So it was 100%, thanks for the clarification.
Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2012 #2
- Thread starter adrian1963
- Start date
So it was 100%, thanks for the clarification.
Sorry to disagree, but I don't think this was the case.
The 2009 accounts show an EMDA grant received of just short of £2.3m. The 2009 and 2010 accounts show "assets constructed" of over £10m. Whilst some of this may have been finishing off "Pets Corner" and the Elephant Trail and other smaller projects I'd imagine the majority was re the "Entrance Complex" (that's polite for me).
Nevertheless I completely agree the grant would have had a constricting effect on plans (EMDA don't do "zoo grants") and meant the building was distorted to become/include a conference centre (for the local community, apparently), tourist gateway and (possibly, I'm not certain) art gallery.
The really big question is, "couldn't the £7.7m+ (total spend less grant) been better spent?" I think I can guess the concensus on that
.wild watch
Member
"As somebody that has seen how this zoo is run from the inside,before the TZA were kicked out of the zoo,all I'm going to say is only one person need's to be removed from the zoo for things to change for the better! "
my apologies to zoogiraffe, the author of the above - I have no idea how to cut and paste a quote!!! I'm impressed with how much knowledge is out there- I must be moving in the wrong circles! Unfortunately i'm cluless as 2 who needs 2 go. but lets not go near any risk of libel allegations!!!I have often wondered re the himalaya "gateway", doesn't the position of the main entrance put a limit future development areas?. From my simple layperson viewpoint, for a zoo whose hype was initially that it would challenge even london zoo, it's still thinking "adequate". The elephant enclosure- nice if the grass area was open to the girls, but Ive never seen it open (after almost a year of bi weekly visits!). While demolition continues apace for "chimp choice" - an enclosure along the lines of monkey world i'm told, the gorillas and orangs are way down the list for new homes. And for any one who thinks their present cages are fine,I have to strongly disagree!!! I want you to imagine your life spent in that space, day in day out.These great apes have a high level of intelligence, self awareness etc. ARGH! it should be so much BETTER!!!! I have no doubt the keepers hard work, loyalty and love for their charges is 90% of the reason that zoo is still open. Thinking about my many visits then led me 2 wonder in general, what impact the europe wide recession is having on zoo life, breeding programmes, future plans etc. Also- in general- is it right to support a zoo in the hopes it improves, Where do we stand on zoo tourism? for example- Is it ok to financially support a country with poor human/animal rights agenda by visiting zoo's, etc there?Or is it an effective force for change? Have we all seen the u tubes of Chinese zoos? (Live animal feeding as a fund raiser?) Anyone any views on the worldwide ethics of zoo? (Is that 2 big a subject for us?)
my apologies to zoogiraffe, the author of the above - I have no idea how to cut and paste a quote!!! I'm impressed with how much knowledge is out there- I must be moving in the wrong circles! Unfortunately i'm cluless as 2 who needs 2 go. but lets not go near any risk of libel allegations!!!I have often wondered re the himalaya "gateway", doesn't the position of the main entrance put a limit future development areas?. From my simple layperson viewpoint, for a zoo whose hype was initially that it would challenge even london zoo, it's still thinking "adequate". The elephant enclosure- nice if the grass area was open to the girls, but Ive never seen it open (after almost a year of bi weekly visits!). While demolition continues apace for "chimp choice" - an enclosure along the lines of monkey world i'm told, the gorillas and orangs are way down the list for new homes. And for any one who thinks their present cages are fine,I have to strongly disagree!!! I want you to imagine your life spent in that space, day in day out.These great apes have a high level of intelligence, self awareness etc. ARGH! it should be so much BETTER!!!! I have no doubt the keepers hard work, loyalty and love for their charges is 90% of the reason that zoo is still open. Thinking about my many visits then led me 2 wonder in general, what impact the europe wide recession is having on zoo life, breeding programmes, future plans etc. Also- in general- is it right to support a zoo in the hopes it improves, Where do we stand on zoo tourism? for example- Is it ok to financially support a country with poor human/animal rights agenda by visiting zoo's, etc there?Or is it an effective force for change? Have we all seen the u tubes of Chinese zoos? (Live animal feeding as a fund raiser?) Anyone any views on the worldwide ethics of zoo? (Is that 2 big a subject for us?)
I think if you want to ponder this, and it is undoubtedly interesting, you should start a new thread. Not too big a subject for Zoochat but not appropriate for the Twycross thread.
1. Quotes- just press the 'Quote' button on the relevant post, delete everything in the post you don't want to quote, make sure what's left has a Quote in square brackets at either end. Then post your own message underneath. It usually works...
2. Do you know exactly where the new Chimpanzee enclosure is now planned to go, if/when it finally gets off the ground? Is it now the lawn area beween Giraffe & Sealions?
3. I agree that the Orangutans equally badly need new housing too, if not more so. The Gorillas- I think the last Gorilla House is adequate for the small group they currently have- for the number of animals(1.2) they probably have as much/more space than some Gorillas at e.g. Howletts. It could be much improved by heavy planting/more landscaping outside though. The Gorillas(apart from Boulas and Biddy which is temporary) are the Apes there I think least need new housing really, unless they suddenly had a bigger group.
4. 'Worldwide ethics'- really a subject for the General Forum if you want to start a thread.
"Chimp choice" sounds as though it should be based on Edinburgh!
With the various 'pods' they can go in?
If its to be based on Monkey World's chimp enclosures (from memory) they have large open grassy enclosures with mounds, climbing frames, rocks, pipes to go in etc- that sounds more like Twycross-style to me. I hope they can do a bit better than MW's inside chimp areas though, they are pretty basic.
With the various 'pods' they can go in?
Yes, they offer a real variety of environment.
At least at Monkey World they can choose to disappear which is not a choice most of the Twycross chimps currently have.
Jordan-Jaguar97
Well-Known Member
Let's be fair though, if the Chimps could speak I think every single Chimp in the UK excluding Chester and Edinburgh would want an exhibit like Edinburgh's. I would rate Edinburgh's 'Budongo trail' one of the best Chimp exhibit's I have seen and heard of.
mazfc
Well-Known Member
All of the chimp enclosures at twycross off show areas now that the chimps have free access to. This is a new thing brought in this year, and not before time.
I wonder if finances have caused a change of plan in the design of the new chimp area. A few keepers I spoke to last year all spoke of a Budongo style enclosure, but Monkeyworld style enclosures would be cheaper whilst still improving their living environment.
Probably so. A Budongo-style enclosure would obviously cost a helluva lot more than a Monkey World-style enclosure so I can see why the latter is more likely- but as MW have shown, theirs are perfectly suitable for big chimp groups. The all important thing being to have them in as large an amalgamated group as is possible. I would be surprised at the end of the day if, given a sufficiently large area and a prolonged and careful programme of integration as at Edinburgh, any of Twycross' chimps prove to be completely incompatable with the others, despite their backgrounds etc, but time will show.
I've always been rather intrugued by all this;
'Conference centre for local community' -there isn't really one apart from a Village as Twycross Zoo is pretty much in the middle of nowhere..
'Tourist Gateway'- gateway to where exactly?
'Art Gallery'-again a strange location given the clientelle are usually urban-based/orientated and certainly not your average Twycross 'day-out' visitor.
I've always been rather intrugued by all this;
'Conference centre for local community' -there isn't really one apart from a Village as Twycross Zoo is pretty much in the middle of nowhere..
'Tourist Gateway'- gateway to where exactly?
'Art Gallery'-again a strange location given the clientelle are usually urban-based/orientated and certainly not your average Twycross 'day-out' visitor.
What surprised me when I first experienced Himalaya was that I was expecting to see the cashiers taking the admissions sitting at large desks similar to what Edinburgh have at their entrance, but no, they are still in little kiosks outside, strange.
Agree that is peculiar. Particularly as the catering and shop facilities in Himalaya are all Zoo-related, so why not have the admissions section in there too?
That whole entry complex is a missed opportunity and cost way too much.
I cannot phantom how 10 mln just evaporated ...
Priorities:
1) South American primate islands and walk through small callichtrids house.
2) Gibbonaria, Orang Utan Rainforest and S.E. leaf eating monkey area.
3) Central Congo basin primate area and colobus, mangabey and Cercopithecinae islands. Bonobo Experience.
The other much talked about Great Apes do not feature to highly
on my list.
4) The Asian Carnivore area
5) Elephant Bull Stalls and opening up the grassy yards to the elephant herd(s) ... multiple yards.
6) Asian hoofstock in the same general location as 4) and 5) so it will amalgamate into one Zone.
7) Given peoples' tastes in zoo day outs of giraffe, rhino et al ... a full African savannah experience.
8) South American Zone with both small carnivores (bush dog, maned wolf, tayra, coati) and capybary, Darwin's rhea ... giant anteater.
Overall more naturalistic exhibitry ... and less concrete.
Perhaps too much wishful thinking?
I cannot phantom how 10 mln just evaporated ...
Priorities:
1) South American primate islands and walk through small callichtrids house.
2) Gibbonaria, Orang Utan Rainforest and S.E. leaf eating monkey area.
3) Central Congo basin primate area and colobus, mangabey and Cercopithecinae islands. Bonobo Experience.
The other much talked about Great Apes do not feature to highly
on my list.
4) The Asian Carnivore area
5) Elephant Bull Stalls and opening up the grassy yards to the elephant herd(s) ... multiple yards.
6) Asian hoofstock in the same general location as 4) and 5) so it will amalgamate into one Zone.
7) Given peoples' tastes in zoo day outs of giraffe, rhino et al ... a full African savannah experience.
8) South American Zone with both small carnivores (bush dog, maned wolf, tayra, coati) and capybary, Darwin's rhea ... giant anteater.
Overall more naturalistic exhibitry ... and less concrete.
Perhaps too much wishful thinking?
Himalaya,architecture of coarse can be very much to personal taste, some like it, which I respect, I myself do not, Much preferred to dine in the old cafe, or better still sitting outside of on a nice day on the terrace, I know it was getting on a bit but the Gorilla Outpost Cafeteria was only built eight years ago, surely this building could have been used to offer a comprehensive menu and this building used to its full potential. I cannot fault the old gift shop, it was adequate and served its purpose, also there was a second gift shop next to Norton Grange, now offices, which was utilised at peak periods,I also recall when we were discussing the last set of published accounts of this zoo that this new complex actually made LESS profit in its first year of trading than the previous facilities. I would think the set up in the gift shop area is tailor made for gunnifs (thieves/shoplifters), perhaps this is one of the reasons why it made less than the old brick built one, I do not like those dreadful multi coloured plastic seats in the cafe area, and I do not like "using the facilities" in full view of a full clear plate glass window looking out onto an aviary!
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
The Gorilla Outpost Cafeteria,would need a major overhaul of the electrics if it was to be used,for any more advanced type of catering than it is used for now!
Well of coarse that won't be necessary now as we have the new cafe at Himalaya, if time and money had been spent on improving living conditions for the chimps for starters instead of all this grandiose/expensive development then I would have been happier, and I'm sure the chimps would feel the same.
I know how frustrating the whole Twycross thing is......., there are a multitude of layered problems but it will do no good to anyone constantly looking at past mistakes and blaming everyone all the time. Would it be a good idea to create a 'Twycross for the Future' thread where no references to past mistakes can be made? I grew up a few miles from this zoo and so it's like a second home in many ways, however, having now visited Zoos all over the world and making my family home near Living Coasts & Paignton, I can see how flat, un-inspiring and dull Twycross really is - but it has a place, a role and should have a future - to educate many kids from some very poor wards in Midlands. We should attempt to use our experience and knowledge to help them, encourage and positively lobby for change - hell, we (Zoochatters) could all arrange to meet and offer our time to paint a new enclosure or plant an existing one - come on, the past is gone!