Gorilla baby
- Thread starter zooman1
- Start date
The image is extermely powerful and sad. For those that are unable to buy the wonderful publication that is the Sun newspaper here is the link....
Ape mum's agony as baby dies | The Sun |News
Ape mum's agony as baby dies | The Sun |News
The photo and the story was also on the front page of the Independent. Their story was inevitably more detailed, but they haven't archived the photo.
Mourned after being rejected: baby gorilla at heart of zoo row - Europe, World - The Independent
Alan
Mourned after being rejected: baby gorilla at heart of zoo row - Europe, World - The Independent
Alan
This would surely add more stress to her! Also totally unnecessary! Let her mourn her loss. Not stress her more.
Sometimes they carry a dead baby around until it starts to decompose. If I were a zoo visitor I'd prefer not to see that.
not really sure what would be the best thing to do i did think that taking it away could stress the mother out more and maybe she would not breed again but then you can not leave it to long as like you said it will start to rot im just glad im not the one to make the decision
taun
Well-Known Member
Keeping her off show for the time being would be the best option, to let her have some peace and hopefully she will then let go.
Removing the baby a.s.a.p. is the simplest option- extremely unlikely to affect the mother longterm and she will resume oestrus again. They probably decided to risk leaving this baby with her because it was a male and therefore (if she proved neglectful) it wasn't so important if it died. Sounds callous but in reality its a sensible decision to make, giving the mother added experience and avoiding yet another handraised male. Neither is it that rare for an infant to die- this one just happens to have been featured by a newspaper.
The implication(as reported by the press anyway) is that the mother was neglectful with both her infants and the baby wasn't getting sufficient nourishment from her. Holding on to the body like this indicates at least a strong maternal instinct. The baby may have died from something other/as well as neglect/malnourishment.
The implication(as reported by the press anyway) is that the mother was neglectful with both her infants and the baby wasn't getting sufficient nourishment from her. Holding on to the body like this indicates at least a strong maternal instinct. The baby may have died from something other/as well as neglect/malnourishment.
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Meaghan Edwards
Well-Known Member
Very sad 
I think you'll find its a fact that many zoos are reaching a stage where any more males in the population- except from otherwise low-represented lines- are just not wanted as there will be major problems placing them in the future- bachelor groups, Gorilla Haven etc can sadly only deal with so many.
There have been 2 zoos in Germany where young gorilla females had trouble raising their infants in the last years - Heidelberg and Münster (and Berlin, but that is a different story). And in both zoos, the zoos took the female babys away and rescued them, while the males were left with their mothers and did not survive.
Heidelberg - male gorilla born to very young Chuba in 2002. She did not take proper care of him, but he was left with his mother. When he was injured he was taken away, the vet attended him and then he was given straight back to his mom. He died being 3 months old. Chuba`s next baby was a female, Kissa, born 2004, and Chuba took better care of her then she did the first time. However, when Kissa got sick, she was taken away from her mother and she is now raised in the gorilla kindergarten in Stuttgart. Chuba is since then on the pill to learn mothering behavoir from the female of teh group who is raising her baby before getting pregnant again.
When the second young female of the group, Doba, gave birth in 2007, she lacked milk (I think) and the - female - baby was removed for handraising. She has been named Kiki and she stayed in Heidelberg, in the hope to integrate her into the gorilla family. She is having contact with the other gorillas over the fence since many months.
In Münster - the first gorilla infant born there was a female (Mary), and her inexperienced mother wasn`t looking after her that well. She was left with her mother but died about 4,5 months old. The second baby, born by the other young female, also a female (named Mary II) was removed after a few weeks and is now looked after in the Stuttgart Kindergarten. The third and fourth infants (one born to each young female) were both males and they were left with their mothers... one just died, the other one seems to be doing well.
It seems that male and female infants with not-so-skilled mothers are indeed treated differently. Not that I am condemming that; it is very necessary that young females get the possibility to make mistakes and learn from then even if this means the death of a gorilla baby.
Heidelberg - male gorilla born to very young Chuba in 2002. She did not take proper care of him, but he was left with his mother. When he was injured he was taken away, the vet attended him and then he was given straight back to his mom. He died being 3 months old. Chuba`s next baby was a female, Kissa, born 2004, and Chuba took better care of her then she did the first time. However, when Kissa got sick, she was taken away from her mother and she is now raised in the gorilla kindergarten in Stuttgart. Chuba is since then on the pill to learn mothering behavoir from the female of teh group who is raising her baby before getting pregnant again.
When the second young female of the group, Doba, gave birth in 2007, she lacked milk (I think) and the - female - baby was removed for handraising. She has been named Kiki and she stayed in Heidelberg, in the hope to integrate her into the gorilla family. She is having contact with the other gorillas over the fence since many months.
In Münster - the first gorilla infant born there was a female (Mary), and her inexperienced mother wasn`t looking after her that well. She was left with her mother but died about 4,5 months old. The second baby, born by the other young female, also a female (named Mary II) was removed after a few weeks and is now looked after in the Stuttgart Kindergarten. The third and fourth infants (one born to each young female) were both males and they were left with their mothers... one just died, the other one seems to be doing well.
It seems that male and female infants with not-so-skilled mothers are indeed treated differently. Not that I am condemming that; it is very necessary that young females get the possibility to make mistakes and learn from then even if this means the death of a gorilla baby.
I prefer this approach where possible to the Stuttgart 'Kindergarten' option- unless the babies that are sent to Stuttgart now have any contact with the adults there?
No they havn`t; the breeding group is completely seperated from the "Kindergarten groups". I think that is a big mistake and the next mistake is that the hand raised infants are sent to zoos with family groups way too late (3,5-4 years old). And the male infants usually go to bachelor groups so they never get to live in a family group and never get a chance to learn how a silverback behaves towards females and young. I am not aware that any hand-raised male raised who had grown up in a bachelor group ever bred later in life....
I've raised this before, but wasn't the Stuttgart kindergarten going to be closed down, or reorganised so that handraised babies could have contact with the zoo's own adult Gorillas? Maybe this was just 'talk' ?
Its correct that juveniles of 3-5 years which have never seen an adult gorilla can't be properly socialised if the only contact they have is with other infants. And like you say, some young males that move straight into bachelor groups may never have seen an adult female in their lives...
I too can't think of a handraised male from a bachelor group which has bred yet. Mambi, Richard, Asato, Awali, Mapema & Damisi from Paignton have all moved to 'breeding' groups- Richard, Asato, Mapema have all bred and were mother-reared, Damisi, also mother-reared, is mating while Awali (handraised) at Barcelona is fixated on keepers apparently.
I wonder if Mambi (also handraised) will breed with Fossey at Valencia. He had poor social skills at Paignton but is now an impressive dominant-type male. We shall see...
Its correct that juveniles of 3-5 years which have never seen an adult gorilla can't be properly socialised if the only contact they have is with other infants. And like you say, some young males that move straight into bachelor groups may never have seen an adult female in their lives...
I too can't think of a handraised male from a bachelor group which has bred yet. Mambi, Richard, Asato, Awali, Mapema & Damisi from Paignton have all moved to 'breeding' groups- Richard, Asato, Mapema have all bred and were mother-reared, Damisi, also mother-reared, is mating while Awali (handraised) at Barcelona is fixated on keepers apparently.
I wonder if Mambi (also handraised) will breed with Fossey at Valencia. He had poor social skills at Paignton but is now an impressive dominant-type male. We shall see...