!

Shutterstock is obviously the place to go for images of chester zoos animals, but you have to pay for them!

 

[chip]

They are probably bought by those less frequent visitors or visiting for the first time,
It does take a bit of experience and a few visits to recognise your Boris from your Nicky, so those buying for a mivering 6 year old who want a picture of the Chimp that slammed into the window wouldnt really know or care it wasnt the "real" CZ animal.

And thats not exclusive to Chester, every collection i been to has "stock" pics for sale in their shops.

If its a couple of quid for a tiger pic and a tenner for an official Fabi pic, who do you think the parents of the mivering 6 year old would buy ??

Last month i replaced my broken Boris keyring.............at Knowsley ....??

I agree, but some of the pics they sell are not cheap and definitely not good either!

My point was they good have had decent images of the animals from the zoo at the same price......................................

 

[chip]

Yes I've seen your "Chester Zoo Pics" website - I think your images are fine but in truth no better than any others I've seen the zoo use - just because you take the time to get them 'professionally mounted' doesn't make them better or warrant the 'chip' on your shoulder that you appear to have.
Some of the staff's "snaps" as you so patronisingly put it are bloody good and anyone who's been a photographer for any length of time will admit that once the equipment is taken out of the equation it's often a case of being in the right place at the right time to get a stand out image.

Anyone can pay to get their images mounted or framed and in fact I'd hazard a guess that's what any retail outlet can do and normally at a bulk price if they are selling them on.

The images we offered to the zoo where taken by a collection of photographers, amature and professional alike.

Mounted on acrylic, aluminium, mdf, canvas etc etc. All done "in house"
they would appeal to the more discerning buyer.

I dont think you have seen them.

They are a big improvement on the "tat" offered in the zoo shop at inflated prices.

Maybe you should ask the zoo to market your images then?


ps

no chip on my shoulder....................

 

[bluetoffeezoo]

No, quite simply because we where submitting a selection of images at that stage.

We found Chester Zoo`s lack of interest puzzling, to say the least.

It is the Zoos loss, not ours!

but if you didn't quote prices maybe what you sent looked like it would be expensive, the prints the zoo sells are relatively cheap?

 

[chip]

but if you didn't quote prices maybe what you sent looked like it would be expensive, the prints the zoo sells are relatively cheap?

Well if someone sent me stuff to look at and I was in charge of buying stuff,the first thing I would ask is how much?

Maybe they where too busy!

 

[Mr T]

Well if someone sent me stuff to look at and I was in charge of buying stuff,the first thing I would ask is how much?

Maybe they where too busy!

If I was a buyer and was sent a load of stuff to look at the first think I would want to know is how much it is going to cost me. You did not supply this information (which I think is rather unprofessional) so the person in charge of this department probably thought ' well this lot can't be very organised, they haven't even told us how much it is going to cost us' and threw them in the 'no thanks' pile.

You seem to think you are the only person sending in photos for the zoo to look at. I am pretty sure there are loads of people submitting photos to the zoo and of an similar if not better quality than yours (in my opinion).

 

[chip]

If I was a buyer and was sent a load of stuff to look at the first think I would want to know is how much it is going to cost me. You did not supply this information (which I think is rather unprofessional) so the person in charge of this department probably thought ' well this lot can't be very organised, they haven't even told us how much it is going to cost us' and threw them in the 'no thanks' pile.

You seem to think you are the only person sending in photos for the zoo to look at. I am pretty sure there are loads of people submitting photos to the zoo and of an similar if not better quality than yours (in my opinion).

Good morning Mr T, you seem to be concerned, so I will answer your points.

Well the buyer is entitled to their opinion.....[looking at the pics for sale in the shop they are doing a great job,ha ha]

Unless you work in that department in the zoo, you havent seen the images sent to them, so its not possible for you to remark on the quality of them, nor where you privy to the conversations that went on prior to submitting the samples.
We submitted a selection of finished prints in various formats, with the intention of donating all the profit to the Zoo.As already stated, its the zoo`s loss not ours.

Where did I suggest I was the only person submitting photos?

You have somehow interpreted this into something very different,[in your opinion!]

 

[OrangePerson]

Can we have a separate 'arguing about the photos' thread, I keep thinking there's some actual Chester news!

 

[Chlidonias]

Can we have a separate 'arguing about the photos' thread, I keep thinking there's some actual Chester news!

exactly! There's almost two pages now of "boo hoo Chester Zoo wouldn't buy my photos so I'm going to complain about it on here ad nauseum".

Get over it and move on chip.

 

[adrian1963]

exactly! There's almost two pages now of "boo hoo Chester Zoo wouldn't buy my photos so I'm going to complain about it on here ad nauseum".

Get over it and move on chip.

I don't really see the boo vhoo part of this Chip was only making us aware of what happened and yet again the Chester Zoo defenders (we all defend our favourite zoo no matter what other people say) jumped on Chips back.
I must admit on the E-Mail point I tend to get more information through the P/M on here then from Chester Zoo, 27 E-mail's sent in just over 2 years and still not one reply says it all really.

EDIT - I have also had problems with e-mails sent to Dudley Zoo 9 sent in 12 months and still not one reply from my Favourite zoo so this happens at other zoo's and not just Chester
I was just pointing out that it's not just Chip who has had this problem

 

[karoocheetah]

I don't really see the boo vhoo part of this Chip was only making us aware of what happened and yet again the Chester Zoo defenders (we all defend our favourite zoo no matter what other people say) jumped on Chips back.
I must admit on the E-Mail point I tend to get more information through the P/M on here then from Chester Zoo, 27 E-mail's sent in just over 2 years and still not one reply says it all really.

Again - I disagree, I'll defend anyone if I think they are being wrongly represented but at the end of the day it's just my opinion against someone elses - I still don't think the images the new shop sells are tat, I agree that I'd rather see images of the animals from the zoo rather than any random animal but again a shop will go with what the masses want in the end. My 'beef' with Chip was that I thought his attitude and opinions were patronising and condecending and the tone came across exactly as Childonas stated for me anyway. I can't speak for anyone else but I personally won't "stick up for Chester" just because it's my local and I think it can do no wrong, that's just immature, if I don't agree with something I'll say so and vice versa.