Berlin Tierpark Tierpark Berlin news

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Tim Brown said:
2400 species available for the delectation of over 4million visitors.
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Well, I was in fact addressing Tim Brown and his remarks.
If you other casual visitors to Berlin feel like interpreting me like that, you are welcome, although some of your contributions are simply not correct.
But does it really matter?
As I said, the gap cannot be bridged.
 
Taisha said:
Well, I was in fact addressing Tim Brown and his remarks.
If you other casual visitors to Berlin feel like interpreting me like that, you are welcome, although some of your contributions are simply not correct.
But does it really matter?
As I said, the gap cannot be bridged.
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I'm not sure if any other poster here has ever quoted Oliver Cromwell, but I will. Before the Battle of Dunbar in 1650, he sent a message to the Scots army whose leaders had once been his allies - " Think it possible you may be mistaken".

All civilised discourse stems from that crucial concept.
 
I met Dr. Blaszkiewitz few days ago. He and two his colleagues were visiting zoos of my city and of neighbor cities. What is the reason of their journey?

By the way, Dr. Blaszkiewitz is quite polite man, and he even praised our zoo :D. And he answered all our questions, though some of them could be undesirable.
 
callorhinus said:
I met Dr. Blaszkiewitz few days ago. He and two his colleagues were visiting zoos of my city and of neighbor cities. What is the reason of their journey?

.
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....perhaps just because he wanted to see your zoo! Dr Blaszkiewitz is interested in zoos - which is not always the case with zoo directors!
 
sooty mangabey said:
....perhaps just because he wanted to see your zoo! Dr Blaszkiewitz is interested in zoos - which is not always the case with zoo directors!
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Thats correct-and as a"collector"of animals he is very interested to see much species as possible, nevertheless how they are kept-so he likes Beijing Zoo for example.So the more species, so better the Zoo ! He don't judges a zoo by the only and most important Thing-the qualtiy of the animal exhbits and care of them-only by ist collection. And thats most "Species Lovers"do-they want to see only species-and don't care about how they are kept.

I know, of course,"Gorilla Kingdom"and"Tiger territory"are just names, but this isnt' changing the fact, both species at London Zoo now live in much better conditions than in their former old Cages, and thats what wanted to say with my Statement.

Or do you prefer to see the tigers back in their small Cage instead of a large, natural exhibit ?And also the rest of the old London Zoo ? With two species of elephants and four speices of rhinos in a factory like house with tiny concrete outdoor Yards ?

I belive sometimes, some Zoolovers are wishes back the old times, when Zoos had large"colletions", but kept all their animals in very small enclosures and cages.

But how can that be ? I thought,Zoofriends are also "Animal Friends" and as such, they are indeed interested in the most possible care for them in human care ?

The Frankfurt zoo has kept in the mid 60ty years almost 1000 species-but they have bred just a few of them-especially birds in the Birdhouse-it was full of birds-more than 270 species-now they have only 60 species in it...Just a few have bred, but most birds there died within a few days,weeks or months-the hummingbirds for example. After they have died within weeks, the zoo has easily ordered another 5 kg of Hummingbirds, until they died also...So do you really want to see that again ?

Today, the Zoo is a really good zoo-with less speices, but also a good"collection"with many rare speices-or have you ever thought to see there Aye-Aye, Clouded Rat or Quolls ?

Today, the zoo is keeping less bird in the birdhouse-and is breeding them !

From my Point of view it is possible to show a large collection with a best quality of exhibits and welfare-if the zoo has the space for it. This is not the case for most german Zoos, but Tierpark Berlin has 160 hectares-and despite that, poor exibits and a poor welfare and care for most animals.With a new director, who is interested in Animal welfare and not only in a large collection, Tierpark Berlin could be a great Zoos-but he isn't it yet, but maybe in the future.
 
Bib Fortuna said:
And thats most "Species Lovers"do-they want to see only species-and don't care about how they are kept.
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Sorry, but that's nonsense! And rather insulting too, but there you go.....

The quality of a zoo, and its size, are two different elements.

I don't think anyone posting on this forum does not care about animal welfare.

Where we differ is in the value we give to a large collection. I - and others - like to see species such as gerenuks coming into Europe. You, and others, feel that this is a distraction, and that, possibly, the presence of such animals inevitably leads to welfare compromises.

A smaller zoo - such as Landau - is wonderful, of course (I think they have very good keepers there who work very hard for the benefit of the animals under their care) but it is not a zoo that is going to lure me half way across the continent on its own. Berlin Tierpark is.
 
Bib Fortuna said:
Thats correct-and as a"collector"of animals he is very interested to see much species as possible, nevertheless how they are kept-so he likes Beijing Zoo for example.So the more species, so better the Zoo ! He don't judges a zoo by the only and most important Thing-the qualtiy of the animal exhbits and care of them-only by ist collection. And thats most "Species Lovers"do-they want to see only species-and don't care about how they are kept.

I know, of course,"Gorilla Kingdom"and"Tiger territory"are just names, but this isnt' changing the fact, both species at London Zoo now live in much better conditions than in their former old Cages, and thats what wanted to say with my Statement.

Or do you prefer to see the tigers back in their small Cage instead of a large, natural exhibit ?And also the rest of the old London Zoo ? With two species of elephants and four speices of rhinos in a factory like house with tiny concrete outdoor Yards ?

I belive sometimes, some Zoolovers are wishes back the old times, when Zoos had large"colletions", but kept all their animals in very small enclosures and cages.

But how can that be ? I thought,Zoofriends are also "Animal Friends" and as such, they are indeed interested in the most possible care for them in human care ?

The Frankfurt zoo has kept in the mid 60ty years almost 1000 species-but they have bred just a few of them-especially birds in the Birdhouse-it was full of birds-more than 270 species-now they have only 60 species in it...Just a few have bred, but most birds there died within a few days,weeks or months-the hummingbirds for example. After they have died within weeks, the zoo has easily ordered another 5 kg of Hummingbirds, until they died also...So do you really want to see that again ?

Today, the Zoo is a really good zoo-with less speices, but also a good"collection"with many rare speices-or have you ever thought to see there Aye-Aye, Clouded Rat or Quolls ?

Today, the zoo is keeping less bird in the birdhouse-and is breeding them !

From my Point of view it is possible to show a large collection with a best quality of exhibits and welfare-if the zoo has the space for it. This is not the case for most german Zoos, but Tierpark Berlin has 160 hectares-and despite that, poor exibits and a poor welfare and care for most animals.With a new director, who is interested in Animal welfare and not only in a large collection, Tierpark Berlin could be a great Zoos-but he isn't it yet, but maybe in the future.
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Again, you start from the principle that wanting to see lots of animals means not caring about their care. Please drop this - it is inaccurate and insulting and is undermining the valid parts of your post. I agree, for example, that Tierpark Berlin does not make proper use of its space, and I share your admiration for Frankfurt's 'balance'.

There are plenty of European zoos that show that a high number of species does not have to mean lower standard of care (Cologne, Frankfurt, Arnhem, Pilsen, and, above all - Prague). Increasing or reducing species does not automatically affect the care quality or even necessarily the available space for the animals - it does sometimes, but certainly not every time.

But as you know everyone's opinions and why they hold them already, I guess you knew I was going to say that. ;)
 
Well balanced reply, but I think the question could rather be turned around by saying if all these zoos can have large collections and look after them in a good manner with great enclosures then why cant the same be said for Tierpark? We already know that there is a lack of money but I'm sure 6 million euros goes quite a long way and then there is money bought in by the paying public, plus I'm sure other money making schemes they have (I seem to remember a zoo lotto on one of my visits).
If and when the good Dr goes we will then have an answer as the zoo will vastly improve or go downhill without him, time will tell.

Maguari said:
Again, you start from the principle that wanting to see lots of animals means not caring about their care. Please drop this - it is inaccurate and insulting and is undermining the valid parts of your post. I agree, for example, that Tierpark Berlin does not make proper use of its space, and I share your admiration for Frankfurt's 'balance'.

There are plenty of European zoos that show that a high number of species does not have to mean lower standard of care (Cologne, Frankfurt, Arnhem, Pilsen, and, above all - Prague). Increasing or reducing species does not automatically affect the care quality or even necessarily the available space for the animals - it does sometimes, but certainly not every time.

But as you know everyone's opinions and why they hold them already, I guess you knew I was going to say that. ;)
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Originally Posted by Bib Fortuna View Post
And thats most "Species Lovers"do-they want to see only species-and don't care about how they are kept.


Sorry, but that's nonsense! And rather insulting too, but there you go.....


I have not the Feeling it is nonsense-it it is just the experience I made by myself with some people-but not all of them. But it sounds hard, I know, maybe it is a Little bit unfair to say that about all People interested mainly in Species and large collections.It is just the Feeling and Impression I got in the past, and I think, is not wrong in all cases.

I know"Species Lover" sounds a Little bit strange, but I think, you know what I mean.

Reducing the collections in the zoos was the only way for their evolution from a old style zoo to a modern place with large, natural enclosures for the animals.Of course it would be great, if not all the zoo had the same species-I also would like to see a bigger variety of species in our Zoos, but as you know, you can't bring in visitors with hoofstock,small cats, guenons or birds....The Tierpark loses visitors, because the park is to boring for them-but it is so easy to make out of it an attractive place for both sides-for the common vistors and the Zoofriends-but you know what or who the problem is...

Both Berlin Facilities have phantastic chances to be much better than they are now-so of course it is possible to keep this large collections at both places, especially the Tierpark has space enough,but I would reduce the collection at the Zoo a Little bit to give the animals there more space.

Of course, I'm also a "Species Lover", but as I wrote here, I prefer to see animals in the best possible way to keep them in human care-( that's why I don't like the Tierpark very much-indeed an impressive and awesome collection, but the exhibits and the husbandry of the animals ar not my imagination of a modern zoo ) Thats what I wanted to say with my Statement.


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chizlit, you are very much underestimating the maintenance costs of running 2 zoological gardens of the magnitude of Berlin Tierpark and Zoo. 6mio is for both zoo collections BTW (allthough technically the Zoo does not receive any subsidies). 6mio really ain't a lot.
 
Wow, a lot of discussion going on about the Tierpark on here lately! It may well be a very important Moment in time for this institution as well. I guess we will soon know if Blaskiewitz stays longer than 2014 or not. The contract runs out in less than a year and the issue probably will be discussed well before (I think we will know more by fall or at least before the end of 2013).

A lot has been written about the quality of enclosures again. I feel this is somewhat of a redundant discussion on this thread with often rather general statements. I once invested a whole lot of time and effort to set up an own thread for the Topic (which in my opinion is not well-located in a news thread) hoping to create a basis for more specific discussions. I would very much enjoy some informed statements on there if anyone feels like driving it any further:
http://www.zoochat.com/109/animal-husbandry-educational-efforts-tierpark-293004/

Well, for said reasons I don't like to repeat myself over and over again on this thread. I will give a brief reply, though. I certainly agree that Berlin Tierpark is far from perfect with regards to some species. I certainly disagree that it is generally a bad zoo when it comes to animal husbandry. And I doubt that any other director would have used the money more effectively for actually creating better conditions for the animals (even if some enclosures may not look overly attractive for the visitor). The number of species in fact has been reduced while many new very spacious enclosures have been created. The rare species hardly ever meant worse conditions for other species (and of course you can't just build huge impressive looking enclosures if you don't have the necessary funds, but you can try to have some very decent enclosures and use them for animals that are rarely kept in other Zoos). With some 100 mio € like each Gelsenkirchen, Hannover and Leipzig had, the Tierpark could have been turned into an amazing zoo (probably the best in Germany), but with the funds available Blaszkiewitz did rather well in my opinion. I do feel, however, that a new era may bring new opportunities as well. But I certainly won't turn ungrateful towards Blaszkiewitz despite his shortcomings - even though some commenting on here would have done a far better job of course! :rolleyes:
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
chizlit, you are very much underestimating the maintenance costs of running 2 zoological gardens of the magnitude of Berlin Tierpark and Zoo. 6mio is for both zoo collections BTW (allthough technically the Zoo does not receive any subsidies). 6mio really ain't a lot.
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Sorry I misread the quote then as I thought the 6 million was just for Tierpark.
 
BjoernN said:
6,5 Mio. are just for the Tierpark.
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Thanks, that's what I thought I read in the first place.
So the follow up question would be do other zoos in Germany get such payouts from their local councils, and if so how do they compare with what Berlin's zoos get?
 
Since this is a news thread it would be best to continue discussions if any here: Animal husbandry and educational efforts at Tierpark
 
Actually we may have news concerning Blaszkiewitz even sooner than I thought. A special meeting is to be held tomorrow. I think they will decide he has to go (either in a year when his contract runs out anyways or - more likely - even sooner)...
 
Suprised! Perhaps shortsighted policy ...?!

I cannot see for the love of good who is capable enough to take his place and stand up to city politicians, bureacrats and boulevard press that is the landscape in Berlin.
 
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