Franklin Zoo (Closed) Elephant Kills Woman at Franklin Zoo

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kiwipo said:
I can't see why the elephant needs training to get into a crate when she spent most of her life being transported around in a trailer.
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Tony Ratcliffe recently saw Jumbo for the first time in a couple of years.

She reacted very positively to him.

However, he said that she has been spoilt over the past two years and it will take a couple of months or so to steady her again and condition her to the crate.

That's a lot less than the twelve months minimum [with options for an extension of time] that FZ is offering in their job description.
 
Well its up to you lot over there to lobby the Government and FZ to co-ordinate the move asap.

I would assume its a done deal at last that TR & Co are the right people to assist with this epic last journey for beloved Jumbo.

Lets hope its all allowed to happen with dignity for the sake of Helens memory, Jumbos future happiness and Tony Ratcliffes peace of mind.
 
chip said:
Well its up to you lot over there to lobby the Government and FZ to co-ordinate the move asap.

I would assume its a done deal at last that TR & Co are the right people to assist with this epic last journey for beloved Jumbo.

Lets hope its all allowed to happen with dignity for the sake of Helens memory, Jumbos future happiness and Tony Ratcliffes peace of mind.
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Nothing is a done deal by any stretch of the imagination.

These 464 posts have been by people who have the elephant's welfare at heart [or who want to take potshots at Tony Ratcliffe!]. Not one of these posters is a decision maker as far as Jumbo's fate is concerned.
 
It is good to think that we have all come to the same conclusion , Tony would ensure a smooth transition for Jumbo into the sanctuary , and i feel it would be easier for the SANCTUARY to integrate jumbo with other elephants with him around . The every one including Franklin Zoo can say Helens dream was realised in her memory .
 
Steve Robinson said:
The cost of the airfreight has been donated by the same gentleman who paid for the building of Jumbo's enclosure at FZ.

The cost of the crate will be borne by the Ratcliffes if they get the job of conditioning and moving her.

As recently as this week I was informed that Jenny Chung has raised $300,000 from the public for Jumbo's move to PAWS.

It would be interesting to see where that money has been/will be spent.
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I said this before and was accused of being cynical, rightly so too.

It looks more and more like the money Jenny Chung wants will be paying her fee for administrating this move. What else would it have to be used for if the most expensive items are being donated.
 
kiwipo said:
I said this before and was accused of being cynical, rightly so too.

It looks more and more like the money Jenny Chung wants will be paying her fee for administrating this move. What else would it have to be used for if the most expensive items are being donated.
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Who cares..

If thats the price to be paid to make it all happen asap then I would send her some money as well.
 
chip said:
Who cares..

If thats the price to be paid to make it all happen asap then I would send her some money as well.
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You can do that right now if you want.

I'd happily donate money to mover her too, but I am not going to give the money to someone who won't prove what it is to be used for.

And it seems no matter how much in the way of good and services is donated, the price doesn't come down.
 
Some one on here said they were interested in obtaining a copy of Tonys book THE ELEPHANTMAN , it is available through him for $NZ40 PLUS POSTAGE , just email him for details of payement etc, at .... circusmemories@gmail.com he said he will mail it within 1 day of receiving payment .
 
kiwipo said:
And it seems no matter how much in the way of good and services is donated, the price doesn't come down.
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See today's Franklin newspaper - more money needed!!!

You can join a walk-a-thon to raise more money for the poor elephant. One school has just donated $1100.

She's not an elephant, she's a cash cow.
 
i have just had tony phone me and tell me that chung is interviewing a lady from the states to come as elephant manager , how useless can that women be , wanting a hard elephant to managed by a women , this takes a man to do the job that understands the elephant they are dealing with , is another fatality going to happen ? this elephant will not suffer fools lightly , for god sake get the man on board that knows what to do , TONY told me tonite he doesnt want to be involved with outsiders involved , fair comment
 
What i cannot understand why does Jenny need so much money to relocate Jumbo if she already has a sponsor for the airfreight , even if Tony is not involved it should not cost more than $100,000 to crate and Vet test Jumbo , looking at the entire project looks like a very crooked deal , that should be bought out in the open to the people of New Zealand , how many people have donated their hard earned money in good faith ? I do feel sorry for jumbo having to endure a bunch of wallys bullying her into a crate , I hope that for her sake she does not kill another fool .
 
frankwilliam said:
What i cannot understand why does Jenny need so much money to relocate Jumbo if she already has a sponsor for the airfreight , even if Tony is not involved it should not cost more than $100,000 to crate and Vet test Jumbo , looking at the entire project looks like a very crooked deal , that should be bought out in the open to the people of New Zealand , how many people have donated their hard earned money in good faith ? I do feel sorry for jumbo having to endure a bunch of wallys bullying her into a crate , I hope that for her sake she does not kill another fool .
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There area lot of us thinking that. Until the media come out and ask the hard questions and print the truth the general public will go on thinking she needs more money and cares for the elephant.

What are the NZ media doing, just printing what she tells them.
 
frankwilliam said:
i have just had tony phone me and tell me that chung is interviewing a lady from the states to come as elephant manager , how useless can that women be , wanting a hard elephant to managed by a women , this takes a man to do the job that understands the elephant they are dealing with , is another fatality going to happen ? this elephant will not suffer fools lightly , for god sake get the man on board that knows what to do , TONY told me tonite he doesnt want to be involved with outsiders involved , fair comment
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I have no idea if what you write here is true and if you are really in contact with Tony Ratcliffe, but if it is, it just proves that neither you NOR Tony R. have ANY IDEA about modern elephant management according to protected contact principles. And then I am incredibly relieved that neither of you have any part in Mila/Jumbo`s care.
 
frankwilliam said:
chung is interviewing a lady from the states to come as elephant manager ,
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If this is correct, then the sisterhood have taken over completely.

Those of you who have been aware of the underlying motive beneath this grubby little saga will know what I mean.

The welfare of Jumbo has not been the true motive for many of the participants.
 
Yassa said:
I have no idea if what you write here is true and if you are really in contact with Tony Ratcliffe, but if it is, it just proves that neither you NOR Tony R. have ANY IDEA about modern elephant management according to protected contact principles. And then I am incredibly relieved that neither of you have any part in Mila/Jumbo`s care.
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"...... modern elephant management .........." killed a woman.
 
Yassa said:
I have no idea if what you write here is true and if you are really in contact with Tony Ratcliffe, but if it is, it just proves that neither you NOR Tony R. have ANY IDEA about modern elephant management according to protected contact principles. And then I am incredibly relieved that neither of you have any part in Mila/Jumbo`s care.
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both Tony and Frank are circus people so I doubt they do have any experience in Protected Contact (that's obviously not how circus elephants are worked), but the point most people in this thread are making is that Mila/Jumbo is a circus elephant not a zoo elephant and the ideal solution is to get her away from Franklin to PAWS or where-ever as quickly as possible for the sake of her welfare. And as a trained circus elephant the obvious way to do it is not to dick around with an unknown person in Protected Contact, but to get someone who knows how to work her Free Contact to do the job as quickly and smoothly as possible. And that person is Tony. Nobody is suggesting that Tony has anything to do with the elephant's care after she is moved except perhaps to initially help her settle in and get used to the new owners.

Steve Robinson said:
"...... modern elephant management .........." killed a woman.
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Yassa did quite clearly write "according to protected contact principles" after those words, and if Helen had worked the elephant PC as she was supposed to then she wouldn't be dead.
 
Thank you Chlidonias for pointing out that Helen would be alive if she had sticked to protected contact. Protected contact, by the way, works for all elephants - regardless if they are from a zoo or a circus background. Someone who knows about pc training should be able to get Mila ready for the transport in a very short time, without needing extra time to solve the "she has been spoilt" problem. That this is supposed to be a "problem" says everything about the mindset of her former trainers.
 
Chlidonias said:
Yassa did quite clearly write "according to protected contact principles" after those words, and if Helen had worked the elephant PC as she was supposed to then she wouldn't be dead.
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My comment was a reference [OK - an obscure one!] to the number of "modern" PC exponents who just can't resist the temptation to actually go in with their charges on occasion. Certainly Helen had forsaken PC entirely which increased her chances of an incident, but she wasn't the only "modern" keeper in the world to have kidded herself that she was "special".
 
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