Chester Zoo Chester Zoo updates *3

OrangePerson said:
Monkey World already have 2 breeding groups and 2 growing males and so would have to build separate accommodation for Kevin.
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That is correct. So I can understand them asking for funds to build an enclosure especially as Berlin must be a wealthy Zoo- though splitting the cost might seem fairer overall. It would seem an obvious place for him to go as they could provide him with a partner for breeding etc and though they would have to explain his condition to the visitors that's fair enough being as they are a 'rescue' organisation.

I imagine no other Zoo will take Kevin as an exhibit, so Berlin might just end up euthanasing him eventually if they can't rehome him as he is clearly just a nuisance animal to them.
 
The more I read here the more disturbing this whole case becomes. Bear in mind that I knew nothing about Kevin or his plight until thia thread kicked off.

As has been said here - if Berlin 'rescued' Kevin then they indeed have made a commitment to his future welfare and that is undeniable.
Trying to move him on for whatever reason (be it financial or husbandry) is fine as long as the Orangs best interests are considered along the way.
Could someone enlighten me as to what his 'problems' are that he can't be put on show in any zoo? or have I misread what has been said.

Either way someone is going to have to pay to rehome and transport - never mind comiitting to his future welfare which is no short term consideration, that initially should be Berlin - they are breaching the comittment they made to his welfare when they took him on so for me the onus is on them at least morally to get this sorted and soon. This case is all the more emotive as a great ape is involved and that 'Shared DNA Link' makes great newspaper headlines!!
C'mon Berlin - live up to the reputation you have and make sure this is handled well for all parties!!
 
karoocheetah said:
Could someone enlighten me as to what his 'problems' are that he can't be put on show in any zoo? or have I misread what has been said.
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I have not seen 'Kevin' so cannot report firsthand but he believe that he has bad/deformed legs from his previous early housing so he cannot walk properly. I imagine he moves on the ground by shuffling or swinging his arms as crutches which is what apes usually do in such a situation. But he can probably still climb and move about if given proper space to do so.

Any Zoo putting him on exhibit might well face critisism of this situation if it is fairly extreme, though if it is not that bad, most people would probably be none the wiser. Whichever way, apart from the need to provide him better housing, he is also wildcaught and could contribute to the genetic benefit of the population as though he has bred before, he has no offspring. So I imagine the EEP would like to see him given the chance to breed if at all possible, which is why there has been rumour of him moving to e.g. Chester in the past, but nowhere has taken him. It would still be important on both welfare and breeding counts to find a better outcome for him. Monkeyworld would seem one obvious solution but there are the problems as outlined above. In the meantime he stays where he is because the situation hasn't been resolved.
 
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Pertinax said:
That is correct. So I can understand them asking for funds to build an enclosure especially as Berlin must be a wealthy Zoo- though splitting the cost might seem fairer overall. It would seem an obvious place for him to go as they could provide him with a partner for breeding etc and though they would have to explain his condition to the visitors that's fair enough being as they are a 'rescue' organisation.

I imagine no other Zoo will take Kevin as an exhibit, so Berlin might just end up euthanasing him eventually if they can't rehome him as he is clearly just a nuisance animal to them.
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Berlin Zoo is not a wealthy zoo, nor particularly profitable given the number of species in the collection to be managed. It has to renovate or built new accommodations for quite a few species out of its own coffers. Subvention by the Municipality has been reduced to next to nothing.

Hence, the onus here on commitment and funds ex Berlin for any other zoo to build them is both unfair and unrealistic. To have to built and fund any accomodation elsewhere seems even less of a commitment by the receiving zoo (and to then advertise it as a rescue is simply perverse).

I stand by everything I have said on the issue.
(and as far as I am concerned end of participation in this discussion)
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
To have to built and fund any accomodation elsewhere seems even less of a commitment by the receiving zoo (and to then advertise it as a rescue is simply perverse).
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It is not the first time Monkeyworld have made that sort of proviso- they publicly offered to take Southport's two male Chimpanzees to give them a home, but its been reported on here that privately there were other financial 'terms and conditions' attatched. That move didn't happen.
 
Still Kevin

Pertinax said:
I imagine no other Zoo will take Kevin as an exhibit, so Berlin might just end up euthanasing him eventually if they can't rehome him as he is clearly just a nuisance animal to them.
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Kevin has dedicated keepers, I hope they would be able to prevent any such attack on him.

As I knew Kevin (4 years ago) before he was taken from public viewing, he is an easygoing, cuddly orang who lived a fairly happy life until his female compainon suddenly died of cancer. You would observe only a slight limping, probably due to his years in a tiny cage, which he had to share with a chimpanzee, who used to threaten him.
He is quite attached to humans.

Concerning Monkey World: As there had been no negotiations before, I think it was very kind of them to offer shelter for him, and surely they should have been supported financially, if they would have to build a new enclosure for him.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Berlin Zoo is not a wealthy zoo, nor particularly profitable given the number of species in the collection to be managed. It has to renovate or built new accommodations for quite a few species out of its own coffers. Subvention by the Municipality has been reduced to next to nothing.

Hence, the onus here on commitment and funds ex Berlin for any other zoo to build them is both unfair and unrealistic. To have to built and fund any accomodation elsewhere seems even less of a commitment by the receiving zoo (and to then advertise it as a rescue is simply perverse).

I stand by everything I have said on the issue.
(and as far as I am concerned end of participation in this discussion)
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I'm sorry this is on the Chester thread as they are in no way responsible in this matter.

The onus was on Berlin to make adequate provision for Kevin before they did whatever they did to make him homeless.

Zoos should not expect others to mop up after they take what animals suits their purpose and want to ditch the rest.

Not only would somewhere eg Monkey World have to build him special individual accommodation as an adult male orangutan accommodation they would be taking on his medical and everyday care for many, many years, why should anyone but Berlin (in this case) be expected to simply pick up the bill. This is exactly why I think there should be some sort of ABTA style insurance for zoos to care for animals which through no fault of their own become 'surplus' or homeless.

No one, it appears, WANTS poor Kevin, anywhere that takes him are doing it for his benefit.

Sorry Kevin, you don't deserve this!
 
Can one of the Mods please move thie discussion about Kevin to another place as it doesn't belong,on a Chester news section any more,as he's not at or going to Chester at the moment!!
 
Berlin rescued Kevin, received suitable kudos and publicity for doing so. Their current financial situation is not relevant to their commitment to taking care of him. If they want him rehomed and this cannot be done as part of the breeding pgm then they have a duty of care to fund his move, or a duty of care to provide him with a decent home themselves. It's a no brainer for me.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Any more on the way there?

What has the breeding success been in the Chilean group? :confused:
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If you mean this year it is too early for Chilean chicks.

History of flamingo breeding at Chester

CHILEAN FLAMINGO Phoenicopterus chilensis

1990 1
1991 5(2)
1992 2
1993 1
1994 7(1)
1995 6(1)
1996 5(1)
1997 4(3)
1998 8(1)
1999 4(2)
2000 12(4)
2001 7(3)
2002 9(1)
2003 13(7)
2004 10(3)
2006 15(3)
2007 19(5)
2008 18(8)
2009 15(5)
2010 15(5)

total 176(55)

CARIBBEAN FLAMINGO Phoenicopterus ruber ruber

1988 3(1)
1989 3(1)
1990 3
1992 5
1993 7(1)
1994 6
1995 4
1996 7
1997 (2)
1998 2
1999 9(1)
2000 6(1)
2001 5
2002 7
2003 8(1)
2004 1
2005 7
2006 4(1)
2007 11(2)
2009 9(1)
2010 13
2011 15

toal 191(12)

CARIBBEAN x CHILEAN FLAMINGO
1987 1
1988 0.1

total 0.1.1
 
Orangutan Kevin.

Taisha said:
You would observe only a slight limping, probably due to his years in a tiny cage, which he had to share with a chimpanzee, who used to threaten him.
He is quite attached to humans.
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In that case I can't see why he isn't just included in the EEP moves and found a breeding opportunity in another Zoo in due course.

As some people don't think this discussion belongs here- though there is a Chester connection to it in so much as it was rumoured he might go there, it would perhaps be better continued in the Berlin thread(his current home) if anyone wants to take it further.
 
OrangePerson said:
I'm sorry this is on the Chester thread as they are in no way responsible in this matter.
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It appeared onto this thread because Chester is/was rumoured to be a possible recipient of this animal. It has never been suggested he is in any way Chester's responsibility if they did not/are not taking him for whatever reason.

Any further discussion on this animal should probably now be on the Berlin thread his current home, but I have left all the above posts as they stand.
 
The zoo's Facebook page is teasing readers with 'who would like to see pics of the zoo's newest babies?' I am guessing the pictures (when uploaded) will be of the flamingos.
 
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