European Elephants #1

Nisha

Nisha

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
Can start a new thread with the news that Osnabruck are to receive Asian bulls, Dinkar and Nuka from Hannover next week in place of the family group from Emmen who failed there TB tests.....

Osnabruck's remaining African bull, Tutame is due to go to Hodenhagen in the next few days. From there (pending red-tape etc) he will eventually go to Granby, Canada
 
Nisha said:
Can start a new thread with the news that Osnabruck are to receive Asian bulls, Dinkar and Nuka from Hannover next week in place of the family group from Emmen who failed there TB tests.....

Osnabruck's remaining African bull, Tutame is due to go to Hodenhagen in the next few days. From there (pending red-tape etc) he will eventually go to Granby, Canada
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Another missed opportunity for the African elephant breeding programme :( Unless we can expect return traffic of unrelated bulls back into Europe from the SSP)! Suprisingly, this programme remains a failing entity in Europe whereas the more aged Asiatics programme is going from strength to strength thanks to diligent and continuous sound genetic management by the solid studbook keeping institution managing this EEP (yes, Rotterdam-Blijdorp Zoo and staff).

In the last few years, we have lost this young bull, the Dresden born and even unrepresented juvenile bull ... both to the SSP and several breeding bulls have recently died. It is certainly far from helping us build up a sustainably managed population of African elephants in Europe.
 
European Elephants

Haven't Howletts/Port Lympne been producing surplus African bulls? Or did they go to Africa as I believe was suggested?
 
Nuka turned three this weekend, Dinkar will turn three this August! Dinkar was not fully weaned, he was still nursing every day till he was transferred to Osnabrück. I'm pretty upset that it is allowed under the cloak of EEP to take away such young elephant kids from their mothers and move them to another zoo. :( In Austria, it is illegal to seperate ele calves under the age of seven years.
 
Jola said:
I'm pretty upset that it is allowed under the cloak of EEP to take away such young elephant kids from their mothers and move them to another zoo. :( In Austria, it is illegal to seperate ele calves under the age of seven years.
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I think it is scandalous.:mad: Even six or seven years is way too young IMO but I know quite a few zoos move bull calves at that age as they need the space etc.
 
Budi departed Antwerp yesterday around 2 PM en route to Denver

a bull elephant from Spain will soon arrive in Antwerp to provide Ming Jung with company.
 
KEEPER said:
African or Asian bull?
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Asian bull and a direct genetic loss to the European population (as little / no founder representation)! That is why I am so sad to see this one go. :( There were plenty of good alternatives for the US SSP population (which would extend their bloodlines and somehow overcome the serious lack of bulls) that would benefit both. As it stands too few and quite a few related bulls reproduce in Europe now and we need to diversify (if there is such a thing) the founder representation over more not well - and non-represented bloodlines.
 
Osnabruck's former African Bull, Tutame has now left his temporary home at Serengeti Park for Granby, Canada
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Asian bull and a direct genetic loss to the European population (as little / no founder representation)! That is why I am so sad to see this one go. :( There were plenty of good alternatives for the US SSP population (which would extend their bloodlines and somehow overcome the serious lack of bulls) that would benefit both. As it stands too few and quite a few related bulls reproduce in Europe now and we need to diversify (if there is such a thing) the founder representation over more not well - and non-represented bloodlines.
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How is he a loss?...
Alexander has ten other offspring living in Europe (3.8) not to mention Motek has an additional (5.4)- with (0.2) living in America.... Then Ramon's lineage consists of two other bulls- one of which is actively breeding.
I think Budi was a terrible option- honestly- his line is already represented in America... With four of Motek's grandsons and a cow which is the result of sibling inbreeding (Alexander x Lilly)...

Who would you suggest for future US imports? I'm sure in the coming years as the US population breeds successfully you will witness reciprocation.
 
Asian Bull, Luka has arrived at Osnabruck from Terra Natura this week
 
...and another Asian transfer from Spain - Bull, Kanvar left Selwo Aventura for Antwerp
 
loxodontaafrica said:
How is he a loss?...
Alexander has ten other offspring living in Europe (3.8) not to mention Motek has an additional (5.4)- with (0.2) living in America.... Then Ramon's lineage consists of two other bulls- one of which is actively breeding.
I think Budi was a terrible option- honestly- his line is already represented in America... With four of Motek's grandsons and a cow which is the result of sibling inbreeding (Alexander x Lilly)...

Who would you suggest for future US imports? I'm sure in the coming years as the US population breeds successfully you will witness reciprocation.
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OK, I did not know that the genetic line of Alex's father was already so well represented within the SSP. But where does Ramon come into your equation? :confused:

I suppose some of the Emmen herd males' would be better (and which as far as I know was planned for .. previously). I am afraid there is few other elephant males available at this time that the EEP might be willing to part with (f.i. the Paris, Kobenhavn and - current - Hannover lines have not yet seen a good breeder in the next generation with good representation).
 
Budi`s genes are also well-represented from Ramon`s side - Ramon has 3 living daughters (Dina, Yasmin, Indra - all 3 breeding with more calves to come in the future), and 2 sons, one who is already breeding with 2 living calves and likely 2 more on the way (Timber) and one (Max) who will most likely breed in the future. Ramon`s genes are not yet over-represented, but well-enough-represented so that Budi is not a loss for the EEP genetically.

You are right that there are pretty much no over-represented bulls in the asian elephant EEP yet - in my opinion not even the Emmen calves, because a) they are from 6 different wildborn females, and that the bulls (Radza or Naing Thein) have a lot more offspring, doesn`t mean the calves aren`t important from their mother`s side, and b) there is not a lot of breeding in the second generation from Emmen born elephants yet, like with the Hannover calves. I think Ananda - who was originally scheduled to go to the US too - is actually more important for the EEP then Budi, because none of his siblings from either his fathers nor his mothers side has yet bred. Gandhi from Kopenhagen (now Heidelberg) would have been a pretty good candidate too, with 2 siblings (Irma and Chang) with a lot of offspring, but he may have some health problems (unexplained pain in his hind legs) that would make him a bad candidate to travel overseas. All in all, I`m happy that only one bull left...
 
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