Chester Zoo Chester Zoo updates *3

Shorts said:
I don't think they're any privately held anthropoid apes in the UK therefore I struggle to imagine anywhere has the facilities to house a group of them.
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I know of none either. There are no definately Orangutans or Gorillas in the most recent Studbooks shown as being held privately anywhere in the UK.

The last privately-owned Orangutan I know of was Dagu who ended up at Jersey, and that was years ago now.
 
Pertinax said:
I know of none either. There are no definately Orangutans or Gorillas in the most recent Studbooks shown as being held privately anywhere in the UK.
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Would the studbook know about them (unless they were kept illegally) even if they were just kept as private 'possessions'? I don't understand this process.
 
I think its highly unlikely that the Studbook Co-ordinators(or other Zoos) would not know about them as nowadays they would most likely have to have come from a Zoo in the first place. If they were illegally imported/smuggled then that's a whole other kettle of fish but I have certainly never heard of any Orangutans or Gorillas being kept in private hands in the UK in the last decade or two and I would be very surprised if such could be kept secret from the Zoo fraternity or EEP co-ordinators.

'Dagu' the Sumatran male who went to Jersey, was born in a Zoo in Europe and his various moves before he went to Jersey including his several years in private ownership are recorded, so he was definately known about and he was certainly the only privately-owned Orangutan in the UK during that period.
 
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Pertinax said:
If you ever see the EEP 'Recommended moves' sheet for any particular year e.g. for Orangutans or Gorillas, its simply a list with data for each animal being considered and simple notes such as ' xxx should move to(place) yyy, while www could be transferred to (place) zzz' or place x needs a new male following death of q. etc.

They do seem more like suggestions than directives and rather hypothetical. It seems to require agreement both between the Zoos concerned and the EEP co-ordinators before there is any real hope of a move happening and so for various reasons, only a percentage of these moves actually take place. It has always been like that.;)
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So, if I ran a zoo and wanted, for instance, a new male orangutan, exactly what procedure would I follow? Inform the co-ordinator who would put my current male on the list and check if there were any suitable males for my zoo already on the list? Would I then have to negotiate with the zoos concerned or is this the role of the co-ordinator? I know a lot of paperwork is involved once a move is agreed if the orangutan has to pass through several countries to get to its new home. It all sounds very complicated and long-winded and maybe not in the best interests of orangutans like Kevin.

I sincerely hope there are no orangutans or gorillas being held privately in the UK:eek:
 
Gigit said:
Would I then have to negotiate with the zoos concerned or is this the role of the co-ordinator?

I sincerely hope there are no orangutans or gorillas being held privately in the UK:eek:
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As far as I can see from the 'style' of these recommendations, its up to the Co-ordinator largely to decide who goes where, or at least to make the suggestions. I think the Zoos inform him/her of their wanted or surplus requirements.

I would be very surprised to find out there are any.;)
 
Gigit said:
It all sounds very complicated and long-winded and maybe not in the best interests of orangutans like Kevin.
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I think that unfortunately for Kevin's interests male orangutans are not a precious zoo commodity because there is a surplus, male orangutans with problems even less popular. It is one of the things about zoos that make me uneasy, that where you have a species where multiple males can't live together (unlike chimps) or that don't pair-bond (unlike gibbons) males become surplus. Everyone wants to breed cute babies, not so keen when they grow into big less-cute adults.

If Chester took Kevin, in addition to the fertile but not without 'issues' Tuan I would be thrilled and impressed!
 
Cape hyrax birth

bongorob, zoogiraffe and I were among the first visitors to the hunting dog end of the zoo today (21st July). We saw two baby hyrax with the adults, which the keepers did not know about. Later in the day we saw four (the other two may have been hiding out of sight when we looked first).
They seemed well developed and were moving and feeding confidently.
​

Alan
 
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gentle lemur said:
bongorob, zoogiraffe and I were among the first visitors to the hunting dog end of the zoo today (21st July). We saw two baby hyrax with the adults, which the keepers did not know about. Later in the day we saw four (the other two may have been hiding out of sight when we looked first).
They seemed well developed and were moving and feeding confidently.
​

Alan
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That's great news Alan! you lucky devil you :D
 
OrangePerson said:
If Chester took Kevin, in addition to the fertile but not without 'issues' Tuan I would be thrilled and impressed!
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I seem to remember in the 1960/70's era one or two European zoos with large collections of Orangutans routinely kept more than one fully adult 'padded' male at the same time. The German name for this mature stage in a male is 'Backenwulster' - we have no equivalent term.

Then London had 'Dodo' and 'Saleh' both as mature males in the 1980's, though one of them(Saleh) was kept in the old Tecton Gorilla House so they weren't anywhere near each other. Chester certainly do have the space inside their old Ape House, though outdoor areas may be more at a premium.
 
I hope he does get a good home before too long! Maybe one of Adrian1963s private collections could do the decent thing and give a very deserving animal a home!
 
Equally important 'Kevin' is still not genetically represented in the population, though he can breed/has bred in the past I think, and it appears his deformities are not genetic but caused by poor housing, so would not be passed on.
 
OrangePerson said:
I hope he does get a good home before too long! Maybe one of Adrian1963s private collections could do the decent thing and give a very deserving animal a home!
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Well I'm aware of well over 50 private collections in the UK that hold a DWAL,but I'm not aware of any of these having the facilities,to house any of the Great Apes,Large Cats and some of the other large primates yes they could,but certainly none of the ones I know of could hold an Orang.
 
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Monkey World

When Kevin was confiscated from a circus with appaling conditions, the zoo (with another director) vowed: Now he will have a home forever.
New director- new interests: Kevin lost the habitat he was used to.
When zoo-visitors asked Monkey World, did they have ever considered to take Kevin, as the Zoo had claimed, they had never heard of him.
However, Monkey World offered to take him, if they were supported by the zoo with money for a new enclosure.
Apparently Kevin is worth neither money (be it for Chester or Monkey World), nor a trial to find an adequate enclosure within Berlin Zoo or Tierpark.
 
Taisha said:
When Kevin was confiscated from a circus with appaling conditions, the zoo (with another director) vowed: Now he will have a home forever.
New director- new interests: Kevin lost the habitat he was used to.
When zoo-visitors asked Monkey World, did they have ever considered to take Kevin, as the Zoo had claimed, they had never heard of him.
However, Monkey World offered to take him, if they were supported by the zoo with money for a new enclosure.
Apparently Kevin is worth neither money (be it for Chester or Monkey World), nor a trial to find an adequate enclosure within Berlin Zoo or Tierpark.
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It's very sad, the new director should have honoured old commitments, I'm sure they got publicity and kudos for 'rescuing' him at the time. It's great to take them in in a blaze of glory, unfortunately, 'forever' is a long time for an ape.
 
Taisha said:
When Kevin was confiscated from a circus with appaling conditions, the zoo (with another director) vowed: Now he will have a home forever.
New director- new interests: Kevin lost the habitat he was used to.
When zoo-visitors asked Monkey World, did they have ever considered to take Kevin, as the Zoo had claimed, they had never heard of him.
However, Monkey World offered to take him, if they were supported by the zoo with money for a new enclosure.
Apparently Kevin is worth neither money (be it for Chester or Monkey World), nor a trial to find an adequate enclosure within Berlin Zoo or Tierpark.
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Errrrr, come again .... MW would take him if Zoo Berlin would foot the bill for a new enclosure???! This is not only not the method and means by which zoos operate (breeding) loans under EEP's, secondly the receiving zoo should also be prepared to foot the bill of transport.

As per your wording it seems ... we (=MW) are not prepared to take him unless you pay the entire "circus"? The entire essence of an EEP is that there are no quid pro quos involved ... and this one seems a major one. :rolleyes:
 
Monkey World would not be taking him as part of the EEP, they would be taking him as a 'rescue'. He is clearly an unwanted animal and anyone who takes him is doing Berlin a favour by taking an animal that they promised a lifelong home to and now don't fancy fulfilling the promise after all!

Monkey World already have 2 breeding groups and 2 growing males and so would have to build separate accommodation for Kevin.
 
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