Taronga Zoo Gorilla Troop

[Pertinax]

Frala has two adolescent sons and for the first time is in the strongest position within the troop. She is likely taking advantage of this after years of being on the bottom of the pecking order. Descriptions of her on the website attribute her abrasive personality to her low ranked position and exclusion by the mother and daughter Mouila and Kriba.

Interesting that they mention 'Frala's' 'abrasive personality'. As long ago as when they were still at Apenheul before travelling to Sydney, I remember watching a T.V. programme about the group- in describing their various personalities, when he comes to Frala, the keeper says 'Frala is a bitch really...'

 

[Pertinax]

Had Melbourne not been planning to import a new male, I would have said bring back Mbeli and had the Taronga troop: Kibali, Frala, Mbeli and Kimya.

Depending on what other moves they have planned Taronga might still ask for her back to make up the numbers, now they have a new male who isn't related to her. The new male at Melbourne would still have three(?) potential partners- G.Anne, Julia, Jumanji. (Yuska being probably out of the breeding stakes now)

 

[Chimo]

There would only be any point in seperating them like that if Kriba had resumed oestrus periods. Both mother and daughter would probably find it pretty stressful too.

Some males will accept a young unrelated female of(say)3 to 5 years old, others will persistently try and reject her from their group, as not being of any interest to them breeding-wise. Its very much an individual thing I think.

Sorry everyone, I should have explained my post better. I meant one option is to keep Kriba (and Kipenzi) separate from Kibali until Kipenzi is of breeding age. The option of introducing Kriba to Kibali alone would only occur for a couple hours a day when Kipenzi was old enough to handle the separation. Considering all this, I think the idea of Mouila, Kriba and Kipenzi forming a new breeding group at Mogo could be the best way to go. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Chimo]

Interesting that they mention 'Frala's' 'abrasive personality'. As long ago as when they were still at Apenheul before travelling to Sydney, I remember watching a T.V. programme about the group- in describing their various personalities, when he comes to Frala, the keeper says 'Frala is a bitch really...'

Haha that's the most direct way of saying it and from what I've heard from people the best description. 'Abrasive personality' was my way of not offending the more sensitive individuals of the site. Haha, that's interesting to know she was like that even back then. Going by the number of offspring however, Frala has been the most successful. Was this deliberate (eg. contaception administered to Mouila and Kriba) or was it Frala's way of compensating for her low ranked position?

 

[Chimo]

Depending on what other moves they have planned Taronga might still ask for her back to make up the numbers, now they have a new male who isn't related to her. The new male at Melbourne would still have three(?) potential partners- G.Anne, Julia, Jumanji. (Yuska being probably out of the breeding stakes now)

That sounds like a good plan. That way each zoo would have three breeding females and the three at Taronga would have an eqaul ranking, unless Mbeli and Kimya realise they're half sisters and form an overnight alliance...

 

[Pertinax]

Haha that's the most direct way of saying it and from what I've heard from people the best description. 'Abrasive personality' was my way of not offending the more sensitive individuals of the site.

It was quite funny as he was obviously rather reluctant to talk about one his charges that way- but it was the only accurate description he could come up with.

 

[Pertinax]

Considering all this, I think the idea of Mouila, Kriba and Kipenzi forming a new breeding group at Mogo could be the best way to go. Sorry for any confusion.

But remember that Kriba, Mouila and Frala are all in their thirties and forties(Mouila) and may not have many more breeding years left. The future of Taronga's group lies more with the younger females I think- Kimya, Frala's baby Kipenzi-and perhaps Mbeli who is at Melbourne. They may be thinking about that fact also when planning any moves.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Which male will be brought in?

 

[Chimo]

It was quite funny as he was obviously rather reluctant to talk about one his charges that way- but it was the only accurate description he could come up with.

Haha, does she act like that towards the keepers, and her offspring as well, or is that reserved for Mouila and Kriba?

 

[Chimo]

But remember that Kriba, Mouila and Frala are all in their thirties and forties(Mouila) and may not have many more breeding years left. The future of Taronga's group lies more with the younger females I think- Kimya, Frala's baby Kipenzi-and perhaps Mbeli who is at Melbourne. They may be thinking about that fact also when planning any moves.

It really is a complicated situation, I guess the Mbeli and Kimya combination is the best way to go as they are both young females of 10 and 8. Frala at 32 could potentially be the third breeding female but as you point out, she would have a more limited breeding potnetial long term.

Maybe, Kipenzi will stay at Mogo with her mother Kriba and Mouila until she reaches maturity. Then, Kipenzi will go to Taronga and swap with Frala who will join Mouila and Kriba at Mogo. Won't they be pleased to see her again!

 

[Hix]

Haha, does she act like that towards the keepers, and her offspring as well, or is that reserved for Mouila and Kriba?

I remember one of my colleagues at Taronga saying she would hate to have Frala as her mother, or words to that effect.



Hix

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I just realised my omission that the new male is already on site. Does the entire arrangement involve having Kibali stay with a younger group of females and Frala at Taronga?

There have been assumptions made as to the age and the likelihood of the females breeding. Is Kibabu still regularly and successfully mating his females? Any pregancies known in this particular group?

Also I wonder will a fifth facility be included (once Mogo and Orana take part) for the expanding gorilla population in Australia in the medium term?
Or should I put this latter in a general thread on Aussie gorillas?

 

[Pertinax]

Haha, does she act like that towards the keepers, and her offspring as well, or is that reserved for Mouila and Kriba?

I don't know. I just remember his description- I'd never heard a keeper describe an animal like that publicly before.

 

[Pertinax]

It really is a complicated situation, I guess the Mbeli and Kimya combination is the best way to go as they are both young females of 10 and 8. Frala at 32 could potentially be the third breeding female but as you point out, she would have a more limited breeding potnetial long term.

Maybe, Kipenzi will stay at Mogo with her mother Kriba and Mouila until she reaches maturity. Then, Kipenzi will go to Taronga and swap with Frala who will join Mouila and Kriba at Mogo. Won't they be pleased to see her again!

I think that age -wise, the best combination for their future would be the new male with the two younger females (if Mbeli came back) plus Frala, and then adding Kipenzi later on.

That's providing Frala was compatable with the younger male- being much older he might have trouble with her- or they might be fine- they wouldn't know until they tried it. So they might just end up with whatever females were compatable with him.

 

[Pertinax]

There have been assumptions made as to the age and the likelihood of the females breeding. Is Kibabu still regularly and successfully mating his females? Any pregancies known in this particular group?

I imagine he still mates but possibly the older females are being contracepted?

Anyone?

One of Taronga's main problems is the exhibit is quite small- more than say, six or seven Gorillas and it starts to look a crowd. They could be controlling breeding for the time being and only allowing the new young pair to breed.

 

[marmolady]

As far as I know there are no plans to breed from Kibabu while he's at Taronga, so I assume the females are on contraceptives. I can't for the life of me remember where I heard/read it, but I'm sure that the intention was that Kipenzi would be the last infant born into Taronga's current group.

It's a shame that they don't have a larger exhibit, although from the few visits I've had, the gorillas tend to mainly hang around one end of the exhibit, either indoors or close by.

 

[Pertinax]

I can't for the life of me remember where I heard/read it, but I'm sure that the intention was that Kipenzi would be the last infant born into Taronga's current group.

It's a shame that they don't have a larger exhibit, although from the few visits I've had, the gorillas tend to mainly hang around one end of the exhibit, either indoors or close by.

I think I read that too. Kibabu has quite a few children and a lot of other relatives, so it is probably for genetic reasons.

If they were somehow able to cover the outdoors, I'm sure they'd use the whole of it a lot more.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I think I read that too. Kibabu has quite a few children and a lot of other relatives, so it is probably for genetic reasons.

If they were somehow able to cover the outdoors, I'm sure they'd use the whole of it a lot more.

Any chance of another unrelated silverback going into the old Taronga group.

 

[Pertinax]

Any chance of another unrelated silverback going into the old Taronga group.

I'm sure they intend to still have just one group, centred around the new young male Kibali. I really don't think they have the room to run two groups longterm. I had presumed Kibabu and his sons would leave (which they will), giving Kibali all the females-but it seems from reading other posts on here that there may be plans to move some of the three older females also. It seems a pretty complicated situation and not clear yet what will happen.

 

[Chimo]

I think that age -wise, the best combination for their future would be the new male with the two younger females (if Mbeli came back) plus Frala, and then adding Kipenzi later on.

That sounds like a good idea, by the time Kipezi is mature, Frala will be getting on in her years and may leave Taronga with a daughter.