Granted the rhino need a new home, but this doesnt really fill me with excitement. Especially when you consider the number of species they're sacrificing.
Marwell Wildlife Marwell Zoo News 2014
- Thread starter mhale
- Start date
Granted the rhino need a new home, but this doesnt really fill me with excitement. Especially when you consider the number of species they're sacrificing.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Nearly £3M to house White Rhino, Scimitar-horned Oryx and "zebra" (presumably Grevy's)? God knows how much it would cost if they ever aimed to have a species of great ape....
What is really needed is a NEW species, with a NEW enclosure - not a new enclosure for an EXISTING species, people want to see something new and exciting, but this is not really either. They did the same with the Cheetahs.
Giving an existing species a new enclosure is simply not enough, and not going to bring people through the gates. It is much better and easier to advertise a spectacular new species that people have not seen than to attract people with an animal they can already see.
Yes it is good for an existing species to be given a newer enclosure sure, but
it is not really enough these days, they need to take a good hard look at what others are doing, even some of the smaller collections are a great deal more to be progressive and dynamic than Marwell currently is.
Nearly £3M to house White Rhino, Scimitar-horned Oryx and "zebra" (presumably Grevy's)? God knows how much it would cost if they ever aimed to have a species of great ape....
Yep. They are really good at wasting money!
It smacks a bit of a missed opportunity. Has the African Valley ever fully been used to its full capacity?
The collection has gone downhill big time since Mr.Knowles was forced out..
Exactly my feelings, the talk of wooden walkways just sounds very similar to the 'new' cheetah enclosure, which suspiciously resembled the 'old one'!
Especially on wooden platforms and walkways! Why the need for MORE toilets, i can't believe they even bothered to mention it!
Communityzoo
Well-Known Member
The current rhino accommodation is dated and not up to the standards of modern facilities. I imagine a combination of licensing and EEP requirements mean a new, state-of-the-art rhino house needs to be prioritised if Marwell are to receive further animals. While this doesn't automatically have to equate to loss of species, I do think it needs to be recognised that a new build was necessary and, why not make it part of the visitor experience and use it to showcase iconic species associated with Marwell?
I read in the design statement that the new accommodation will allow Marwell to hold around six rhino, surely a welcome commitment to creating a breeding group once more at the park?
I read in the design statement that the new accommodation will allow Marwell to hold around six rhino, surely a welcome commitment to creating a breeding group once more at the park?
When you talk of creating a breeding group at the park Marwell has only ever bred 2 Rhino and they had problems placing them one when to Flamingo land in and all male situation,yes they would not have been allowed any Rhino with the old house,but they only turned to White when the pair of Black from Whipsnade and London died and they could not get Black at that time,seems Whipsnade will be miles ahead now with the new species coming in,as for the Valley field its a bit of a white elephant they need more housing to put animals out in the field and the public keep saying they cant see or get close to the giraffe so now they will go back in the old paddock for most of the time.
I believe the White rhino were initially obtained in order to replace the ill-fated Black Rhino pair, and were until then never part of the Park's original plans- also, and being a bit nit-picky here, unlike the Oryx and Zebra, they actually didn't date from when the Park first opened, as the publicity for all this would indicate.
Personally I can't quite see the importance being attatched to White Rhino as a display here- they are almost universal nowadays in the larger UK zoos and parks and breeding in most of those places that hold them. But along with the Giraffe they are the largest and therefore among the most impressive/major species at Marwell. Just as the Giraffe had expensive new accomodation some years ago(which I do like btw) it seems its the Rhinos' turn now, incorporating them into fancy mixed exhibit-type housing with the Oryx and (some, presumably Grevy) Zebras. I would rather see a cheaper form of upgrade for the Rhinos and other housing and more of this large sum being spent on diversifying and enriching the reduced collection more, but there we are... At least it indicates future planning and that Marwell intends to stay on the map.
And to answer another question, No, the Valley (IMO) still looks very empty and visitors cannot get close to the animals in it if they are away from the cafe area.
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Communityzoo
Well-Known Member
Yes, its true Marwell did not originally embark on working with this species, but appeared to resort to acquiring some when the black rhinos died. While their white rhino may not have been the most prolific breeders, I believe they were successfully breeding the species at a time when the majority of captive white rhino were not breeding - nobody knew why at the time - and for this reason I can understand them considering this an iconic species for the park.
I suppose for the same reason, it may have been harder to consider black rhino given their history with that species.
For black rhino in the Marwell setting … it would mean some poor pasture and wooded up area of the zoo and some hard standing. I do not see that happening sadly … (although I think they would be a great addition to the zoo). They would have to sort out a few husbandry issues as well… .
As for white rhino being common and breeding well in UK zoos (BTW: Whipsnade stopped having calves from 2008 onward), the picture is not at all a happy one … I am afraid. In fact, very few if any collections breed with any consistency. The only exceptions being Knowsley Safari and Blair Drummond.
As for white rhino being common and breeding well in UK zoos (BTW: Whipsnade stopped having calves from 2008 onward), the picture is not at all a happy one … I am afraid. In fact, very few if any collections breed with any consistency. The only exceptions being Knowsley Safari and Blair Drummond.
Yes I accept that but surely virtually every UK place that has a breeding unit of White Rhino has had at least some success nowadays- I can think of quite recent calves at Colchester and Cotswold as well as the several Safari Parks.
Why do Whipsnade's not breed anymore? Is it deliberate or a problem scenario? Do you think there would be better results generally if they could be kept in larger combinations to allow more breeding stimulus within the groups?
I do still think Marwell pouring such a lot of money into a single display for this species(+ the Zebra and Oryx) is rather disappointing in view of potentially what else they could do for new species with that amount.
@Pertinax, as I do not know what is in the long term Masterplan for Marwell - nor do I assume most posters on this forum have any substantive idea -, I cannot make any informed judgments on whether the investment in new exhibit for white rhino (enlarged group), scimitars and Grevy's is too much funds for too few species.
On face value: I do like the design plan for the exhibit and the waterhole thing. I do think it will change the center of Marwell overlooking the Hall (that being my personal perception …).
As stated previously, I would have liked the scimitars with Arabian oryx in separate and improved exhibits on that large lawn south of the current Arabian oryx pen.
As for white rhinos and breeding at Whipsnade, I am happy to answer questions relating to rhinos .. in the relevant thread.
On face value: I do like the design plan for the exhibit and the waterhole thing. I do think it will change the center of Marwell overlooking the Hall (that being my personal perception …).
As stated previously, I would have liked the scimitars with Arabian oryx in separate and improved exhibits on that large lawn south of the current Arabian oryx pen.
As for white rhinos and breeding at Whipsnade, I am happy to answer questions relating to rhinos .. in the relevant thread.
Marwell do not appear to have any real 'masterplan', they just appear to lose species at a rapid rate, whilst coming up with ideas for amending existing exhibits for current species at random intervals.
As someone posted earlier, the african valley is now yesterday's news, even though it has not been completed to a satisfactory level from a visitor perspective.
If they are not going to breed the rhino, £2.8 m is a lot of money that could have been spent on new exhibits for any number of new species and the non-breeding group could've stayed where they are.
Communityzoo
Well-Known Member
Forgive my ignorance, is poor pasture one of the keys to success with black rhino? I had often noticed the pasture at Port Lympne looked more like chalk grassland and very different to rhino paddocks in zoos elsewhere. What would have been the problems for black rhino on more lush areas of grassland such as Marwell and Whipsnade?
Port Lympne and Whipsnade are both on underlying chalk. So the rhino paddocks at each(but not the original hardstand-type Whipsnade paddock- the more recent grass one) must have at least some similarities in their grass growth?
All valid comments, but you have to look no further than Chester Zoo to see how and why one can achieve great and continuous breeding success. Admittedly, grassy … but not only paddocks and good shelters, wooded / sheltered areas and underlying substrate and some hardstand soils. Plus sandy areas and mud wallows ...
I do consider - only - that the old Whipsnade rhino exhibit had something going for it. That these conditions where not met in the newer set-up with them was somewhat deplorable. The latter / same counts for Marwell. Till this day, I find it deplorable both zoos do not hold the species nor in great exhibits and yet they could be.
I do consider - only - that the old Whipsnade rhino exhibit had something going for it. That these conditions where not met in the newer set-up with them was somewhat deplorable. The latter / same counts for Marwell. Till this day, I find it deplorable both zoos do not hold the species nor in great exhibits and yet they could be.